Can you ever reach full potental only playing on bar boxes?
- Thread starter Flip_dat_Quarta
- Start date
Your gonna get a whole lotta grief on this, but here's my 27 cents...
Ask yourself this question, what am I going to spend the majority of time on and have the most potential for some return, pleasure, cash, whatever, it's a personal question only you can answer. From here you must decide how much you are willing to dedicate yourself to getting better. If bar box is your answer, then the answer is simple, practice practice and practice some more on a bar box. NFL players don't practice on Canadian fields, (which are larger BTW), here's your sign....
Good luck;
I'll go ahead and disagree. While you have less distance to travel, you have to consider how hard you need to stroke balls to get all the way back up table and break out a cluster. Not only to break it out, but hitting it hard enough to move the balls after the break out in order to get shape.
It's an art.
It's an art.
Playing on a bar box is a completely different game than playing on a 9 footer.
On a bar box, you can half stroke everything. You never need to let your full stroke out.
On a 9 foot table, you will need to stroke a full stroke on most of your shots.
In you want to be king of a bar box, then just play on bar boxes.
But when you need to really stroke a shot to get the cue ball to travel, you might be missing a gear.
:thud:
.
shape
If you are playing on bar tables with a heavy or even worse big cue ball the key to shape is a lot more follow than almost anyone plays on a nine foot table now. The old bar table rule was "draw for show, follow for dough".
When you are practicing on the bar table play spot shape instead of area shape. Start off trying to position the cue ball in a six inch circle and keep shrinking that down. When you get to where the cue ball almost always stops where it would be touching or overhanging an imaginary dot on the table you won't have much problem transitioning to any other table.
The hardest part of most shots is cue ball control so you don't need super tight pockets to practice on, just shrink the acceptable area for the cue ball to stop in.
Snooker is held up as a precision game but bear in mind that over 75% of a snooker game is usually played in a 4'x6' area, maybe smaller. Snooker is finished by running the same pattern or a very similar pattern of balls most games too. Snooker is closer to a bar table than a nine or ten foot pool table, especially if you get silly and put super tight pockets on the bar table.
I spent a lot of time on a snooker table tricked out for golf and found it slightly harder than a pool table but only slightly. When a pool player first tries snooker it can seem vastly harder because they have to recalibrate what is acceptable accuracy. Once you know where a ball has to hit the inner walls to be pocketed it turns out that snooker isn't nearly as hard as it seemed to be when you didn't know where to aim, or so I found.
Cost per square foot of building, rental or mortgage, means we are going to spend more and more time on the short track. I'd focus on where I am going to be playing When you are going to play a big event on bigger tables give yourself a couple hours practice time to recalibrate speed and acceptable accuracy and you will fair pretty well. Shot selection is likely to be a little weak still, something you will have to recognize and try to overrule.
That is the fault with gaffing up a home table of any size with supertight pockets, over time it changes your playing style to be for that table, then your patterns and shot selection usually suffers on more normal tables.
Hu
If you are playing on bar tables with a heavy or even worse big cue ball the key to shape is a lot more follow than almost anyone plays on a nine foot table now. The old bar table rule was "draw for show, follow for dough".
When you are practicing on the bar table play spot shape instead of area shape. Start off trying to position the cue ball in a six inch circle and keep shrinking that down. When you get to where the cue ball almost always stops where it would be touching or overhanging an imaginary dot on the table you won't have much problem transitioning to any other table.
The hardest part of most shots is cue ball control so you don't need super tight pockets to practice on, just shrink the acceptable area for the cue ball to stop in.
Snooker is held up as a precision game but bear in mind that over 75% of a snooker game is usually played in a 4'x6' area, maybe smaller. Snooker is finished by running the same pattern or a very similar pattern of balls most games too. Snooker is closer to a bar table than a nine or ten foot pool table, especially if you get silly and put super tight pockets on the bar table.
I spent a lot of time on a snooker table tricked out for golf and found it slightly harder than a pool table but only slightly. When a pool player first tries snooker it can seem vastly harder because they have to recalibrate what is acceptable accuracy. Once you know where a ball has to hit the inner walls to be pocketed it turns out that snooker isn't nearly as hard as it seemed to be when you didn't know where to aim, or so I found.
Cost per square foot of building, rental or mortgage, means we are going to spend more and more time on the short track. I'd focus on where I am going to be playing When you are going to play a big event on bigger tables give yourself a couple hours practice time to recalibrate speed and acceptable accuracy and you will fair pretty well. Shot selection is likely to be a little weak still, something you will have to recognize and try to overrule.
That is the fault with gaffing up a home table of any size with supertight pockets, over time it changes your playing style to be for that table, then your patterns and shot selection usually suffers on more normal tables.
Hu
Very similar yes, typically 7 foot (sometimes 6 foot, sometimes 8 foot), but with pockets cut the same way as snooker pockets.
The cloth and cushions are more like snooker tables too and the balls are 2 inches with a 1.875 inch cue ball (sounds odd but I believe it's because it originated as a pub game and that allows the ball return to return the cue ball if it gets potted).
Potental
Personally I think 12 ft snooker table is the table that challenges almost everyone ..
Tight pockets with rounded corners and allot of green .
Personally I think 12 ft snooker table is the table that challenges almost everyone ..
Tight pockets with rounded corners and allot of green .
Bar Box vs. 9' Table
Just contemplate this FACT........7' has appreciably smaller playing surface with bigger pockets vs a 9' with SMALLER pockets.& a lot more playing surface.
Just contemplate this FACT........7' has appreciably smaller playing surface with bigger pockets vs a 9' with SMALLER pockets.& a lot more playing surface.
Can you ever reach full potential only playing on bar boxes?
When they have Open bar box tourneys, have you noticed that its always pro's winning it? Pro's who seldom play on bar boxes. Why aren't the people who 'specialize' in bar boxes winning these tourneys?
Want to really improve your game? Dont spend alot of time on the toy tables.
When they have Open bar box tourneys, have you noticed that its always pro's winning it? Pro's who seldom play on bar boxes. Why aren't the people who 'specialize' in bar boxes winning these tourneys?
Want to really improve your game? Dont spend alot of time on the toy tables.
Define "FULL POTENTIAL"...??
of ALLLL the different popular games being played today...8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball,
14.1, rotation, 1 hole, Golf, Banks......you only ever see 8 ball in the average bar
with a couple 7' valleys. Mix in a little 9 ball for towns with leagues...but thats about
it.
Back to the definition of "full potential". If you have absolutely NO desire or intention
to move up into the 9' world, then you can reach your full potential IN THAT CIRCLE.
Whatever level you can get to on a 7' valley is your peak. Your peak might be running
a 3 pack of 9 ball 6 times per week. I'd say at that level, there wont be too many ppl
beating your ass down at your watering hole. But by the time you've gotten this far,
the bug will have bitten you YEARS ago...and you'd have figured out by now that you
are limiting yourself. Your inner ego wont settle for that. It will demand you continue to
improve, forcing you to move up to the 9', tournament play, a 1 week pool camp that
cost your wife her vacation to Italy, leading to your divorce - allowing you more time to
play pool. Now you've peaked again.
Guess what? THIS peak, you go back to your well maintained valley barbox with
4.25" pockets, simonis 860....and run 10 packs. You beat the ghost 43-12 w/o BIH.
Now you must ask yourself....Which one is your full potential? the first one or the
second one?
ps, this is what happens when you put me on a 12 hr shift, on my ass, in front of a computer.
of ALLLL the different popular games being played today...8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball,
14.1, rotation, 1 hole, Golf, Banks......you only ever see 8 ball in the average bar
with a couple 7' valleys. Mix in a little 9 ball for towns with leagues...but thats about
it.
Back to the definition of "full potential". If you have absolutely NO desire or intention
to move up into the 9' world, then you can reach your full potential IN THAT CIRCLE.
Whatever level you can get to on a 7' valley is your peak. Your peak might be running
a 3 pack of 9 ball 6 times per week. I'd say at that level, there wont be too many ppl
beating your ass down at your watering hole. But by the time you've gotten this far,
the bug will have bitten you YEARS ago...and you'd have figured out by now that you
are limiting yourself. Your inner ego wont settle for that. It will demand you continue to
improve, forcing you to move up to the 9', tournament play, a 1 week pool camp that
cost your wife her vacation to Italy, leading to your divorce - allowing you more time to
play pool. Now you've peaked again.
Guess what? THIS peak, you go back to your well maintained valley barbox with
4.25" pockets, simonis 860....and run 10 packs. You beat the ghost 43-12 w/o BIH.
Now you must ask yourself....Which one is your full potential? the first one or the
second one?
ps, this is what happens when you put me on a 12 hr shift, on my ass, in front of a computer.
There are 2 things really different about a 7' table and any other size table whether it be 9' or 25'.
1.) You may have to stroke harder more often to get the balls where you need them (both object and cue).
2.) You will have to be more accurate because A.) The pockets may be tighter B.) The distance may be larger and less forgiving because of A.
Contrary to what all the 9' elitist here say, you can work on both of these on a small table just as you can a large table to the point that you reach YOUR fullest potential with the needed skills for them.
Speed - Will you utilize that harder stroke as much on a small table as a large? No, but by working on it you will still have that skill when needed.
Accuracy - You can do 1 of 2 things to help with this beyond just accurate shoot taking. 1.) Be sure you hit center pocket (or exactly where you need to aim). Don't just be happy with using the larger margin of error the larger pockets and shorter shelf may allow on a bar box. Make it your goal to hit exactly where you need to and leave the cue where needed every time. 2.) Modify your table in some way that the pockets are not so easy so you are forced to be more accurate in ball pocketing.
I have a Valley table and practice 3 shots quite often.
1.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball stopping dead.
2.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball following the object ball into the pocket.
3.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball drawing back to the opposite corner of the object ball.
1 - I use different levels of draw to account for how hard I hit it so it is sliding thus stopping after contact.
2 - I go from just enough to follow it a diamond or so, to barely following it in the pocket, to as hard as my break shot.
3 - I go from just enough to draw it back a diamond or so to as hard as my break shot.
If you can consistently do those 3 shots with extreme accuracy at extreme speeds and all between, then there isn't a table you can't handle regardless of what the naysayers here say.
1.) You may have to stroke harder more often to get the balls where you need them (both object and cue).
2.) You will have to be more accurate because A.) The pockets may be tighter B.) The distance may be larger and less forgiving because of A.
Contrary to what all the 9' elitist here say, you can work on both of these on a small table just as you can a large table to the point that you reach YOUR fullest potential with the needed skills for them.
Speed - Will you utilize that harder stroke as much on a small table as a large? No, but by working on it you will still have that skill when needed.
Accuracy - You can do 1 of 2 things to help with this beyond just accurate shoot taking. 1.) Be sure you hit center pocket (or exactly where you need to aim). Don't just be happy with using the larger margin of error the larger pockets and shorter shelf may allow on a bar box. Make it your goal to hit exactly where you need to and leave the cue where needed every time. 2.) Modify your table in some way that the pockets are not so easy so you are forced to be more accurate in ball pocketing.
I have a Valley table and practice 3 shots quite often.
1.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball stopping dead.
2.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball following the object ball into the pocket.
3.) Corner to corner equal distance straight in shot with the cue ball drawing back to the opposite corner of the object ball.
1 - I use different levels of draw to account for how hard I hit it so it is sliding thus stopping after contact.
2 - I go from just enough to follow it a diamond or so, to barely following it in the pocket, to as hard as my break shot.
3 - I go from just enough to draw it back a diamond or so to as hard as my break shot.
If you can consistently do those 3 shots with extreme accuracy at extreme speeds and all between, then there isn't a table you can't handle regardless of what the naysayers here say.