Can Billiard Promoters develop better skills?

justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Billiards players should practice their game so they don't lose their shot making ability.

But billiard promoters can't practice their game. They have one chance to gather up money to put on an event. They spend the money to put the production together and hope it turns a profit.

But in general they don't have any talent besides the ability to manage funds to rent out tournament related expenses. What they do have is the ability to promote the game, many promoters promote their product differently. Room owners promote their rooms differently.

In general people know what works and what doesn't work and what has worked. The IPT, USPPA and Barry Behrman events have proven that the billiards industry is suffering from poor management. A popular problem in the performing arts community.

What is different in the pool community is players have a global understanding of the billiard industry based on their travels and experience. There are clear signs that some management has developed a method to profit but when shaken up by a bad economy it doesn't withstand hard times.

How can billiard promoters up their game? Or is it time for a regime change of which billiard promoter thrive and which do not?
 
I'm beginning to think that people don't really care all that much. All these great ideas and noone has yet to contribute but az posters. Of all the members on the pro tour, I haven't seen much posting from them. Maybe I'm wrong. Sorry for the negative post.
 
K.Mcphee said:
I'm beginning to think that people don't really care all that much. All these great ideas and noone has yet to contribute but az posters. Of all the members on the pro tour, I haven't seen much posting from them. Maybe I'm wrong. Sorry for the negative post.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what they think, the idea is out there.

If no one is able to debate it that is acceptable as well.

The way billiards has been hasn't been working out well for players, promoters and sponsors. Of the three groups I doubt any single one is competent enough to solve the problem. What is happening is a lot of individual groups are attempting to demonstrate what they think needs to be done as opposed to what can be done easily.

(AZ helps keep my writing skills up to date. )

More importantly the biggest failure of the billiards industry was group think. Everyone thought if they just supported what everyone else was doing, it would work out well for everyone in the end (like what Mubarak was hoping Egyptians would do, that is shut up and just hope for the best). After delay payments or late payments players concluded that supporting everyone else doesn't work out well when they are left shortchanged (much like Egyptians that are unemployed and see no signs of progress under Mubarak rule). Finally the players decided they have different needs and gave priority to those needs before other industry members.

The obvious balance of power falls directly on the players in a move like the ABP boycott. It takes away their ability to earn from an event in the case of the boycott but it is a process that eliminates promoters with bad business habits. The ABP boycott is a tournament for billiard promoters, one promoter has already been sent packing. Another has quit because the pressure was too much for them.
 
Last edited:
Promoting a pro event

There are so many skill sets involved, not to mention a good roll or two, in the making of a successful billiards event that it is almost impossible for the promoter to break even let alone, dare I say, make a buck in today's market.

The railbirds expect the promoter to think up the idea, book the venue, buy out the nearest hotel's entire rooms and then sell it to them for below cost, set the date so it doesn't conflict with other tournaments, find sponsorships to help fund the event, get the "top" drawing pros to play in the event so the gate dollars are high, find and bring in vendors, work with national leagues to draw in an amateur event to coincide with the main event thereby creating a "built-in gate" and sales for the vendors, find people to work the event for almost nothing because most events don't make money, work out all the advertising snafus and make sure any "FREE" advertising venues are taken advantage of, find a tournament director who works well with the pros, put all deposits down that anyone requires to make the event work, work with the hotel for "special" requests and comp rooms for staff and top pros (which can only be done by filling up the hotel), and last but not least, let them in for below the cost of a ticket to a movie. And, then, god forbid, the promoter is chastised and second guessed if the event is not 100% funded.....before hand. Not too many people in this business have the ability to do that.

Most people do not have a clue what it takes or the risk involved to promote a high profile billiards tournament. Those who can, do, and those who can't or won't, complain.
 
tomgearhart said:
There are so many skill sets involved, not to mention a good roll or two, in the making of a successful billiards event that it is almost impossible for the promoter to break even let alone, dare I say, make a buck in today's market.

The railbirds expect the promoter to think up the idea, book the venue, buy out the nearest hotel's entire rooms and then sell it to them for below cost, set the date so it doesn't conflict with other tournaments, find sponsorships to help fund the event, get the "top" drawing pros to play in the event so the gate dollars are high, find and bring in vendors, work with national leagues to draw in an amateur event to coincide with the main event thereby creating a "built-in gate" and sales for the vendors, find people to work the event for almost nothing because most events don't make money, work out all the advertising snafus and make sure any "FREE" advertising venues are taken advantage of, find a tournament director who works well with the pros, put all deposits down that anyone requires to make the event work, work with the hotel for "special" requests and comp rooms for staff and top pros (which can only be done by filling up the hotel), and last but not least, let them in for below the cost of a ticket to a movie. And, then, god forbid, the promoter is chastised and second guessed if the event is not 100% funded.....before hand. Not too many people in this business have the ability to do that.

Most people do not have a clue what it takes or the risk involved to promote a high profile billiards tournament. Those who can, do, and those who can't or won't, complain.
Click to expand...

I hear ya, prices are changing so rapidly nowadays its tough to be certain whether or not people are offering deals or steals. The human element is tough too because people aren't robots, they drink, they smoke, they fight, they argue, they steal and everyone thinks they know what should be happening.

The worst is the fact that people are brought together with the idea they can make quick cash. A group like that can be more hostile than other groups brought together by other reasons.
 
K.Mcphee said:
I'm beginning to think that people don't really care all that much. All these great ideas and noone has yet to contribute but az posters. Of all the members on the pro tour, I haven't seen much posting from them. Maybe I'm wrong. Sorry for the negative post.
Click to expand...

i just read through all of this and have to agree with you. i feel just not many care.
The pros aren't going to post here, not many anyhow. This site is a joke to them!!
 
Billiard promoters just aren't interested in getting the best talent to make their events the best it could be.

Specifically with the largest event Barry's US Open he could take out ads on the sports channel, he could hire a public relations firm to spread the word out on his event, he could hire the best sports management team to resolve player-player hostilities, but he doesn't.

Instead I saw things like fancy party equipment, or arena style seating, things that are visible. What wasn't visible is the divide between Barry and the players. He neglected to think the players might not be happy in their arrangement.

And now it is haunting him.
 
justnum said:
Barry Behrman events have proven that the billiards industry is suffering from poor management.
Click to expand...

Yours is a nicely presented argument, Justnum, but I disagree.

The fact that Behrman is hard pressed to turn a profit is not conclusive evidence of poor management, although we all agree that he needs to do better by paying prize money promptly. Nonetheless, in evaluating his overall management of the US Open, that's one of many, many, issues. In any business endeavor, when expenses exceed revenues, both must come under scrutiny.

Revenues
Keeping it simple, this consists of sponsorships, booth sales, ticket sales, and player entry fees. Barry, to his credit, has opted not to increase entry fees and is also not increasing the cost of tickets for fans who attend. It's easy to argue that this is fiscally irresponsible on his part given the level of his expenses, but it also validates his claim that he is making sacrifices for the players and fans alike. The only way Barry can improve his revenue picture in these respects is to attract more players and fans, a pretty tall order. Where the greater opportunity for revenue enhancement lies is in the area of sponsorships and booth sales. These both come down to his own salesmanship, and, as has so often been observed on this forum, sponsorship dollars are pretty tough to come by these days in America. Barry is one of many promoters hard pressed to make ends meet in American pool, and even some of the ABP pros that have posted have taken note that they need to offer him more assistance in this area.

Expenses
Again keeping it simple, this consists of all proudction costs, free entries granted to past champions, and prize money paid. Given his revenue picture, one might feel that Barry hasn't done enough to manage these costs. It can easily be argued that Barry's failure to spend less on production, discontinue his free entry program and pay out less prize money is fiscally irresponsible. Once again, though, Barry's choices evidence his passion for this event. He wants it to retain the prestige it has always enjoyed.

Conclusion
That's just the theory. I'm not suggesting that Barry has been fiscally irresponsible, just noting that in some ways, it can be argued so in purely theoretical terms. Still, if it is in the area of salesmanship that he has come up short, this is, at least to some extent, for a variety of reasons that are often discussed on this forum: 1) downturn in the US economy, 2) people in America have far more sports and entertainment choices than ever before, and more than in most countires, 3) American pool itself has found tough times and there has been an alarming number of pool room closings in recent times, 4) the professional playing community has not done enough to mesh with America's amateur pool playing community. In short, pool has become a tougher sell in America, and the suggestion that a promoter that is having a very hard time making ends meet is necessarily guilty of poor management practices is in my view, unreasonable.

It has also often been noted on this forum that pool's business model can work more easily in a) countries in which the government supports the sport and its players, b) very wealthy countires like the United Arab Emirates or Qatar, or c) underdeveloped nations in which pool is one of many fewer forms of entertaiment available to those having limited financial means. Hence, attributing the success of foreign promoters in such countries to superior management alone is not logical.

Times will get better for American pool, perhaps very soon, but those few having the guts and love of the game to continue investing in the American pro game need to be reverd for their courage, not mocked for their inability to do better as entrepreneurs.
 
Last edited:
sjm said:
Yours is a nicely presented argument, Justnum, but I disagree.

The fact that Behrman is hard pressed to turn a profit is not conclusive evidence of poor management, although we all agree that he needs to do better by paying prize money promptly.
Click to expand...

I said Barry's event suffers from poor management because the players chose his event for their first boycott. Barry hasn't been keeping good relations with the players, it is obvious because he wasn't aware of their year long effort to avoid the boycott.

I did not imply fiscal irresponsibility, but he could stop giving past champs free entry to help with his cutbacks. Raise prices and all the other typical recession price adjustments to help make the tour sustainable.

A sustainable tour is one where everyone wins, the players, vendors, fans and promoters.
 
ironman said:
i just read through all of this and have to agree with you. i feel just not many care.
The pros aren't going to post here, not many anyhow. This site is a joke to them!!
Click to expand...

deleted---------
 
Last edited:
ironman said:
i just read through all of this and have to agree with you. i feel just not many care.
The pros aren't going to post here, not many anyhow. This site is a joke to them!!
Click to expand...

Guess so......
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top