Calculating Multi Rail position shots

It's Simple

Look at the last rail coming in and then work backwards. Adjust stroke and spin to shorten or lenghten the angle if needed due to traffic or any obstacles such as a side pocket. Pocket pool.... good position is a reasonable distance and land on the right side of the ball. 3 cushon you need to hit the second ball or you sit down.
Learn 3 cushion and you will own the cueball and angles..There will be nothing you can't do with the cueball and never an angle you can't see.
You can use a system after you learn to do the above.
This comes with a guarantee.
 
Regarding the orginal post, you never want to have to use a diamond system to get 2 or 3 rail position. When you're sending the cueball a great distance, you want your end-zone to allow for a variety of results and here's why. First, as stated several times, no two tables play exactly alike. Your best bet is getting a general understanding of how your home table (whatever table you call home) plays and using that as a guide. But, you have to understand, any amount of time you devote to learning how the diamonds connect is mildly worthless once you go to another room with a different batch of tables.

In the end, diamonds on a pooltable are very rarely used. They're helpful for kicking. I never use them for position.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I don't think I've ever seen a pool player in my life count diamonds for cb position.
Click to expand...

Do you consider Buddy Hall a pool player? He uses and teaches the clock system which is entirely based on the diamonds to find where the cue ball will end up. :eek::)

Typically it's not noticed because many pool players would know where a spot will take them to 2 or 3 rails and then they adjust longer or shorter depending on their cue ball needs, but they are counting diamonds to make the adjustment. Grady Matthews use diamond systems all the time and teaches them, but he simplified it to find a specific starting point than adjust.

It is important to test any new table to see if it plays right on what you know, longer or shorter before you start a match. Even if it's by feel, you use the diamonds to make adjustments. It's well worth your while to learn a few systems.

Dave
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Regarding the orginal post, you never want to have to use a diamond system to get 2 or 3 rail position. When you're sending the cueball a great distance, you want your end-zone to allow for a variety of results and here's why. First, as stated several times, no two tables play exactly alike. Your best bet is getting a general understanding of how your home table (whatever table you call home) plays and using that as a guide. But, you have to understand, any amount of time you devote to learning how the diamonds connect is mildly worthless once you go to another room with a different batch of tables.

In the end, diamonds on a pooltable are very rarely used. They're helpful for kicking. I never use them for position.
Click to expand...

Don Feeney: The Diamond System Simplified DVD. Describes how to use the Diamond Systems for position in detail. The fact that I don't personally use chop sticks dosen't mean that they aren't usefull to others. Just Sayin.
 
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Rhale100 said:
Don Feeney: The Diamond System Simplified DVD. Describes how to use the Diamond Systems for position in detail. The fact that I don't personally use chop sticks dosen't mean that they aren't usefull to others. Just Sayin.
Click to expand...

Please feel free to diagram a shot illustrating the need for the diamond system in position play. That's much more effective than talking about chopsticks.
 
This is the kind of thread that is useful

Jeez-guys....lighten up.

I was about to post that this is the kind of thread that is interesting and useful.

Because it is.

I was for the first couple of pages-really good discussion and references to go to for those that want to learn more.

And then.....

I'm not knocking either of you guys..I'm just frustrated that good topics derail and/or go south too quickly constantly.:angry:

OK, I'm done.

Fire away, I'll duck
 
3RAILKICK said:
Jeez-guys....lighten up.

I was about to post that this is the kind of thread that is interesting and useful.

Because it is.

I was for the first couple of pages-really good discussion and references to go to for those that want to learn more.

And then.....

I'm not knocking either of you guys..I'm just frustrated that good topics derail and/or go south too quickly constantly.:angry:

OK, I'm done.

Fire away, I'll duck
Click to expand...

Point taken :wink: Iv'e been known to act like a dick at times. I accept that..................
 
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3RAILKICK said:
Jeez-guys....lighten up.

I was about to post that this is the kind of thread that is interesting and useful.

Because it is.

I was for the first couple of pages-really good discussion and references to go to for those that want to learn more.

And then.....

I'm not knocking either of you guys..I'm just frustrated that good topics derail and/or go south too quickly constantly.:angry:

OK, I'm done.

Fire away, I'll duck
Click to expand...

I wasn't here to get into an argument. This is an age-old debate between those that feel and those that calculate. Obviously there's going to be evidence supporting both. Admittedly, I've spent a great amount of my life playing competitive pool and can say a lot of the game has become second-nature for me. With that said, there are very few moments where any system I've encountered was more consistent than my instincts.

Nonetheless, I think there's still a lot to learn from many of the posts here. For one, Creedo posted an excellent video by Eckert about how an object ball sitting on the foot-string will share a two-rail parallel point with the head-string. Now, if you watch the video closely, you'll see that Eckert rarely hits the head-string precisely as intended BUT the fact he's paying attention to it and he's always close is valuable information to have.

My concession here is, I think it's important to pay close attention to how the cueball crosses key points. This applies to the feel-player and the calculator. It will clue you in on all types of shots involving a rail. This is valuable when you have to quickly adjust to a table you're unfamiliar with and could help serve as a useful reference when you're not comfortable trusting your instincts. Eckert's tip is also a fast and easy calculation so that it won't disrupt your rhythm of play. I still remain a feel-player and believe that as you continue to improve, many systems that players use for aiming or positioning will look more like training-wheels than revealed secrets.


In regards to 3-cushion, I've only spent a handful of evenings playing the game. I have a high run of 4 so by no means am I any expert. I do know, having discussed the game at great length with accomplished players in the area, there is a great deal of feel is involved in the game. 3-Cushion players rely on diamonds more than pool players do but in the end, it's their instincts that carry them through the decision on how to play a shot. The bended follows, masse shots, massive draws and powered 6-railers are all taking advantage of an imagination that has been fed countless hours of play and study. Trust me when I say this, no pool player can read a book on diamond systems and be competent at 3-cushion overnight. Perhaps their learning curve will be sharper only because of their competence holding a cue but that's the only real advantage they possess over the noob.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I wasn't here to get into an argument. This is an age-old debate between those that feel and those that calculate. Obviously there's going to be evidence supporting both. Admittedly, I've spent a great amount of my life playing competitive pool and can say a lot of the game has become second-nature for me. With that said, there are very few moments where any system I've encountered was more consistent than my instincts.

Nonetheless, I think there's still a lot to learn from many of the posts here. For one, Creedo posted an excellent video by Eckert about how an object ball sitting on the foot-string will share a two-rail parallel point with the head-string. Now, if you watch the video closely, you'll see that Eckert rarely hits the head-string precisely as intended BUT the fact he's paying attention to it and he's always close is valuable information to have.

My concession here is, I think it's important to pay close attention to how the cueball crosses key points. This applies to the feel-player and the calculator. It will clue you in on all types of shots involving a rail. This is valuable when you have to quickly adjust to a table you're unfamiliar with and could help serve as a useful reference when you're not comfortable trusting your instincts. Eckert's tip is also a fast and easy calculation so that it won't disrupt your rhythm of play. I still remain a feel-player and believe that as you continue to improve, many systems that players use for aiming or positioning will look more like training-wheels than revealed secrets.


In regards to 3-cushion, I've only spent a handful of evenings playing the game. I have a high run of 4 so by no means am I any expert. I do know, having discussed the game at great length with accomplished players in the area, there is a great deal of feel is involved in the game. 3-Cushion players rely on diamonds more than pool players do but in the end, it's their instincts that carry them through the decision on how to play a shot. The bended follows, masse shots, massive draws and powered 6-railers are all taking advantage of an imagination that has been fed countless hours of play and study. Trust me when I say this, no pool player can read a book on diamond systems and be competent at 3-cushion overnight. Perhaps their learning curve will be sharper only because of their competence holding a cue but that's the only real advantage they possess over the noob.
Click to expand...

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your total defeat of your
meticulously constructed straw man.

Here are some points, quite obvious points, that you missed by a mile.

NOBODY said, implied, or even hinted that using a diamond system
would do any of the things you have indited it for not doing.

Of course no shot REQUIRES the use of a diamond system to play position.
No shot requires that you know your left from your right to play position,
but it can be handy if you do.

All the info about crossing points, and parallel points, and a gazillion
various other points, can be ascertained and absorbed by the most
inept of beginners. If he can understand and apply a diamond system.

All this with a few microseconds of calculation instead of decades of
practice and developing a "feel"

And MOSTLY, a diamond system is valuable as a tool for learning how to
play position. If you already have the knowledge, you don't need the
system. I never use any system to play position. I don't need one because
I have internalized the information.

But...

When I was learning the game, if someone had taught me how to use
a system, there is no doubt in my mind, I could have learned a lot faster
as well as a lot better.

Dale
 
Hello good thread. I'm certainly no pro or writer. I enjoy Bob Jewett's articles lot of gems in them if you Google his articles he has some on corner 5 and kicking. Dave's videos give a good visual reference with audio explanation.

I think once you learn the principle behind 1, 2 and 3 rail kicking tracks (5 rail track for fun) you are well on your way. Still need to check the table you're playing on, but they work really well.

Corner 5 and plus 2 are good to know, but it seems there is to much variance between tables. I spent a lot of time learning different systems, but the tracks are fool proof.

Two things I've found work for me is I shoot them all with a 1/2 tip above center cue ball (gives me more consistency only use English when I need to change the angle) to give me a baseline and the other is always kick at a speed where good things can happen position or safety.
 
pdcue said:
Let me be the first to congratulate you on your total defeat of your
meticulously constructed straw man.

Here are some points, quite obvious points, that you missed by a mile.

NOBODY said, implied, or even hinted that using a diamond system
would do any of the things you have indited it for not doing.

Of course no shot REQUIRES the use of a diamond system to play position.
No shot requires that you know your left from your right to play position,
but it can be handy if you do.

All the info about crossing points, and parallel points, and a gazillion
various other points, can be ascertained and absorbed by the most
inept of beginners. If he can understand and apply a diamond system.

All this with a few microseconds of calculation instead of decades of
practice and developing a "feel"

And MOSTLY, a diamond system is valuable as a tool for learning how to
play position. If you already have the knowledge, you don't need the
system. I never use any system to play position. I don't need one because
I have internalized the information.

But...

When I was learning the game, if someone had taught me how to use
a system, there is no doubt in my mind, I could have learned a lot faster
as well as a lot better.

Dale
Click to expand...

Actually Dale, when you said, "Spot shot... next" when I asked for a diagram illustrating a need for a diamond system, it led me to believe you were more supportive of using systems. It wasn't a straw man argument but your curt response I was addressing. Perhaps, in the future, you can be as eloquent as your last response.

Honestly, I really don't care enough about you or RHale100 to continue this discussion further especially if every single turn only gets me more red. I offered my opinions and that's all. Good luck with your game.
 
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