# Calling Dr. Dave! - "Plus System" for Kicking

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always used the "Plus System" for two rail kick shots, but never knew what it was called. I had watched an APA Dr. Cue YouTube video years ago, and it displayed similar teachings to the Plus System in Dr. Dave's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BsOZ09Nsyg

The plus system is usually taught to be shot from the short rail to the long rail, but I have been practicing shooting it from the long rail to the short rail using stun, rather than using running English. Maybe it's just my dumb luck, but it seems to be working with a fairly high success rate. Well, since I was feeling fairly confident shooting into the long rail first, I realized that shooting this way with running English yields a nearly perfect 3 rail kick shot.

I'm quite positive that I have not discovered anything new, but I'm unsure what the three rail system is called, if it exists.

#### Tony_in_MD

##### You want some of this?
Silver Member
Sometimes the three rail system is referred to as Corner 5

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The plus system is usually taught to be shot from the short rail to the long rail, but I have been practicing shooting it from the long rail to the short rail
It's a numbered system - how do you change the numbering?

pj
chgo

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sometimes the three rail system is referred to as Corner 5

That 3 rail system seemed the same, just with different numbering.

It's a numbered system - how do you change the numbering?

pj
chgo

I'm going to assume I'm using the Corner 5 system, but with the number (1-9) of the Plus System.

Point is, I believe I'm confusing myself and am trying to figure out where.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
That 3 rail system seemed the same, just with different numbering.

I'm going to assume I'm using the Corner 5 system, but with the number (1-9) of the Plus System.

Point is, I believe I'm confusing myself and am trying to figure out where.
I can't picture what you're doing that's like the Plus System. Can you describe in more detail?

pj
chgo

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't picture what you're doing that's like the Plus System. Can you describe in more detail?

pj
chgo

The numbering. One through Nine.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The numbering. One through Nine.
Using the Plus System, half diamonds on the short rail are numbered 1-9 and correspond to the number of diamonds down the long rail (from the CB's starting position) you want to hit.

Where are the numbers 1-9 located for your modified system and how do you use them?

pj
chgo

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Using the Plus System, half diamonds on the short rail are numbered 1-9 and correspond to the number of diamonds down the long rail (from the CB's starting position) you want to hit.

Where are the numbers 1-9 located for your modified system and how do you use them?

pj
chgo

The numbers and diamond locations are the same.

The Corner 5 system makes no sense to me, with the numbering used. I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing the same, just with different numbering.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The numbers and diamond locations are the same.

The Corner 5 system makes no sense to me, with the numbering used. I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing the same, just with different numbering.
The numbering isn't the same for the two systems and the numbers aren't used the same way. If you're trying to equate the two somehow, it's no wonder you're confused.

pj
chgo

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The numbering isn't the same for the two systems and the numbers aren't used the same way. If you're trying to equate the two somehow, it's no wonder you're confused.

pj
chgo

I'm going to make some diagrams of how and where I am aiming to explain what I'm doing. What I'm trying to figure out, is why does it work? (I don't know what system I'm using, if any).

As an example (in diagram 2), if the one ball were in the bottom right pocket (opposite of where it is), and I wanted to kick to rails, I would use the opposite of running English (stun) and aim at the same spot. I tried it for hours and it works; I'm just trying to understand why. If someone could identify what system they think I stumbled upon, then they could further explain it to me.

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#### bbb

##### AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm going to make some diagrams of how and where I am aiming to explain what I'm doing. What I'm trying to figure out, is why does it work? (I don't know what system I'm using, if any).

As an example (in diagram 2), if the one ball were in the bottom right pocket (opposite of where it is), and I wanted to kick to rails, I would use the opposite of running English (stun) and aim at the same spot. I tried it for hours and it works; I'm just trying to understand why. If someone could identify what system they think I stumbled upon, then they could further explain it to me.

in you first diagram (short rail first)
the cue ball is going number 1 to number 6
a difference of 5
so you aim at 5

in the second diagram
you are going from number 3 ish to 9
a difference of 6
why are you aiming at 3???

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
in you first diagram (short rail first)
the cue ball is going number 1 to number 6
a difference of 5
so you aim at 5

in the second diagram
you are going from number 3 ish to 9
a difference of 6
why are you aiming at 3???

That's why I'm confused. I'm not aiming or even looking at 5.
In the first diagram, I'm using the the numbers to find my angle or line. Then shifting over parallel to that line.

The cue ball to the object ball is six diamonds. So if I count six diamonds from the corner, that gives me the line/angle (red line), but the cue ball is not on that line, so I shift that line parallel till I meet the cueball (yellow line). With running English, it does exactly what I want. I'm never looking at 5 or even doing math. I'm just finding a line. This is more or less the same exact thing that the plus system does.

The second diagram, I'm going from 3 to 3, using that line, shifting parallel, and using running English. It seems to work just as well. I just don't know why.

#### bbb

##### AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
in your 2nd diagram if the 1 ball was at diamond 8 where would you aim??

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I'm going to make some diagrams of how and where I am aiming to explain what I'm doing. What I'm trying to figure out, is why does it work? (I don't know what system I'm using, if any).

As an example (in diagram 2), if the one ball were in the bottom right pocket (opposite of where it is), and I wanted to kick to rails, I would use the opposite of running English (stun) and aim at the same spot. I tried it for hours and it works; I'm just trying to understand why. If someone could identify what system they think I stumbled upon, then they could further explain it to me.
I don't recognize your 3-rail system, and it wouldn't work for me. For a 3-rail kick from your bottom right corner (#1) to your upper right corner (#9), I aim at your #3 diamond on the opposite long rail (and adjust parallel for nearby tracks, as you do). Either your rails are much stickier than mine or you're using lots more running English.

Anyway, if your reference tracks are working for you, keep refining them.

pj
chgo

#### Hardtobeat

##### Registered
All of you,have me confused.

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
in your 2nd diagram if the 1 ball was at diamond 8 where would you aim??

I would use a parallel line from 8 to 8.

I don't recognize your 3-rail system, and it wouldn't work for me. For a 3-rail kick from your bottom right corner (#1) to your upper right corner (#9), I aim at your #3 diamond on the opposite long rail (and adjust parallel for nearby tracks, as you do). Either your rails are much stickier than mine or you're using lots more running English.

Anyway, if your reference tracks are working for you, keep refining them.

pj
chgo

Quite possibly. This would be a good conversation over a few beers.

#### Patrick Johnson

##### Fish of the Day
Silver Member
This would be a good conversation over a few beers.
Yeah, that'd clear things up alright. :smile:

pj
chgo

#### Ron Swanson

##### Banned
Someone calls for dr dave and patrick comes running. Awwwww. :wub:

#### bbb

##### AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would use a parallel line from 8 to 8.

Quite possibly. This would be a good conversation over a few beers.

so at what number diamond would your new yellow line be pointing at coming from the cue ball?

#### DAVE_M

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
so at what number diamond would your new yellow line be pointing at coming from the cue ball?

Wherever a parallel line falls on the cue ball.