call shot vs no call

Definitely call pocket over call shot...the last thing I want to do is explain that the cue ball is going to bank off the side rail, make contact with my ball, carom off my opponents ball then bounce around the corner pocket before allowing gravity to finally pull it into the dark depths of victory... :rolleyes:

I wish I was THAT good! But in all seriousness, even having to "explain" the shot to my opponent throws me off my routine...I just want to point at the pocket (at most) and shoot...personally, I only like to call my pocket if it isn't an "absolutely evident" shot (and the same for my opponent)...for anyone who questions me on that one, I don't want to play with them...(only exception being BIG money games...).
 
sfleinen said:
I see what you're saying -- in that case, the removal of "I'll go for 'this' ball and 'that' ball simultaneously, taking one or the other" is an unfortunate casualty of the call-ball/call-pocket part of the WPA rules. However, to frame that shot you described as a particularly "imaginative" or "smart" shot is, if you don't mind the returned candor, a stretch. Unless one is so focused on the shot that he/she is ignoring where the cue ball is going (or is a beginning player that has no cue ball control), most players will see that they are going to collide into the other ball, and possibly in a way to pocket that ball as well. A good example is a thin cut shot in the side pocket, where you see that the cue ball is going to collide into a ball lined up for the corner pocket.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you are only considering the shots that are pretty obvious because of how the balls lay, and you are right, any D player would see them. But sometimes you can go for a second "insurance" ball that is not on the cue balls natural path or that would not be obvious in any other way to most players, and you can do it in a way that does not increase your risk on the shot (for making the first ball or in lost position etc) and only has upside. Imagination and knowledge makes the difference on who sees the obvious opportunities, and who comes up with something imaginative yet low risk that would never have even occurred to most others.

sfleinen said:
That's right -- I've heard from both sides concerning the WPA and WPA+ rules. It's kind of split down the middle. A good example of this is the Open 10-ball at SBE; it tends to waffle between WPA and WPA+ each year. Two years ago, it was WPA+. Last year, it was WPA. This year, it was WPA+ once again (obviously due to the PBA influence, but that's another topic).
Click to expand...
I've only ever really heard what people's first choice preference was, but I'm guessing the WPA rules is probably the set that overall the highest percentage of folks will find that they can live with, even if it wouldn't be their first choice. The "strategy" guys get to keep their two way shots, and the "can't stomach the opponents good rolls or slop" guys at least get the slop taken care of.
 
Seeing a pro's face live or on TV when they slop in a shot and even apologize to the viewing audience and their opponent speaks volumes about "all call, all the time."
 
Mole Eye said:
Speaking as a fan, having watched quite a bit of the SBE, the called shot called safety seemed extremely boring. No one dared to try a tough shot, because the consequences were loss of game. Eliminating the two way shot made for a VERY boring game.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Mole Eye said:
Just my opinion, but I like winning on the break. Why penalize the guy that has a big break? I've played plenty of people that the break was the only advantage I had; I sure didn't want to give that advantage away.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that like you alluded to, the preferences here are going to be split between the guys who have a great break, and those that don't. My break isn't particularly good so I have no problem doing away with winning on the break. But even if I try and remove that bias and think about it, I still don't like that the break is such a big part of the game. I want to see extraordinary shot making, pin point position play, and brilliant strategy. I HATE it when I see a match where the guy who was not as good at all three still wins because of his break.

Mole Eye said:
I know the better players like the called shot for obvious reasons- but the fans like the unexpected.
Click to expand...
I don't know that I agree with this statement. As was previously discussed in the thread, the pros (as "better" players as it gets) are pretty evenly split on their preferences.

I don't think it is split much based on skill, but it is more split based on style. To me it seems to be split more along the lines of the freestroker shotmaking type players that don't like to think much, and the slightly more deliberate thinking type players.
 
JAMSGOLF said:
Definitely call pocket over call shot...the last thing I want to do is explain that the cue ball is going to bank off the side rail, make contact with my ball, carom off my opponents ball then bounce around the corner pocket before allowing gravity to finally pull it into the dark depths of victory... :rolleyes:

I wish I was THAT good! But in all seriousness, even having to "explain" the shot to my opponent throws me off my routine...I just want to point at the pocket (at most) and shoot...personally, I only like to call my pocket if it isn't an "absolutely evident" shot (and the same for my opponent)...for anyone who questions me on that one, I don't want to play with them...(only exception being BIG money games...).
Click to expand...

In all seriousness, why would you be in a position to have to do this??
 
JAMSGOLF said:
Definitely call pocket over call shot...the last thing I want to do is explain that the cue ball is going to bank off the side rail, make contact with my ball, carom off my opponents ball then bounce around the corner pocket before allowing gravity to finally pull it into the dark depths of victory... :rolleyes:

I wish I was THAT good! But in all seriousness, even having to "explain" the shot to my opponent throws me off my routine...I just want to point at the pocket (at most) and shoot...personally, I only like to call my pocket if it isn't an "absolutely evident" shot (and the same for my opponent)...for anyone who questions me on that one, I don't want to play with them...(only exception being BIG money games...).
Click to expand...

This what is called here locally as 'call shot'....not 'call pocket'. They expect every little nuance of the shot to be called. If you pocket the ball in the intended pocket, but it didn't happen as you called it, you still forfeit your inning at the table. The basic strategy of this game is to stack as much 'traffic' around the pockets as possible to cause your opponent to forfeit as many innings as possible. It is not conducive to a 'friendly game' of pool...and have seen many fights as a result.
 
ridewiththewind said:
This what is called here locally as 'call shot'....not 'call pocket'. They expect every little nuance of the shot to be called. If you pocket the ball in the intended pocket, but it didn't happen as you called it, you still forfeit your inning at the table. The basic strategy of this game is to stack as much 'traffic' around the pockets as possible to cause your opponent to forfeit as many innings as possible. It is not conducive to a 'friendly game' of pool...and have seen many fights as a result.
Click to expand...

Hi Lisa!

What's funny, is that I asked a bar banger one day why he "likes" these rules. He answered me, "because it's a gentleman's game, and we play with honesty." I was dumbfounded -- nearly with no answer. I could only reply, "but don't you think the 'honesty intent' is going to CAUSE, rather than prevent, more fights?" His reply was, "anyone who doesn't own-up to the honesty of their shot, deserves to be in a fight, because this is supposed to be a gentleman's game, afterall." Again, I was awestruck by this unbelievable answer. I couldn't believe my ears!

-Sean
 
Call Shot:
Players have the option of either calling their shot or calling a safety. Aside from obvious shots, the shooter must specify which ball and which pocket is being called. If a player is shooting a bank, combination or any kind of ambiguous shot, the player must call the shot.

If a player calls a shot and misses, the incoming player will have the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again. No matter how many times a player misses a called shot, failure to pocket that ball legally or wrongfully pocketing the ball in another pocket allows the opposing player the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot again.
I guess I don't know enough about these games. I just feel you can't eliminate luck. Your bad luck is my good luck. Being penalized for something unexpected is good luck for me. I like playing wide open. But a person is a fool if they think luck will win against a pro or good shortshop. At least not in the long run. I say hit the lowest numbered ball and if something else happens keep going or win on the money ball.

What happens if you make the called shot and the 10 which is not called?
What happens if you miss the called shot but make the 10 but is not called?
What happens if you hit a rail or a ball but the ball goes in the called pocket?
What happens if you miss cue but the ball goes in the called pocket?
 
First of all, good topic to start. :D

I agree with the sentiment many have shared about the quantity of luck in the game. Especially at the lower levels, the amount of emphasis placed on 'slop' as a point of contention between parties is vastly overrated. It simply does not occur often enough to be worth all of the hassle, and certainly not worth fighting over. Anyone that relies on slop that much is going to get beat by a player with decent aiming and cue ball control.

The interesting thing about those worrying about slop is that such a luck factor is only considered on the pocketing of the ball. If a ball rolls out of position, it isn't brought up. If you get one of those lucky rolls that loosens or ties up a ball, it isn't brought up. That simply isn't how things work. Luck doesn't isolate itself to potting. Everyone gets the rolls now and then. Rather than worry about such things, I'd rather we concentrate on creating long enough races. If you're worried about the player getting lucky, do what Vegas does........keep them playing. :smile:

Secondly, I'd like to comment on those that have mentioned needing to call every rail, kiss, bank, etcetera. Phil Cappelle in one of his books calls this one of the worst rules (particularly for beginners) and I have to agree. It doesn't do anything but satisfy the paranoid and give excuses to those that need them. The NBA isn't going to fine you for banking in a 3 pointer. Shrug your shoulders, thank your lucky stars, and play on.
 
Pushout said:
In all seriousness, why would you be in a position to have to do this??
Click to expand...

Because I'm not good enough to put myself in my expected position EVERY time...so once in awhile I'd have to call the pocket (e.g. a bank-shot). I think this answers your question... :o

ridewiththewind said:
This what is called here locally as 'call shot'....not 'call pocket'. They expect every little nuance of the shot to be called. If you pocket the ball in the intended pocket, but it didn't happen as you called it, you still forfeit your inning at the table. The basic strategy of this game is to stack as much 'traffic' around the pockets as possible to cause your opponent to forfeit as many innings as possible. It is not conducive to a 'friendly game' of pool...and have seen many fights as a result.
Click to expand...

Yep...that's another big reason why I hate playing "call shot"! An object ball barely kisses off the rail a 1/2 inch before being pocketed and it doesn't count...it drags on, creates arguments over whether it did or didn't...and to be quite honest, most of us aren't THAT good to call every single little maneuver of the balls on the table (we would like to think and hope we are...but in reality MOST - not all - but most aren't that good...)
 
just play one pocket,,,,,,,the target is always known to everyone,,,,,and if a player is good enough to move two or three balls toward his side, get safe on his opponent, and maybe even luck a point in on his hole,,,,,then more power to him I say,,,,,,great shot!
 
The Renfro said:
I prefer call pocket only... The 2 way shot is one of the tools of the games and it allows us to see shots attempted that otherwise would result in a boring safe.....
Click to expand...

I second this, I hate that they take away the 2 way shot.

Dave
 
I think there are 2 aspects of this question - and that's from the pool player/fanatic perspective, and then the casual fan's perspective.
Pool players want to see strategy matches with call pocket/safe because they realize the levels of skill required to do some of the things that happen. We also like to watch one pocket matches and a banks match.
The casual fan wants to see balls made and racks run out, they don't care as much for the nuances of the game at this point in their fandom, perhaps they never will. These people would rather watch paint dry rather than watch 8-12 straight safety plays in a one pocket match. I would draw a parallel to soccer (loosely) in that most parts of the world people appreciate the 'chess match' aspect of the sport, but here in the 'we want more scoring' USofA most people look at it as pretty pointless. :P
It's a delicate balance to maintain, but if you want the sport of pool to flourish in the long run, you have to get the casual fan to tune in and stay tuned in to TV coverage so there can be more matches on TV and more money coming into the sport.
I would say my preferred solution is a combination of the 2 scenarios, call your pocket, but eliminate the penalty for missing. No slop, but no penalty for trying a great shot. As far as the win on the break is concerned....I play in a league where it's not a race to racks format but a point format, and a break win is only worth half of a run out, but in a race format it is rather silly if someone back to back 8 ball breaks in a race to 3 (which I have done in APA)
 
JAMSGOLF said:
Because I'm not good enough to put myself in my expected position EVERY time...so once in awhile I'd have to call the pocket (e.g. a bank-shot). I think this answers your question... :o



Yep...that's another big reason why I hate playing "call shot"! An object ball barely kisses off the rail a 1/2 inch before being pocketed and it doesn't count...it drags on, creates arguments over whether it did or didn't...and to be quite honest, most of us aren't THAT good to call every single little maneuver of the balls on the table (we would like to think and hope we are...but in reality MOST - not all - but most aren't that good...)
Click to expand...

My question was why would you play call shot as you describe it. There are no rules to make you play this way. This is just made up stuff.
 
Pushout said:
My question was why would you play call shot as you describe it. There are no rules to make you play this way. This is just made up stuff.
Click to expand...

Yes...I was being facetious with regards to what a "call shot" game COULD be like...yes...it was all made up. ;)

Jason
 
I don't really like called pocket or especially called safety, and removing 9 on the break as a win is horrible.

Why slow the game down and try to make it boring? You can pretty much see what someone is trying to do when they shoot, and if they do something you didn't expect hey maybe you just learned a shot. :) And if someone has worked on their break enough to get action on the 9...more power to them! That's the game after all.

I used to think players 'slopping' in shots was this big evil thing, but someone pointed out to me once that for average players it doesn't really happen that often. I started paying attention, and really...he was right. It's pretty much a non-factor.


Pushout said:
My question was why would you play call shot as you describe it. There are no rules to make you play this way. This is just made up stuff.
Click to expand...

People play that way in bars all the time.
 
It seems pretty simple to me. If you don't like call shot pool, then play 9 Ball and you're good to go. If you do, play 10 Ball. There is a game for each, depending on your preference.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
It seems pretty simple to me. If you don't like call shot pool, then play 9 Ball and you're good to go. If you do, play 10 Ball. There is a game for each, depending on your preference.
Click to expand...

Good Point! I have been playing a lot of 9-ball lately, so I have a tendency to have my mental blinders on and only "think" 9-ball when it relates to my answering questions... ;)
 
shooteredg said:
I am curious as to what the consensus on this issue would be. I prefer call shot call safe and no wins off the break. This game is so behind on levels of purity its not even funny! How many times do u see a match have the outcome be determined by a lucky safe or !@#$ed winning ball made by accident! Thanx in advance for your responses!
Click to expand...

I think the "purity" level will go up laying your way alright, the purity of the number of arguments anyway. I think pool is a good sport to have the least amount of necessary communication between the players as possible. Anything more than the least amount causes way to many arguments.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top