call foul after??

Like Lombardi said, 'Winning isn't everything but it's the only thing worth striving for'.

That said, there is such a thing as Moral Integrity.

It's sad to me to think that one wants to 'win' so badly that they would sacrifice their moral integrity.

I guess some have moral integrity & some don't.

I don't think God keeps tally of pool games won, nor Tournament Titles, & certainly not money won.

There is more to win than any of the above.

It sounds corny but I think it is so true. It matters not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.
 
Ethics have no place in competition. Especially since we all operate on different ethical standards. If it is not uniform it cannot apply to the game.

Follow the rules. If the rules don't require you to notify your opponent when he's making a mistake then I would suggest if you want to win....don't tell him. It's your choice to infuse ethics if you wish but don't use ethics as an excuse to make bad decisions.

Forget about all the naysayers who follow some unwritten code of ethics. The reason it's unwritten is because nobody can agree on a standard interpretation.
That's why we have rules.

Listen to the guys who pose questions like:

If you knew a safety was the better shot would you advise your opponent and
if you could see your opponents fundamentals were an issue would you coach him?

Do you think the Dallas Cowboys would spend a time out to prevent their opponent form being penalized for having too many men on the field. Of course not!

Wake up!!!!! This is a competition.
 
Karma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
Wikipedia
Karma means action, work or deed; it also refers to the principle of causality where intent and actions of an individual influence the future of that individual.

What one does or does not give is what one will or will not get.

Just before playoffs in the individual 8 ball money league I'm in, I called a double hit foul on myself that my opponent had obviously not seen.

Just last night in the playoffs my opponent, a friend of the other guy told me I was getting ready to shoot the wrong ball as I had not seen him make a ball after the break as I was getting eye drops from out of my case.

I guess if one does not believe in a higher power than one can do whatever one wants with no apprehension of their actions ever affecting them neither positively nor negatively.

The bottom line is that one needs to make their own determinations & not make that determination based on what others say about it.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Like Lombardi said, 'Winning isn't everything but it's the only thing worth striving for'.

That said, there is such a thing as Moral Integrity.

It's sad to me to think that one wants to 'win' so badly that they would sacrifice their moral integrity.

I guess some have moral integrity & some don't.

I don't think God keeps tally of pool games won, nor Tournament Titles, & certainly not money won.

There is more to win than any of the above.

It sounds corny but I think it is so true. It matters not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.
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Moral integrity? Horse manure. What you are actually saying is, it is your job to help your opponent win by pointing out his mistakes. Absurd, and has nothing to do with sportsmanship or integrity. In fact, it could be considered unsportsmanlike for telling him because you are talking to your opponent when he is at the table. Do you also point out other mistakes he is making just before he makes them? Why not? Doesn't your moral compass go that far? There is a limit to your made up morals? How do you define the limit? You can't, because it has nothing to do with morals.
 
Jeff Rosen said:
Let's go one step further. By the same "sportsmanship" reasoning, if your opponent fails to tell you you're on two fouls, should you concede the game if you get a third foul?
Also, in APA play, if one tells a teammate they're going for the wrong ball, does that count as a time-out?
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You can concede it if you want to. But, it depends on just what rules you are playing by, and if there is a ref present or not. Your objective is to win within the rules. If you are not breaking any rules, there is NOTHING to feel bad about morally or ethically. In fact, under some rules, you would be at fault if you DID say something, and it would cost you that game and another game.

As far as the APA, not going there, their own rules contradict themselves and or are so vague as to not make any sense.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Like I said, I guess some people have moral integrity & some don't.
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O.K., mr. judge, explain where and how it is immoral to follow the rules. What makes it immoral to not tell someone they are making a mistake in the game? Put some kind of definition on it, or you have nothing at all.
 
I need some things 'splained to me . . .

How does the opponent see to call all fouls and sit in the chair and shut up too?

What difference does it make if the opponent calls a foul or not if the call always goes to the shooter without a referee?

Pool is a gentleman's game because it can only be played by ethical people. The rules don't cover playing someone without scruples. I occasionally play someone without scruples and when I do I make their lives a living hell!

In reality we all apply ethics to our pool game. There are only shades of gray, which is why this debate is endless. For myself, informal, gambling or banging, I do tell the other player when I foul or when he is fixing to shoot the wrong ball or pocket. I sometimes let them shoot the wrong pocket just for chuckles just to see how long it takes them to figure it out though, then waive the bet on that game.

In more formal settings, a fairly large tournament, I call fouls on myself until or unless I see my opponent isn't doing the same. Taking it a step further, if my opponent doesn't call blatant fouls on himself that he couldn't have missed he is going to be getting a good view of my ass for a lot of shots because I am going to play shape to be between him and the shot when practical! When I am playing with someone that is playing chickenshit sharking games and such I'll add an occasional head jerk to look at him after the shot when hiding the shot from him. "Foul, what foul? You couldn't see the shot!"

I try to avoid playing people with very low ethics but I have been known to be a "when in Rome" kind of guy too. Most people decide that it is better to play to the loosely defined generally accepted standard of ethics when playing me.

I fully agree that by definition it isn't cheating if you don't break a rule. However I can make it totally impossible to play pool with me and never break a written rule.

Hu
 
I ALWAYS call a foul on my self. I don't wait, I pick up the cue ball and hand it to my opponent, whether he saw or not, because I don't look to see if he saw it.

But, I will NOT stop my opponent from fouling. Not even in league. I will laugh and say,"man, you think I'm that bad you gotta make my balls" ? We usually both laugh as I'm picking up the cue ball for bih. Plus, sometimes I don't know WTF folks are shooting at, I've seen lots of strange things, so I let them do their strange stuff and sort it out afterwards.

I've never had a problem with anyone because I didn't tell them, and I've never cared that nobody ever stopped me from it. Though one person tried to stop me back a few sessions ago, but I told him I know, I'm going to sink his "break out" ball on purpose, and leave him with his cluster.
 
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I would assume your opponent plays a lot of nine ball. Knows how to count. Know just by color what balls to shoot in order. So why would someone shoot the wrong ball. I mean there were at most 5 balls left on the table. Everyone knows to shoot the orange ball before the green. Everyone knows to shoot the 5 before the 6. Your opponent may have done it over a thousand times. So why is he thinking to shoot the 6 before the 5. Pressure or just a mental lapse. Neither is on you. What if it was trying to shoot the 9 before the 8? That's on the player at the table. Sure you can be nice. However if you let them shoot out of rotation and they lose. They may learn from that experience.
 
nine o nine said:
Playing money match 8 or 9 ball and your opponent wants to shoot the wrong ball but you see he's about to make a foul. Do you tell him before or after the shot? I told my opponent in a tourney not long ago to stop as he lined up the 6 but should have been shooting the 5. He thanked me and then beat me...I know it was ethically correct but was I a dumbass since it was a money match (not too much)? Mitch
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I would not tell the player....he is supposed to know what he is doing on the table....a win is a win however it comes....
 
Txstang1 said:
it's funny how everyone always calls a foul . followed by "if i knew you were gonna shoot the wrong ball i would have said something" or " i wasnt paying attention or i would have said something" lulz
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Just yesterday my team mate was talking to me while his opponent was shooting.
He then noticed his oppenent missed a solid while he was supposed to shoot a stripe.

He informed him and then declined to take ball in hand because he (my team mate) felt he
should have been watching and if he had he would have warned the guy.

gr. Dave
 
ENGLISH! said:
Like I said, I guess some people have moral integrity & some don't.
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C'mon Rick, it cannot be an integrity issue if it is not in the rules, why do you think that is exactly?

Cause it's not my job to try and figure out what a player is doing at the table, it's his. Thus, if he shoots the wrong ball, he had a mental lapse, which is part of the game. I've yet to see someone be called immoral for failing to tell a baserunner he missed second base, his fault not mine.
 
Money is not that important to me. Improving my game, the money will come. Can't improve me game if I win by letting someone shot wrong ball, I want to see how good I am wining by out playing the other guy, not by technicalities. Also it makes me feel better about myself to do the right thing when no one else is watching. I sleep better that way.
 
tashworth19191 said:
Money is not that important to me. Improving my game, the money will come. Can't improve me game if I win by letting someone shot wrong ball, I want to see how good I am wining by out playing the other guy, not by technicalities. Also it makes me feel better about myself to do the right thing when no one else is watching. I sleep better that way.
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This is not the first thread about this situation....I guess some of us live in different worlds.

When I compete, I call my own fouls and I will not let my opponent make a mistake on the
score or ball count in my favor....I 'll make it right.

But honorable men ASK FOR AND GIVE NO QUARTER

I don't even want to play with people who would stop their opponent from making a foul....
....or who would accept the same advantage.

Learn to compete.....or stay on the porch.


And I can sleep at night after playing pool
 
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I play with a lot of guys who are 75+. I always tell them if they're aimed at the wrong ball. With one guy, a former Navy 3-cushion champion, we have to point out every "current" and "next" ball on the table. He still shoots pretty well (he'll 3-rail kick his way out of a safe that few others can) but can't make out the colors.

Playing a regular opponent, it would depend on whether I liked the person or not. If he's a good guy, I'd point it out. If he's a jerk, I won't.
 
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