Can the pros sell pool like McEnroe/Connors/Borg sold tennis?

[SlimShafty]

This is an interesting question, pool has always had its characters but seems some of the pro pool players today are like watching the dead walk, they act like pool zombies, and they are too quiet, most are more quiet then golfers. Funny thing is some of them can be very animated or talkative outside the tournament trail and then clam up or change personalities come show time.

As long as your not talking while the other player is shooting, I say let the verbiage fly so to speak

All of them have to find there own niche, of course will have the serious as a heart attack, and suit wearing machine like players, and nice as sunshine players, but we certainly have to have the talkers, the crazies, animated, and of course the bad boys, the players you love to hate, love to watch.

The John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors era made tennis much more watchable and marketable in the US, not only were these guys outstanding players, they had intensity, character, and a heated rivalry...OK they hated each other

Pool players are going to have to try and sell the sport and themselves to a much larger audience, can they do it? do they have it in them to make the right changes? Will the money alone bring out the heat and passion?

 

[bruin70]

T,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors era made tennis much more watchable and marketable in the US, not only were these guys outstanding players, they had intensity, character, and a heated rivalry...OK they hated each other

Pool players are going to have to try and sell the sport and themselves to a much larger audience, can they do it? do they have it in them to make the right changes? Will the money alone bring out the heat and passion?

you can't sell what's dull.

 

[JustPlay]

Professional Pool players can and never have tried to sell the game or tried to get their names to become a house hold name among the sporting public at least here in the US. I think this is parcially due to non-live events on TV and the insignificance role that pool plays as a whole in the world of sports and games.

If the crowds can cheer like they do at a football game, I really think the game could be more attractive than just sitting there like a we are in church. I never really understood why we have to sit like that at an event. Everyone who plays pool for money, plays on the road for money, in local tournaments and plays in any pool room, has a least a juke box blairing, people talking/ shouting across the room, people banging balls around on tables next to them and Tv's around them showing some game blairing out the screaming fans, but yet, they still play like champions and stay concentrated on their playing. But when it come major tournament time, we have to sit their like a nun.

I have some old accu stat tapes and back in the 80's, people used to go craze and scream their heads off when a great shot was made, saftey, run out or some lucky shot was made they cheered their favorite player, like football fans cheer theirs. The moment Tiger Woods hits his shot people are yelling something, today, they just give a mild clap. Its just dull and unexciting.

The Mosconi Cup is the only event where the fans really get excited about pool and also in Europe, the go craze over Snooker and pool. We need to start letting the fans of the game be fans in the stands as well.

 

[macguy]

This is an interesting question, pool has always had its characters but seems some of the pro pool players today are like watching the dead walk, they act like pool zombies, and they are too quiet, most are more quiet then golfers. Funny thing is some of them can be very animated or talkative outside the tournament trail and then clam up or change personalities come show time.

As long as your not talking while the other player is shooting, I say let the verbiage fly so to speak

All of them have to find there own niche, of course will have the serious as a heart attack, and suit wearing machine like players, and nice as sunshine players, but we certainly have to have the talkers, the crazies, animated, and of course the bad boys, the players you love to hate, love to watch.

The John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors era made tennis much more watchable and marketable in the US, not only were these guys outstanding players, they had intensity, character, and a heated rivalry...OK they hated each other

Pool players are going to have to try and sell the sport and themselves to a much larger audience, can they do it? do they have it in them to make the right changes? Will the money alone bring out the heat and passion?

It is hard to make something exciting that is not. As slow as something like golf may seem when a player is lining up an important putt the excitement builds waiting for him to hit it. Even after he hits it there is a period of time as it rolls toward the cup where you are frozen in your seat waiting to see if it falls and have the release of emotion that happens whether he makes it or it rims the cup. The audience feels it so strongly and they are part of what is going even as they sit in their living room. This is not fake or contrived excitement and it's real. Poker is another televised event where a level of excitement is generated waiting to the turn of the river card with so much riding on it, people are out of their chairs as the dealer teases you with a small hesitation before he makes the turn. Again the excitement is real and you can feel it, it can be intoxicating even to non players.

It is hard to see where that kind of excitement can be generated in pool, it just isn't there. In fact the better the player the less exciting the game is. I have to say the decision to play 8-ball in the upcoming tournament will even more put people to sleep. In 9-ball you have to come with a shot when you get the table that can be pretty exciting but in 8-ball you have many ways you can bail out or duck and play safe never really having to do much that would be defined as exciting. There is a lot of strategy and the commentators will be constantly scrambling to try to explain why the player did what he did and add some air of excitement to it that just isn't there. Pool is what it is and will have a core following, probably not enough to maintain a mainstream TV presence, it just isn't a spectator sport, that's just a fact.

You can try to create a fake facade such as wrestling but pool is a real sport there has to be something to back it up. I watched that MTV type video the IPT has on their web site and it's pretty well done but it takes a lot more then that to make the sport exciting. Just the audience screaming and applauding on que and the players pumping their fists doesn't make for an exciting sport. Are they going to hand them microphones so they can berate each other before the matches like the WWF? Thats kind of what the video suggests, I hope that isn't the way they actually plan on promoting it.

 

[renard]

I have to say the decision to play 8-ball in the upcoming tournament will even more put people to sleep. In 9-ball you have to come with a shot when you get the table that can be pretty exciting but in 8-ball you have many ways you can bail out or duck and play safe never really having to do much that would be defined as exciting. There is a lot of strategy and the commentators will be constantly scrambling to try to explain why the player did what he did and add some air of excitement to it that just isn't there. Pool is what it is and will have a core following, probably not enough to maintain a mainstream TV presence, it just isn't a spectator sport, that's just a fact.

Are they going to hand them microphones so they can berate each other before the matches like the WWF? Thats kind of what the video suggests, I hope that isn't the way they actually plan on promoting it.

You bring valid points up Mac. But there still is an outside chance thru the editing of the final product that they may come up with something with a presentable hook.

Reality TV brings the human side various situations to the forefront. Most programming of the past was of players playing the game and not speaking. This made them people that the common viewer can't identify with. There will be cameras following many, many players around to spark the intrest of a player on his journey to take the prize. Showing the many behind the camera scenes of the game itself that knowone knew existed.

The eightball games will be edited to a regular poolplayers disgust and the average TV viewers delight. Showing key shots, great shots, and any banter in matches similar to the way the World Series of Poker presents only the best tidbits.

Sure the jury is out on this. I could be wrong, you could be wrong; but I'd rather for the sake of pool hope that you are wrong in your assessment. We will see...

P.S. Your posts are always based on hard reason...I commend you.

 

[Rick S.]

It USED to be done.

For all you people old enough to remember 'Wide World of Sports' you remember them showing pool. And they advertised ahead of schedule too.

I can remember Mosconi and Fats going at it, as well as some other players. I looked forward to Saturday when it came on.

Earl, could pull it off.


Rick S.

 

[renard]

It USED to be done.

For all you people old enough to remember 'Wide World of Sports' you remember them showing pool. And they advertised ahead of schedule too.

I can remember Mosconi and Fats going at it, as well as some other players. I looked forward to Saturday when it came on.

Earl, could pull it off.


Rick S.

I whole heartedly agree with you. Great analogy!

 

[JustPlay]

In regards to having 9-ball v 8-ball in relation to mass appeal to the general public 8-ball wins. There has to be at least a million bar leagues that play 8-ball in the US. VENA and the BCA has thousands of players show up in Vegas each years to play 8-ball, weather it be teams or individually.

So the IPT's choice to have 8-ball is good call. Its played by everyone. So everyone has a better relation with it. And what does it matter if they play 8-ball. There is more stratagy to 8-ball than 9-ball, saftey play, balls can get tied up, a player has to think more in 8-ball than 9-ball.

Its like a combination of straight pool and 9-ball. And as far as the pros are concerned, pool is pool is pool. As long as they can make a living and play the game they dedicated their lives to, what difference what the game is.

Watching or playing great pool is the best. Making a great bank, cut shot, run out, safty or competition between two champions is great no matter what the game is. Pool is like musical notes, no matter how you arrange the notes its still music. A c-minor in rock-n-roll is still a c-minor classical is still a c-mionor in hip hop.

So stop crying about the game selection. If KT didn't invest his millions into pool do you think anyone else would have?

 

[macguy]

In regards to having 9-ball v 8-ball in relation to mass appeal to the general public 8-ball wins. There has to be at least a million bar leagues that play 8-ball in the US. VENA and the BCA has thousands of players show up in Vegas each years to play 8-ball, weather it be teams or individually.

So the IPT's choice to have 8-ball is good call. Its played by everyone. So everyone has a better relation with it. And what does it matter if they play 8-ball. There is more stratagy to 8-ball than 9-ball, saftey play, balls can get tied up, a player has to think more in 8-ball than 9-ball.

Its like a combination of straight pool and 9-ball. And as far as the pros are concerned, pool is pool is pool. As long as they can make a living and play the game they dedicated their lives to, what difference what the game is.

Watching or playing great pool is the best. Making a great bank, cut shot, run out, safty or competition between two champions is great no matter what the game is. Pool is like musical notes, no matter how you arrange the notes its still music. A c-minor in rock-n-roll is still a c-minor classical is still a c-mionor in hip hop.

So stop crying about the game selection. If KT didn't invest his millions into pool do you think anyone else would have?

I get the impression that they want to make it an exciting happening event, not sure 8-ball lends it's self to that, we will have to see. Pool is a very very tough sell at best I hope they are flexable as they see what works and what doesn't, maybe even to the point of a complete revamping. I.E. the original $899. sign up fee, that went quick.

 

[renard]

I get the impression that they want to make it an exciting happening event, not sure 8-ball lends it's self to that, we will have to see. Pool is a very very tough sell at best I hope they are flexable as they see what works and what doesn't, maybe even to the point of a complete revamping. I.E. the original $899. sign up fee, that went quick.

You hit the nail on the head with the key word, "Flexible." Change what doesn't work. Tweek the product from event to event in little ways.

Also the players need to unite and find what they can do from thier end to identify the good, bad, and the ugly. Then they must make it happen from thier end. Pushing the envelope on identified keys that will "sell" thier sport.

 

[renard]

In regards to having 9-ball v 8-ball in relation to mass appeal to the general public 8-ball wins. There has to be at least a million bar leagues that play 8-ball in the US. VENA and the BCA has thousands of players show up in Vegas each years to play 8-ball, weather it be teams or individually.

So the IPT's choice to have 8-ball is good call. Its played by everyone. So everyone has a better relation with it. And what does it matter if they play 8-ball. There is more stratagy to 8-ball than 9-ball, saftey play, balls can get tied up, a player has to think more in 8-ball than 9-ball.

Its like a combination of straight pool and 9-ball. And as far as the pros are concerned, pool is pool is pool. As long as they can make a living and play the game they dedicated their lives to, what difference what the game is.

Watching or playing great pool is the best. Making a great bank, cut shot, run out, safty or competition between two champions is great no matter what the game is. Pool is like musical notes, no matter how you arrange the notes its still music. A c-minor in rock-n-roll is still a c-minor classical is still a c-mionor in hip hop.

So stop crying about the game selection. If KT didn't invest his millions into pool do you think anyone else would have?

You bring up very valid points and I agree, more people have played 8-ball then any other game on the cloth...

 

[JustPlay]

how flexible though? and in what way?
it's easy to change the fee. it's again, like advanced ticket sales, just a way for the tour to get more money into the coffers so trudeau has less to come out of pocket along with what ever partners he may have.
what changes are going ro help bring non-players to the tournament or tv set to watch the sport?

From what I get from the website, tickets will only be sold in advanced and not at the door.

 

[sjm]

The race to 120 between Efren and Earl in the latew 1990's that got to 117 - 117 at one point was pool's Borg-McEnroe. Whether it's tennis or pool, two superstars in their primes with vastly different styles playing at their peak form is as good as it gets.

Of course, Borg and McEnroe had an advantage that pool players don't have, namely four hours of major network coverage, a legacy bestowed upon them by their predecessors. Rod Laver, John Newcombe, Ilie Nastase, Chris Evert, Billie Jean King, and numerous others had already laid the groundwork for them.

 

[SlimShafty]

need another "miz" and "fats". people that can appeal to the non-playing public. entertainers as well as players.
understand your reference to johnny mac and jimbo, but borg? boring as hell and never said a word. his racquet talked quite a bit though
johnny mac's rivalry was more with borg! connors was older and his game had already started to age.

Yeah we certainly do need these types of players, Minnesota Fats was very popular and was loved by many outside the pool world, yet his pool skills were not on par with say Mosconi or Crane. But more average pool playing folks remember Fats before Mosconi.

Who's going to be the Fats of the IPT, who's going to have enough skill yet the right flair and style to jump out and grab an audience. It's not an easy thing to do at all, it's an art form to add just enough swagger or cockiness without being looked upon as a jerk, or enough humor without looking dumb, It's going to be even harder to find a player with the intensity of McEnroe who also has the game to back it up.

Pool has really been lacking heated rivalries, hopefully the money and the new format will change this for the better. With the round robin format we will see players in matches that would have never happened in the current format.

John McEnroe and Connors was a very heated rivalry, some of the greatest matches in history as far as I'm concerned. Connors put tennis on the map and when the young punk McEnroe came along, tennis got notice in the states adn these guys were treated like rock stars, it made me want to play tennis and even watch. True Borg was more of a challenge for McEnroe later on and also a solid rivalry, but like you said Borg was boring and they only played less then 20 matches, McEnroe played Connors 3 times that and Connors was so intense and wanted to win so much, early on Connors had the edge and he thought he was a tennis God (actually acted like it) and hated Mac for taking away his attention and glory.

If we can generate rivalries anywhere close to that and I think it can happen, pool will have a stage, and a lot of players have been waiting for the stage.

 

[renard]

how flexible though? and in what way?
it's easy to change the fee. it's again, like advanced ticket sales, just a way for the tour to get more money into the coffers so trudeau has less to come out of pocket along with what ever partners he may have.
what changes are going ro help bring non-players to the tournament or tv set to watch the sport?

I believe you need the best in the business to be packaging the TV product. If you sell it for TV the rest follows. Sure you need ticket sales but the demand for them needs to be created.

With reality TV type format; if you have a pro step up with a Muhammad Ali type of showmanship (or somewhere along those lines.) Ali created the demand for himself and made the $$$ in boxing payouts rise because he knew how to use a simple tool called TV.

I've said it once I'll say it again. The pro's need to unite, talk amongst themselves and plan (just like a runout) how they think this thing should be packaged. I'm not saying this has to be like the WWF.

As an example, lets say there was a meeting arranged by player appointed officers and a TV think tank group representing FOX. Both groups would discuss what would be within reasonable limits both could supply for TV. Both KT and the network would welcome knowing what limits are present. Remember they will have to pull out all the stops, and think outside the box working in.

Does KT or a network executive know what the players limitations are? No. Will KT and the network want the best package the player could provide? Yes. All sides would have to be flexible. tweeking as the go along with each installment. All sports do it, changing rules, formats; TV coverage. Cut or tone down the things that don't work, and shine the spotlight on the things that do.

 

[SlimShafty]

I believe you need the best in the business to be packaging the TV product. If you sell it for TV the rest follows. Sure you need ticket sales but the demand for them needs to be created.

With reality TV type format; if you have a pro step up with a Muhammad Ali type of showmanship (or somewhere along those lines.) Ali created the demand for himself and made the $$$ in boxing payouts rise because he knew how to use a simple tool called TV.

I've said it once I'll say it again. The pro's need to unite, talk amongst themselves and plan (just like a runout) how they think this thing should be packaged. I'm not saying this has to be like the WWF.

As an example, lets say there was a meeting arranged by player appointed officers and a TV think tank group representing FOX. Both groups would discuss what would be within reasonable limits both could supply for TV. Both KT and the network would welcome knowing what limits are present. Remember they will have to pull out all the stops, and think outside the box working in.

Does KT or a network executive know what the players limitations are? No. Will KT and the network want the best package the player could provide? Yes. All sides would have to be flexible. tweeking as the go along with each installment. All sports do it, changing rules, formats; TV coverage. Cut or tone down the things that don't work, and shine the spotlight on the things that do.

Good post, Ali is another great example of what pool needs, everyone will say yeah but tennis or boxing is more action, guess what my mother watched Ali fight and she hates boxing Ali was pure entertainment, I never liked tennis until Connors/McEnroe, so yeah pool has Huge room to grow.

Some pool purist think sharking for a lack of a better term, is wrong, but I think we need a guy that runs a table or makes a tremendous shot say something about it. Say "I'm unstoppable" or "you can't handle this action", "did you see that shot? that was impossible" I'm not saying everyone should act, far from it, I just know there are guys holding back or just fell into the same routine as the rest, maybe afraid to let themselves be themselves for fear of what others may think, Fats wasn't worried, and the public embraced him.

Fats would get under a lot of guys skin, dare I say he won many games on this alone! Big deal! deal with it, it's always been a part of pool, it's certainly a part of other sports, put the yips in the other guy, make him nervous or get him out of his game, as long as players are quiet while the opponent is shooting, it's all good.

 

[macguy]

Good post, Ali is another great example of what pool needs, everyone will say yeah but tennis or boxing is more action, guess what my mother watched Ali fight and she hates boxing Ali was pure entertainment, I never liked tennis until Connors/McEnroe, so yeah pool has Huge room to grow.

Some pool purist think sharking for a lack of a better term, is wrong, but I think we need a guy that runs a table or makes a tremendous shot say something about it. Say "I'm unstoppable" or "you can't handle this action", "did you see that shot? that was impossible" I'm not saying everyone should act, far from it, I just know there are guys holding back or just fell into the same routine as the rest, maybe afraid to let themselves be themselves for fear of what others may think, Fats wasn't worried, and the public embraced him.

Fats would get under a lot of guys skin, dare I say he won many games on this alone! Big deal! deal with it, it's always been a part of pool, it's certainly a part of other sports, put the yips in the other guy, make him nervous or get him out of his game, as long as players are quiet while the opponent is shooting, it's all good.

You want to see players trying to shark each other? This is already probably going to be turned into a side show anyway, let the sport retain some dignity.

 

[Rick S.]

Good post, Ali is another great example of what pool needs, everyone will say yeah but tennis or boxing is more action, guess what my mother watched Ali fight and she hates boxing Ali was pure entertainment, I never liked tennis until Connors/McEnroe, so yeah pool has Huge room to grow.

Some pool purist think sharking for a lack of a better term, is wrong, but I think we need a guy that runs a table or makes a tremendous shot say something about it. Say "I'm unstoppable" or "you can't handle this action", "did you see that shot? that was impossible" I'm not saying everyone should act, far from it, I just know there are guys holding back or just fell into the same routine as the rest, maybe afraid to let themselves be themselves for fear of what others may think, Fats wasn't worried, and the public embraced him.

Fats would get under a lot of guys skin, dare I say he won many games on this alone! Big deal! deal with it, it's always been a part of pool, it's certainly a part of other sports, put the yips in the other guy, make him nervous or get him out of his game, as long as players are quiet while the opponent is shooting, it's all good.

Fats=Earl.

IF he had a little more disipline.

He has a hell of a lot more talent than the Fat man. Earl can do the walk, and do the 'talk' too. If he just learns to learn to channel it positively.

Ali had the same game plan....1/2 the people paid to see him get his ass beat, the other 1/2 wanted him to win. Both sides wanted to win BAD. Bad enough to pay good money to see.

Earl draws the people in like no other player. He's one of a kind, a 9 Ball machine. AND, he's far from through.


Rick S.