California Cue-Makers - No More Ivory......

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Even after I provided you the source of my screen name you still insist on making the assumption I choose to argue against your point because you think I smoke pot.

That's ok buddy, I'm glad I provided you the opportunity to let your inner little b1tch out. :)

Have a great day. :thumbup:

First off the "inference" is from you own uneducated mind. The "green" play on your screen name is whatever you make of it. I was NOT eluding that you should smoke pot BUT now that you've brought it up it does kind of fit! AND NOW MAKE SENSE! LOL! It don't get any better than when you "dis" yourself... GOOD JOB!
 
First off the "inference" is from you own uneducated mind. The "green" play on your screen name is whatever you make of it. I was NOT eluding that you should smoke pot BUT now that you've brought it up it does kind of fit! AND NOW MAKE SENSE! LOL! It don't get any better than when you "dis" yourself... GOOD JOB!

Really....

What other green stuff are you alluding to then when you said this: "Let's try this a different way, STOP smoking that green stuff. You may be able to think a little more clearly and actually comprehend what you read..."

I think you just made yourself my little b1tch
 
I Stopped reading

I stopped reading after the third page of "yeah, but" arguments, but has anyone responded to the original question with a direct answer?
 
I stopped reading after the third page of "yeah, but" arguments, but has anyone responded to the original question with a direct answer?

They'll use elforyn, or another white material. No one is going to move just so they can use a material that they won't be able to ship out of the country.
 
Really....

What other green stuff are you alluding to then when you said this: "Let's try this a different way, STOP smoking that green stuff. You may be able to think a little more clearly and actually comprehend what you read..."

I think you just made yourself my little b1tch

Well lets see since you are an OBVIOUS leftist tree huger, leaves ( not pot...haha), moss, algae, grass ( the regular kind that is..haha) etc.... Get it?
 
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Actually many questions were asked in the original post. I will address a few of them.

I can't imagine professional cuemakers relocating their entire operations solely for the purpose of producing ivory cues. Moving a production facility even on a small scale is a lot of work and even if considered, they would have to do so with some comfort and assurance that the anti-ivory lobby will not be successful in helping to enact further bands in additional states.

What will be hurt IMO are the production of high value ebony and ivory masterpieces at least by cuemakers who reside in the states where ivory bans become and remain law.

As to future values, unless someone has a crystal ball, the future value of any cue can't be accurately predicted, but I can not imagine some of the masterpieces created by the big names like Paul Drexler/PFD Studios, Black Boar, Richard Black, Ernie Gutierrez, to name but a few, falling in value on the domestic market.

An argument could be made that the ivory state ban(s) will have a reverse effect and they will increase in value.
 
I stopped reading after the third page of "yeah, but" arguments, but has anyone responded to the original question with a direct answer?

this whole thread is his answer. What do you think will happen in 10 years.....will there be more people who want ivory in their cues or fewer? What about in 20 years?

Is there anyone who is angry that they can't get a custom cue made with ivory who is under the age of 50?
 
this whole thread is his answer. What do you think will happen in 10 years.....will there be more people who want ivory in their cues or fewer? What about in 20 years?

Is there anyone who is angry that they can't get a custom cue made with ivory who is under the age of 50?

I like your perspective. You make a good point. It does seem to be most often the people over 50 who get indignant when they can't use ivory, and will find all sorts of reasons to justify their greed instead of saying hey, if everyone stopped buying ivory a species may not go extinct.
 
I like your perspective. You make a good point. It does seem to be most often the people over 50 who get indignant when they can't use ivory, and will find all sorts of reasons to justify their greed instead of saying hey, if everyone stopped buying ivory a species may not go extinct.

You mean like young people not snorting cocaine b/c it kills people?
 
Shawn,

Everyone doesn't think like you. It really is that simple.
You are entitled to your beliefs. You are not entitled to force them on anyone else.

And as far as ivory prices going up? I recently made a purchase of ivory. First purchase in over 10 years as I am just getting back to making cues after a 10 year hiatus. The prices were EXACTLY the same as 10 years ago. From the same supplier. One who has turned in several people that tried to sell him illegal ivory. Because he has values and wants to protect not only elephants but the business of legal ivory.

You are involved in a hobby that built itself on ivory. From cues to billiard balls many thousands of elephants were killed. Without the use of ivory from many years I doubt billiards would have survived. It was THE basis for the tools of the game.

I have only purchased ivory from two different businesses. Both have solid reputations and are in full compliance with the law. I wouldn't take illegally obtained ivory if you gave it to me. No exceptions. As I stated before, ivory must be seasoned, for years. Anyone who would make a cue of unseasoned poached ivory will get what they deserve. First a bad reputation, then the legal consequences.

You will never rid the world of criminals. Trying to throw decent law abiding people in with them because they don't share your personal views is pathetic and despicable.
 
Succinct & poignant post

Bravissimo HQ..........your post was spot on and speaks of real world experience & facts about legal ivory's availability. pricing & source reliability.......something that's apparently still foreign to some Azers,
 
You are involved in a hobby that built itself on ivory. From cues to billiard balls many thousands of elephants were killed. Without the use of ivory from many years I doubt billiards would have survived. It was THE basis for the tools of the game.


Early balls were made of various materials, including wood and clay (the latter remaining in use well into the 20th century). Although affordable ox-bone balls were in common use in Europe,[1] elephant ivory was favored since at least 1627 until the early 20th century;[2]:17 the earliest known written reference to ivory billiard balls is in the 1588 inventory of the Duke of Norfolk.[3] By the mid-19th century, elephants were being slaughtered for their ivory at an alarming rate, just to keep up with the demand for high-end billiard balls – no more than eight balls could be made from a single elephant's tusks.[citation needed] The billiard industry realized that the supply of elephants (their primary source of ivory) was endangered,[citation needed] as well as dangerous to obtain (the latter an issue of notable public concern at the turn of the 19th century).[2]:17 Inventors were challenged to come up with an alternative material that could be manufactured, with a US$10,000 prize being offered by a New York supplier,[2]:17 Phelan and Collender.[citation needed] (This would be worth approximately $177,775 today[4].)

Although not the first artificial substance to be used for the balls (e.g. Sorel cement, invented in 1867, was marketed as an artificial ivory), John Wesley Hyatt invented a composition material in 1869 called nitrocellulose for billiard balls (US patent 50359, the first American patent for billiard balls). It is unclear if the cash prize was ever awarded, and there is no evidence suggesting he did in fact win it.[2]:17[5] By 1870 it was commercially branded Celluloid, the first industrial plastic. Unfortunately, the nature of celluloid made it volatile in production, occasionally exploding, which ultimately made this early plastic impractical.[2]:17 Urban legend has it that celluloid billiard balls themselves would occasionally explode during rough play, but no reliable sources have been found that can substantiate this.

Subsequently, to avoid the problem of celluloid instability, the industry experimented with various other synthetic materials for billiard balls such as Bakelite, Crystallite and other plastic compounds.

The exacting requirements of the billiard ball are met today with balls cast from plastic materials that are strongly resistant to cracking and chipping. Currently Saluc, under the brand names Aramith[6] and Brunswick Centennial,[7] manufactures phenolic resin balls. Other plastics and resins such as polyester (under various trade names) and clear acrylic are also used, by competing companies such as Elephant Balls Ltd.[8] and Frenzy Sports.[9]

Ivory balls remained in use in artistic billiards competition until the late 20th century.[2]:17

Or this

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ghNMAw&usg=AFQjCNH5vpHOHlytoPog-iw7KaqBCdg8jA
 
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