Can the IPT be too "International"?

jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
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This thread was inspired by a similar thread started by mthornto in the Main Forum.

Observing the results of the IPT Qualifier at the Hard Times this weekend, I can't help but think of this qualifier as a microcosm of what the IPT's future might be like. The qualifier was dominated by non-Americans on American soil. There was only one American player (Frost) among the 9 players left standing during the final day, and no Americans were among the final 4 players.

Will the international players (non-Americans) consistently dominate the IPT tournaments? Last year's KOTH was already dominated by the Filipinos, and they'll just be adding to their numbers with the additions of Pagulayan and Orcollo. The IPT also contains an extremely strong European contingent, with players such as Hohmann, Souquet, Immonen, Fisher, Corr, and now Ortmann.

The question is, do the American players have a chance to compete with the "foreigners"? If not, then an even more important question is, can the IPT Tour survive and flourish in America without the success of the American players? Is it essential for the Americans to consistently win for the well-being of the IPT tour in America? Can the American public take hold of a sport/game that is not dominated by an American?

Just think of the popularities of golf and men's tennis today. Would golf be as popular in America if Tiger Woods was not American? Also, think of the reduced popularity of men's tennis. Since Sampras has retired and Agassi is in the twilight of his career, do we American's have a clue who Roger Federer is?
 
jsp said:
This thread was inspired by a similar thread started by mthornto in the Main Forum.

Observing the results of the IPT Qualifier at the Hard Times this weekend, I can't help but think of this qualifier as a microcosm of what the IPT's future might be like. The qualifier was dominated by non-Americans on American soil. There was only one American player (Frost) among the 9 players left standing during the final day, and no Americans were among the final 4 players.

Will the international players (non-Americans) consistently dominate the IPT tournaments? Last year's KOTH was already dominated by the Filipinos, and they'll just be adding to their numbers with the additions of Pagulayan and Orcollo. The IPT also contains an extremely strong European contingent, with players such as Hohmann, Souquet, Immonen, Fisher, Corr, and now Ortmann.

The question is, do the American players have a chance to compete with the "foreigners"? If not, then an even more important question is, can the IPT Tour survive and flourish in America without the success of the American players? Is it essential for the Americans to consistently win for the well-being of the IPT tour in America? Can the American public take hold of a sport/game that is not dominated by an American?

Just think of the popularities of golf and men's tennis today. Would golf be as popular in America if Tiger Woods was not American? Also, think of the reduced popularity of men's tennis. Since Sampras has retired and Agassi is in the twilight of his career, do we American's have a clue who Roger Federer is?
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Hey 'jsp',
I am a north Ga reddneck, OK!
I would just like to see the best from around the world WIN.
"The Best of the Best" is what the IPT is About!!!

"Have a nice day",
Lamar
 
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I believe the answer is that the pool fans of the world will embrace any tour that has the best of the best, regardless of the nationality of the players. Over time, the pendulum can be expected to swing back and forth between the Asians, Europeans, Americans, and others, and that should be fun to watch.

Take a look at women's pro pool. Go back 15-20 years and the WPBA tour was dominated by Jean Balukas, Robin Bell Dodson, Loree Jon Jones, and Ewa Laurance. The American players were dominant. Today, however the American women are not on top, with the rankings looking like this as of the end of the 2005 WPBA tour year:

1. Allison Fisher (Europe)
2. Karen Corr (Europe)
3. Monica Webb (USA)
4. Ga Young Kim (Asia)
5. Kelly Fisher (Europe)
6. Helena Thornfeldt (Europe)
7. Gerda Hofstatter (Europe)

Despite having just one American ranked among the Top 7, the WPBA, a tour played entirely in America, is more popular today than it ever has been. The fans love great pool, regardless of who's playing it, and there's no evidence that American players must perform well for a tour to be successful in America.
 
I spent a good part of 3 days there, including arriving at 9:30AM today. I was so engrossed in the quality of pool I had been watching that I never even thought about the lack of Americans. I think that most us are concerned about the competetion and the quality of play as opposed to the nationalities involved.
 
I spent a good part of 3 days there, including arriving at 9:30AM today. I was so engrossed in the quality of pool I had been watching that I never even thought about the lack of Americans. I think that most us are concerned about the competetion and the quality of play as opposed to the nationalities involved.
 
jsp said:
This thread was inspired by a similar thread started by mthornto in the Main Forum.

Observing the results of the IPT Qualifier at the Hard Times this weekend, I can't help but think of this qualifier as a microcosm of what the IPT's future might be like. The qualifier was dominated by non-Americans on American soil. There was only one American player (Frost) among the 9 players left standing during the final day, and no Americans were among the final 4 players.

Will the international players (non-Americans) consistently dominate the IPT tournaments? Last year's KOTH was already dominated by the Filipinos, and they'll just be adding to their numbers with the additions of Pagulayan and Orcollo. The IPT also contains an extremely strong European contingent, with players such as Hohmann, Souquet, Immonen, Fisher, Corr, and now Ortmann.

The question is, do the American players have a chance to compete with the "foreigners"? If not, then an even more important question is, can the IPT Tour survive and flourish in America without the success of the American players? Is it essential for the Americans to consistently win for the well-being of the IPT tour in America? Can the American public take hold of a sport/game that is not dominated by an American?

Just think of the popularities of golf and men's tennis today. Would golf be as popular in America if Tiger Woods was not American? Also, think of the reduced popularity of men's tennis. Since Sampras has retired and Agassi is in the twilight of his career, do we American's have a clue who Roger Federer is?
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American players will improve with world class champions on their door step. But the more worldly pool becomes the less likely anybody will truly dominate.

One of the factors of Fillipino and now Taiwanese dominance is how popular the sport is over in asia. As a result more people are getting into the game, which results in a larger talent pool. If pool becomes more popular in North America, Canadian and American players will step up their games because there will be more people playing.

Besides you can't have an all american tour and expect the IPT to have any kind of credibility, especially when they get to their "World Championship" (though if anybody read my thread on the subject, I think this is an arbitrary title anyways).

In regard to tennis, you guys still have Andy Roddick. Though he has a nasty habit of bombing out in the early rounds of grand slam events from time to time. Roger never does that.
 
jsp said:
This thread was inspired by a similar thread started by mthornto in the Main Forum.

Observing the results of the IPT Qualifier at the Hard Times this weekend, I can't help but think of this qualifier as a microcosm of what the IPT's future might be like. The qualifier was dominated by non-Americans on American soil. There was only one American player (Frost) among the 9 players left standing during the final day, and no Americans were among the final 4 players.

Will the international players (non-Americans) consistently dominate the IPT tournaments? Last year's KOTH was already dominated by the Filipinos, and they'll just be adding to their numbers with the additions of Pagulayan and Orcollo. The IPT also contains an extremely strong European contingent, with players such as Hohmann, Souquet, Immonen, Fisher, Corr, and now Ortmann.

The question is, do the American players have a chance to compete with the "foreigners"? If not, then an even more important question is, can the IPT Tour survive and flourish in America without the success of the American players? Is it essential for the Americans to consistently win for the well-being of the IPT tour in America? Can the American public take hold of a sport/game that is not dominated by an American?

Just think of the popularities of golf and men's tennis today. Would golf be as popular in America if Tiger Woods was not American? Also, think of the reduced popularity of men's tennis. Since Sampras has retired and Agassi is in the twilight of his career, do we American's have a clue who Roger Federer is?
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Of the now 6 IPT qualifiers, 3 have been Americans (Jason Miller, Shane VanBoening and Brian Groce).

I think we are OK and our level of play will achieve a "New Standard" in the very near future!
 
Most American Sports have become very International, Look at Baseball, Hockey and Basketball, more and more you see people from all over the world competing. The diversity can only help us as a people to be more united and slowly do away with this nationalism in the world that helps create division.

I think it's great to meet people from other countries and find all the things we have in common.

Bring on the world! It's what made this country what it is, we can't stop now:)
 
I also think that US players will have a considerable impact in IPT events, and that a pretty deep and high quality talent pool will spring up in the US.

It will help the IPT if there is a high profile US player at or near the top of the IPT. The US is still the major market and success in the US early could help the IPT to establish a firmer international footprint in the future.

We are surely likely to see a lot of diversity in the IPT. A lot more than Snooker has been able to achieve despite their 10+ years of trying to internationalize the game.
 
jsp said:
...Can the American public take hold of a sport/game that is not dominated by an American?
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I doubt it. If the IPT is sold to civilians, Americans will need to cheer for the home team. I suspect this would apply all countries. If broadcasting is the key to success and the revenue must come from the states, the IPT better make sure the "Michael Jordan" is as American as "Apple Pie".


Of course, all of us pool fans will not care where the top IPT players live. Unless we want to steer clear of them after we cashed our paycheck :)We will love it no matter who is on top.
 
Comments...

IPT will be following what it stands for, and I believe the Pool world will embrace it, but the general public will be much slower, especially here in the good ole USA. The average citizen here will say, 'I don't want to watch some foreigner' or 'How are our boys doing?' or 'Niels who?'. I do not the GENERAL public will be nearly as enthused as we are in the Pool world.

I have a difficult time trying to explain to many league players who Efren Reyes is, and they ARE interested in Pool. How do you think it will be for someone not particularly interested in our sport. From my own experience of watching Curling in the Winter Olympics, watching the Buffalo roam would have been more exciting.
 
sjm said:
...Despite having just one American ranked among the Top 7, the WPBA, a tour played entirely in America, is more popular today than it ever has been. The fans love great pool, regardless of who's playing it, and there's no evidence that American players must perform well for a tour to be successful in America.
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I don't disagree with what you said regarding the WPBA. But the WPBA still caters only to the die-hard pool fans out there, and this is why the total prize money still hovers around the $50k mark. I agree, the pool fanatics out there, such as us and all who post here, most likely wouldn't care what nationality they are watching. Good pool is good pool, whether it be American, British, Asian, or Martian (now that would be cool :p).

However, the IPT will definitely be a much different tour than the WPBA. In order for the IPT to be sulf-sustaining and continue dishing out the millions of dollars of prize money per tournament, it is mandatory that the tour appeals more to the masses and the general public. This is why KT is showing the KOTH (and all the other tournaments) as a reality-type show on television. The wider the viewing audience, the more likely big corporate sponsors will fund the tour, and the longer the tour will last. For the IPT to survive, the history of pool in America has proven that it should appeal to more than the pool aficionados out there.

So I ask again, can the average American Joe be interested in a sport that isn't dominated by an American? Do they need a local kid to cheer and root for, in order for them to give this pool thing a chance? I hope they do...I, as much as anyone, want to see the IPT succeed. The IPT will not succeed if only us long-time pool fans are the ones watching the broadcasts.

BTW sjm, why the angry face in your post title? :D
 
jsp said:
BTW sjm, why the angry face in your post title? :D
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I have no idea. To my knowledge, I've never put any kind of smiley in any post I've ever made on this forum. In fact, I don't even know how. Is it possible this angry smiley was inserted automatically? I'm very confused here. I guess it's possible I inserted it by accident. Obviously, there is no anger in my post!
 
Snapshot9 said:
IPT will be following what it stands for, and I believe the Pool world will embrace it, but the general public will be much slower, especially here in the good ole USA. The average citizen here will say, 'I don't want to watch some foreigner' or 'How are our boys doing?' or 'Niels who?'. I do not the GENERAL public will be nearly as enthused as we are in the Pool world.

I have a difficult time trying to explain to many league players who Efren Reyes is, and they ARE interested in Pool. How do you think it will be for someone not particularly interested in our sport. From my own experience of watching Curling in the Winter Olympics, watching the Buffalo roam would have been more exciting.
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As long as the content is compelling the public will watch it and develop their heros and villians. I think you are off the mark as to what the "average citizen" likes and dislikes. Most league players don't know who Johnny Archer is either.

John
 
SlimShafty said:
Most American Sports have become very International, Look at Baseball, Hockey and Basketball,
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Sorry to nit pick but, Hockey isn't American. You guys host it, we play it :D.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Sorry to nit pick but, Hockey isn't American. You guys host it, we play it :D.
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Apparently there are a few countries in Europe that field strong teams, like the Swiss and Finns most recently. Us Canadians are middle-of-the-pack about now. Hopefully we will begin to dominate again very soon, specificly in the medal rounds :)

Dave
 
Looking back through the years, the sports/games/disciplines that had a sharp rise in popularity were almost all driven by individual achievements coupled with likability. Olympic gymnastics was just background noise until Olga Korbett performed brilliantly; she was the queen of the hop in America even though she was from the communist bloc ( our sworn enemy at the time). Then Nadia Comaneci captured the hearts and minds of Americans. Roger Bannister from England was a huge celebrity here when he ran the first 4-minute mile. I could site numerous other examples, but the point is that gymnastics, tennis, NBA (Larry Bird and Magic Johnson revived the NBA), and lately poker jumped in popularity because of performance, charisma and lavish packaging by the TV networks. If a compelling human interest story emerges from the IPT , and the viewers' need for their newest hero is piqued, the tour might take off. IMO, if it simply comes down to "flairless" matches between good players, nothing much will happen. Whatever happens, we Americans have proven that we are not jingoistic when it comes to celebrating excellence, wherever the provider hails from.
 
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DaveK said:
Apparently there are a few countries in Europe that field strong teams, like the Swiss and Finns most recently. Us Canadians are middle-of-the-pack about now. Hopefully we will begin to dominate again very soon, specificly in the medal rounds :)

Dave
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Meh, we just don't want to embarrass the field :D.
 
jnav447 said:
...Whatever happens, we Americans have proven that we are not jingoistic when it comes to celebrating excellence, wherever the provider hails from.
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Jingoistic...nice word, gotta remember that one.

Actually, I feel we Americans are rather "jingoistic". Just look at the sport of soccer (football for you non-Americans). Soccer is the biggest sport in the world except for America. Why? Because we Americans suck at it (okay, we don't suck at it, but we don't dominate the international scene). That's why even pool has more TV exposure here than soccer.

Think a few years back when the women's USA team won the World Cup (you know, the whole Brandy Chastain bra thingy). There was a little soccer boom here in America. But now that both of our mens and womens teams are mediocre, we hear nothing about soccer. Does the average American know that the 2006 World Cup will take place this year in Germany? All my foreign co-workers do, but none of the Americans.

If the World Cup can't make big news in America, how can we expect pool and the IPT to make big news? It seems the only way is if we Americans dominate the game...and right now, we surely do not.
 
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