Can anyone explain this to me?

[dogginda9]

I'm a little disturbed by something and I was wondering if I'm the only one or am I just wrong? First, let me state a few things. I don't begrudge a pool room owner from making a living. Second, I understand there is a big financial investment to make up when you put on a large event. Third, I was out of town so I wasn't even there last weekend. Now, this is what bothered me. A couple of friends of mine drove almost an hour to the Viking Tour Championship to watch a couple of local guys play. When they got to the door, they were told it would cost $25 to watch. They immediately left. I found out it was $10 the first couple of days and then $25 on Sat. and $30 on Sunday. This just seems to be WAY out of line to watch an open event with only a handful of Pro players in it. I could maybe see $5 or so being appropriate. How would a guy with a couple of kids go see a friend play on the weekend? Better yet, what about a players' family? You really couldn't make an exception without pissing people off. There it is. Sorry this went so long

 

[Teacherman]

...Second, I understand there is a big financial investment to make up when you put on a large event.

No you don't.......Have you ever put the money up front and then tried to get it back?........And don't say you understand if you've voted with your feet and left. If you don't like the price, you have every right to leave. But don't go on the message board and complain about it. If you don't have what it takes to watch the match, don't blame someone else.

I don't know the details but the room owner has made a judgement on how many people will show and what price each needs to pay for the owner to come out.

IF he made a good judgement and IF the people pay the fare, THEN he gets even or makes a little.

Whatever the owner put up front is gone. He's the one gambling here. More so than the players.

And it's typical of fans to whine and complain about not enough events but they have no flippen clue what it takes. And usually won't do their part......Yea, joe is a great owner....put up another $1000 to have Sam play Dick.......let's go get a burger up the street......Got any water here?

Remember, the owner had his up front money before the match.

Why should he gamble on cheap ass pool fans, promote the event and then watch them pay and complain, or not pay at all.

You SOB's are the cheapest ass customers on earth.......OR the whiniest bunch of nags. Either one is less than desirable.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'm a little disturbed by something and I was wondering if I'm the only one or am I just wrong? First, let me state a few things. I don't begrudge a pool room owner from making a living. Second, I understand there is a big financial investment to make up when you put on a large event. Third, I was out of town so I wasn't even there last weekend. Now, this is what bothered me. A couple of friends of mine drove almost an hour to the Viking Tour Championship to watch a couple of local guys play. When they got to the door, they were told it would cost $25 to watch. They immediately left. I found out it was $10 the first couple of days and then $25 on Sat. and $30 on Sunday. This just seems to be WAY out of line to watch an open event with only a handful of Pro players in it. I could maybe see $5 or so being appropriate. How would a guy with a couple of kids go see a friend play on the weekend? Better yet, what about a players' family? You really couldn't make an exception without pissing people off. There it is. Sorry this went so long

You should consider the expenses of a player who doesn't cash which, by the way, happens to 75% of the field. The fact is, there are a lot of people that simply don't make money and shell out quite a bit in order to make these events possible. I know when I play in an out-of-town event, I automatically figure $500, assuming my friend is driving, we're sharing a hotel room, the tournament entry is $150 and we spend no more than two nights there. With that said, if I don't make more than $500 in winnings, I'm losing money and that's for a cheap event. Sadly, I'm fully aware that I could be playing the greatest pool of my life, get a tough draw and find myself in the stands.

With the exception of the most successful players, nobody is making money, not even the poolrooms. Poolrooms typically shell out quite a bit in added money and will forfeit several days of business in order to make the event possible. When they charge an admissions fee, they're not even trying to break-even. They're just trying to minimize their losses.

I'm sorry you feel $25 admission is excessive. Perhaps the next time you attend a baseball game, you can consider how much was spent on the day and how much you enjoyed your proximity to the action and your interaction with the players. All I'm trying to say is, everyone is spending money because without support from all pool-players, fans & business, there simply wouldn't be professional pool (men or women).

 

[Teacherman]

If you are a player in a tournament, that the owner has put up $500 to $3000 (or more), and you don't eat every meal there, pay some pool time for practice, and have a few drinks/sodas you deserve to be barred from all events.

If you are a fan going to watch the same tournament and you don't spend a minimum of $25 each day, you should be barred.

At that point, your committment level is in the same ball park as the room owner.

Until the players committment level reaches that of the room owner, events are not feasible.

 

[Cannon]

If you are a player in a tournament, that the owner has put up $500 to $3000 (or more), and you don't eat every meal there, pay some pool time for practice, and have a few drinks/sodas you deserve to be barred from all events.

If you are a fan going to watch the same tournament and you don't spend a minimum of $25 each day, you should be barred.

At that point, your committment level is in the same ball park as the room owner.

Until the players committment level reaches that of the room owner, events are not feasible.

Teach, not talking tournament time here but say you have a customer who comes in on a regular basis. He eats, has a few drinks, maybe plays a little pool, behaves himself and tips well. One day he comes in for a quick cup of coffee. What does that cost?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

If you are a player in a tournament, that the owner has put up $500 to $3000 (or more), and you don't eat every meal there, pay some pool time for practice, and have a few drinks/sodas you deserve to be barred from all events.

If you are a fan going to watch the same tournament and you don't spend a minimum of $25 each day, you should be barred.

At that point, your committment level is in the same ball park as the room owner.

Until the players committment level reaches that of the room owner, events are not feasible.

Teacherman, whenever I go away for an event, that's exactly what I do and I tip well on top of that. I'm not complaining. I'm simply saying that the expenses are passed around to everyone.

 

[Egg McDogit]

dang dude it's not like your financial livelyhood as an
owner depends on recovering tournament costs/losses. I'm
sure that one of the reasons you host tournaments is to
keep your room on the map and to bring in new players.

The players don't have a responsibility to spend $x at your
room because you're having a tournament. You know exactly
what to expect...bunch of guys show up drinking sodas and
asking for free refills. Maybe eating some slimjims and
chips. That's just the way it works. Deal with it or
stop having tournaments.

To the other dude, if you drove 2 hours, why not just shell
out the $25? I agree it's a lot..but it's the owner's call.
Maybe he wants to keep people who aren't serious enough to
shell out a spectator fee out. Or maybe he just feels like
he can make money that way. His room, his call...sucks for
you, but oh well

peace
-Egg

 

[Teacherman]

Teach, not talking tournament time here but say you have a customer who comes in on a regular basis. He eats, has a few drinks, maybe plays a little pool, behaves himself and tips well. One day he comes in for a quick cup of coffee. What does that cost?

Did I put up $3000 for a tournament that day?

 

[Teacherman]

I am so glad you brought up BASEBALL, the biggest ripoff of all time. Then comes basketball and then football. Salaries have gotten so high I refuse to watch pro sports. It is MY WAY OF PROTESTING. When you consider the baseball players going on strike, I say bring in the minor leagues and pay them less. So what if the quality goes down. At least we will be rid of those too numerous to speak of whinning cry babies who never seem to make enough money. I will be that if we all simply do not watch pro sports it will come all toubling to the ground and they would have to start all over again. The power is in your hands folks. Just spread the word: watch no more sports, except for pool LOL. Sad but true. Pool players don't get paid enough money.

Now having gotten that off my chest, I would have done just what your friends did, walk from the tournament, as fast as I could.........simply because there is so much FREE action going on that I consider the entry price a rip off. For example, free CAT tours. Of course I live in a big city and others may not be so fortunate. I would not hesitate to take my kids to an APA league night as an alternative. Eat a burger and enjoy. Although others may have considered it a bargain or whatever, it is a free country and we all are driven by the law of supply and demand. The market will take care of itself. I think the poster above who called you cheap owes you a serious apology - it is your perogative to consider how you spend your money. For example, how do we know that that poster would not have spent $50 on beer while your crowd on the other hand may have bought school books with the money saved? How do we know that he didn't go crawling back to his little trailer in the woods with no money, and pull out his bottle? Sh*t, he was probably in the bottle when he wrote his thread. Then I have to ask myself what I am doing tyring to educate a bonehead anyway.

Cheers, WW

At least you're not ashamed of your cheap ass image. Just don't complain if there are few events for you to attend.

 

[Cannon]

Did I put up $3000 for a tournament that day?

I meant when there is no tournament going on.

 

[Teacherman]

dang dude it's not like your financial livelyhood as an
owner depends on recovering tournament costs/losses. I'm
sure that one of the reasons you host tournaments is to
keep your room on the map and to bring in new players.

The players don't have a responsibility to spend $x at your
room because you're having a tournament. You know exactly
what to expect...bunch of guys show up drinking sodas and
asking for free refills. Maybe eating some slimjims and
chips. That's just the way it works. Deal with it or
stop having tournaments.

To the other dude, if you drove 2 hours, why not just shell
out the $25? I agree it's a lot..but it's the owner's call.
Maybe he wants to keep people who aren't serious enough to
shell out a spectator fee out. Or maybe he just feels like
he can make money that way. His room, his call...sucks for
you, but oh well

peace
-Egg

Unf****** believable. The poster boy for what's wrong with pool just showed up.

Don't worry about me. I don't hold these types of events. Financial considerations is priority one for a business owner. Bills need to get paid.

For me to run $5000-$6000 of business out of my place (business I would've done without the tournament) and then put up $3000 to host a tournament, then hope I get enough players and hope I get enough fans, it's plain stupid. Especially when I know that IF I get 64 players or more then I still can't make it because they'll order water and go down the street and spend $4 at McDonalds instead of $5 at my place.

Do you know what an owner has to gross on the weekend to recover his $3000?..................$8,000-$10,000. Impossible. By the time he pays for the cost of product and other overhead he may end up with $3000 out of the $8-$10,000. AND, that just breaks him even on the $3000 he put up. What about the $5000-$6000 of business he sacrificed to hold the tournament?????

No, don't worry about me. You'll never see an event like this at my place. But, for the sake of the other owners who sacrifice to hold these events........show some committment on your part. Carry your part of the load.

Shit, I don't stop at a gas station to use their bathroom without supporting them by buying something before I leave.

 

[Teacherman]

I meant when there is no tournament going on.

I have no problem with that customer dropping in and saying hi and having a cup of coffee.

The topic here is hosting events and what it takes to support them.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Unf****** believable. The poster boy for what's wrong with pool just showed up.

Don't worry about me. I don't hold these types of events. Financial considerations is priority one for a business owner. Bills need to get paid.

For me to run $5000-$6000 of business out of my place (business I would've done without the tournament) and then put up $3000 to host a tournament, then hope I get enough players and hope I get enough fans, it's plain stupid. Especially when I know that IF I get 64 players or more then I still can't make it because they'll order water and go down the street and spend $4 at McDonalds instead of $5 at my place.

Do you know what an owner has to gross on the weekend to recover his $3000?..................$8,000-$10,000. Impossible. By the time he pays for the cost of product and other overhead he may end up with $3000 out of the $8-$10,000. AND, that just breaks him even on the $3000 he put up. What about the $5000-$6000 of business he sacrificed to hold the tournament?????

No, don't worry about me. You'll never see an event like this at my place. But, for the sake of the other owners who sacrifice to hold these events........show some committment on your part. Carry your part of the load.

Shit, I don't stop at a gas station to use their bathroom without supporting them by buying something before I leave.

Teacherman, this is a moronic discussion. These are the same people that are going to scream about how there never is a major event in their area and wonder why their local star refuses to give the professional tour a try because he can't make two nickels to rub together playing this game. If they cannot fathom the money it takes to make these events possible and comprehend that their door fee is a mere drop in the bucket, then writing about it in this forum ain't gonna help.

 

[jjinfla]

Did you get a ringside chair? Was the price too high? Was it worth it? It all depends, how many tickets did he sell? The owner is providing a product and it is up to the customer to determine if it is worth the price. If he sold a good number of tickets then the price was right. if he didn't then either he over priced it or didn't have the proper stars there.

Looking at the brackets I find quite a few of the top pros listed.

Unfortunately many room owners do not charge any admission so people are used to being able to see top pros play for free. As a result the fans are spoiled. They expect to be entertained for free.

Capone's now sells his 15 seats for $15 - $20 at each event and sells out every time. People who want to walk around still get in for free. Of course that doesn't cover the table rental he loses by tying up the ten tables for the tournament. He even sold out when the women held the Spirit Tour a couple weeks ago. So that does show that people will pay to watch some good pool.

I am surprised that more owners don't charge admission.

Jake

 

[Teacherman]

Teacherman, this is a moronic discussion. These are the same people that are going to scream about how there never is a major event in their area and wonder why their local star refuses to give the professional tour a try because he can't make two nickels to rub together playing this game. If they cannot fathom the money it takes to make these events possible and comprehend that their door fee is a mere drop in the bucket, then writing about it in this forum ain't gonna help.

Ditto

Which is the point of almost all my posts.

This game has NO CHANCE to be big. The pool underworld is uneducated, underfunded, whiny, and complainy.

One truth will never go away. No one can make money with broke customers. And without money you have no chance at BIG POOL.

 

[Teacherman]

I, personally, think it's pretty cheap when a player can't bring his significant other in. My fiancee comes to most of the tournaments I play in and, if I'm not playing, we're usually not in there watching matches. It irritates me to have to pay for her to watch me play, but whatever. I still pay, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. If they can't just let spouses in to watch their s.o.'s matches, I would at least like to see a "spousal rate" that is less than the "rack rate".

If the tournament is a smaller tournament with a smaller entry fee and there is an admission charge, then who cares? I'll pay a small fee for her to get in. My entry fee was low, so who cares if I have to spend a few extra bucks? In the case of that Trump tournament (the 10-ball tournament in Atlantic City), for example, that was a joke. I believe it was Grady that posted his story here, and a friend of mine from here in AZ went and had the same experience (but he stayed and paid the money). He went to play in the tournament and took his wife. After paying a high entry fee, hotel fees for the week, and pretty much every meal being eaten at the hotel, he had to fork over another $150 so his wife could watch all of his matches. That is out of line as far as I'm concerned (flame away, Teach! ).

I don't have to say a thing. You know who and what you are.

 

[DaveK]

I would have done just what your friends did, walk from the tournament, as fast as I could.........simply because there is so much FREE action going on that I consider the entry price a rip off.

It totally flabbergasts me when I read opinions like this in one thread , then in another I read where lots of people think that the pro's should have the opportunity to play for big bucks. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Dave

 

[FLICKit]

Unf****** believable. The poster boy for what's wrong with pool just showed up.

Yeah... and the picture on the photo is of you.

Keep it up... I'm sure you'll continue to be the reigning champ Teacherman.

 

[cuejoey]

I'm a little disturbed by something and I was wondering if I'm the only one or am I just wrong? First, let me state a few things. I don't begrudge a pool room owner from making a living. Second, I understand there is a big financial investment to make up when you put on a large event. Third, I was out of town so I wasn't even there last weekend. Now, this is what bothered me. A couple of friends of mine drove almost an hour to the Viking Tour Championship to watch a couple of local guys play. When they got to the door, they were told it would cost $25 to watch. They immediately left. I found out it was $10 the first couple of days and then $25 on Sat. and $30 on Sunday. This just seems to be WAY out of line to watch an open event with only a handful of Pro players in it. I could maybe see $5 or so being appropriate. How would a guy with a couple of kids go see a friend play on the weekend? Better yet, what about a players' family? You really couldn't make an exception without pissing people off. There it is. Sorry this went so long

i can see everyone's point...i was going to go saturday for a few hours.i called they told me it was $25.00 to enter on saturday and $15.00 per hour to play pool....at first i thought that $25.00 was alot i expectected about $10.00 but then i quickly realized that this is not a 1000 or more person capacity building...another thing they want to keep out problem people ...there is alot of money involved in promoting this type of event...also the 2 owners of this hall have a first class place..they are as good of pool hall owners as you will find...i don't think anyone would want the bill for the extra liability insurance they had to pay for this event either...bottom line $25.00 is alot to alot of us but there are not many of these events around so enjoy when and if you can......

 

[Teacherman]

I'm having trouble finding the right words here ... ahh, yes, there they are.

Blow Me.

Poster Boy #2........

No Money & Bad Attitude.................yet, the typical pool customer. And from this we're supposed to build the POOL EMPIRE.