Can't get my stroke straight. AARf

[Scott Lee]

Sir...You are mistaken in your assessment here. Steering the cue comes from tension in the forward stroke...which may come from overflexing the bicep, or from too much grip pressure...or both (neither of which are addressed, nor 'corrected' by using the UBC). Saying that one shouldn't touch the cue with the index finger, when shooting a draw shot, is also nonsense. A person can hold the cue anyway they see fit, as long as the grip remains the same throughout the stroke. Length of followthrough has ZERO bearing on how well, or how much draw you get, with your stroke. I saw your product first hand, and tried it myself. It is, imo, another 'gimmick', that will help some people, and that is fine. It is, however, like most things, not a 'magic bullit', nor necessary to help someone find their correct stance and alignment to the shot. Also, as mentioned, your advertisement belongs in the FOR SALE forum, not the instructor forum.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hi Solartje,

I am glad you have seemed to fix your stroke. I have invented a tool to check your alignment and stroke. It is dead simple but it has helped many players already. When our body and cue is not aligned perfectly our subconscious wants to correct this. This leads to steering. Another point is that you should not touch the cue with your index finger when your going to play a draw stroke and your going far through the cue ball-athourwise your gonna steer each time.
I post you a link to the training aid: (Ultimate billiard coach)

Best EKKES

http://infinite-billiards.com/en/The_UBC.html

 

[Solartje]

im having the same troubles again. Had some very hard months at work with hardly any practice... ill guess ill read this post again and start all over with all the trying and video taping.


ps the short times when i do have time to play, ive been playing around with playing 1 handed to straighten my stroke. If it isn't perfectly straight you can't play one handed, because the forward movement will make the cue slide from the rail... as soon as the cue is on the rail, i bend down and start doing warmup strokes, my shoulder auto-corrects itself as soon as it starts gliding from one way to the other. frustrating is: at this moment i play better one handed (made a run of 25 in straight pool) then im with both hands and i can make some CRAZY difficult longpots that would even the best around..

this can only mean one thing. my body aligment is the cause of everything (what i already suspected after this thread). i can reduce the influence by using a very short backstroke and long forward stroke, but thats not what i want. i want to be able to do a big slow backstroke and then power it in when i need to by slowly accelerating rather then very rapid acceleration with a very short backswing...

Man a straight stroke is SO hard to maintain.... never thought this would be the hardest thing to learn in pool....

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[pooltchr]

I sometimes have my students practice their stroke with their eyes closed. When you take away the visual aspect, the only thing you can do is feel the stroke. I use little stickers on the table, have them line up, close their eyes and stroke, then open their eyes and see where the tip finished.
It sounds strange, but it can be very effective in helping someone learn the feel of a straight stroke.

Steve

 

[3kushn]

I sometimes have my students practice their stroke with their eyes closed. When you take away the visual aspect, the only thing you can do is feel the stroke. I use little stickers on the table, have them line up, close their eyes and stroke, then open their eyes and see where the tip finished.
It sounds strange, but it can be very effective in helping someone learn the feel of a straight stroke.

Steve

I haven't read this entire thread and was simply going to suggest to pay attention to where the tip lands. But I've taken your suggestion a little further I think by placing a dot on an old CB with a sharpie pen (in leu of a training ball) and observe the chalk mark. Doing this with eyes closed should be a big plus to the drill.

Down to the basement I go with my eyes closed.

 

[Ratta]

I sometimes have my students practice their stroke with their eyes closed. When you take away the visual aspect, the only thing you can do is feel the stroke. I use little stickers on the table, have them line up, close their eyes and stroke, then open their eyes and see where the tip finished.
It sounds strange, but it can be very effective in helping someone learn the feel of a straight stroke.

Steve

I also like this part; so the student get an idea about the *point of no return* in the pre-stroke/stroke process- and even so learns to *believe* in his mechanics. After gettin all informations, and done all the *homework* like pep etc there s no need to let your eyes open (usualy )

lg,
Ingo

 

[pooltchr]

I often tell beginning students that before the first day is done, I will have them making shots with their eyes closed. They usually look at me like I'm nuts, but they are believers by the end of day one!

Steve

 

[Ratta]

Saw an instructor doing this *closed eyes* stroke on a snooker-table a bit ago ...with the blue ball on spot and the cueball about 2 metres far away shooting it diagonal into the cornerpocket-that was really impressive for the students (for me also watching it from some metres away ).

 

[Mark Avlon]

Saw an instructor doing this *closed eyes* stroke on a snooker-table a bit ago ...with the blue ball on spot and the cueball about 2 metres far away shooting it diagonal into the cornerpocket-that was really impressive for the students (for me also watching it from some metres away ).

It is impressive. What it takes is a good stance, good alignment, a straight smooth stroke, and an accurate aim. The funny thing is, anyone can do it (on a pool table :wink with a some training and practice.

 

[pooltchr]

What it takes is a good stance, good alignment, a straight smooth stroke, and an accurate aim.

Oddly enough, all things that we spend a considerable amount of time on in pool school!

:smile:

Steve

 

[Solartje]

hi all, thanks for the reactions.

I actually also play pool eyes-closed from time to time. i think its the best confidence builder and really makes you focus on the stroke, fading all the rest out. i should do it more often !!


well after spending some days working on the stroke again (after that 1 horrible day), i'm very close to finaly having all the flaws smoothed out again (+1 i only noticed this week).

Im back to the more snooker-stance. feeth closer, backleg straight, body ligned up with the shot, rather then the 45°.
This + the changes in my hand (tumb down tric), closed eye and one handed eye training of the stroke itself

results:
- im drawing the cueball twice as far with 25% less force used. i loooove the increased cuepower! really helps missing less shots, as im not using my shoulder anymore to generate cuepower, but im using my stroke to its maximum.

- training: spread 10balls around on the table (no big clusters), BIH, my record was running a 3 pack. I run an amazing 7-pack this weekend while the wife was watching. i just laughed it off as unbelieve.. out of this world for me

- state championship: ps: best result in the last 3 years was 13th place.

monday was the qualifiers, i lost my first match (although i played alot better, I had some horrible run of the balls), straight to the loser-side, but i managed to win every single match after that, and qualify for the next day.

wendsday was the Last 24, i managed to win every match there (some 5-0 included), and i finished in 3th place :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: (losing to the winner of the state championship, a ex snookerplayer with loads of century's under his belt). This beats the crap out of any tournament result i ever had!!! i beat loads of players who i consider being ALOT better all-round, but my pot was amazing. i don't think ive missed more then 1 ball /match. either a clearance or a scratch/snooker.


happy solly !!!!!!

 

[sigep1967]

This whole thread shoud be a sticky! there is some really good info and insights in this about stroking the cueball. this thread plus a new cue have improved me about 2 balls in a week. Amazing!!

 

[Mark Avlon]

Congratulations on your efforts to correct you mechanics and the success its given you!

If something falls apart later, I'm sure you're in a good position to easily fix it.

 

[Descente36]

OHere's a few tips I've learned over the years.

Don't think simply about hitting the cueball, the most important factor is how straight the cue pushes THROuGH the cueball.

One aspect of stroking many players forget about or totally ignore is timing. Time your stroke so that the cue tip hits the cueball at the very bottom of the pendulum. Hitting the cueball at the same phase of the pendulum every time ensures consistency.

ACCELERATE your stroke through the cueball just prior to impact.

you'll notice many pros will pause right before the final follow-through stroke. This gives them time to visualize or feel the stroke right before stroking. Stroking is all about feel.

Try flicking your wrist into the stroke. Great players like Willie Mosconi subtly flick their wrist into every shot. Its another great way to generate consistency. Time the wrist flick to just a moment before impact to accelerate through the cue ball.

Remember, every pro has their own stance and method of stroking. There is no official method of stroking

 

[pooltchr]

OHere's a few tips I've learned over the years.

Don't think simply about hitting the cueball, the most important factor is how straight the cue pushes THROuGH the cueball.

Take it even a step further. Don't think about hitting the ball. Just think about finishing your stroke. If you set it up properly, finishing your stroke is automatically going to result in the cue hitting the ball.

One aspect of stroking many players forget about or totally ignore is timing. Time your stroke so that the cue tip hits the cueball at the very bottom of the pendulum. Hitting the cueball at the same phase of the pendulum every time ensures consistency.

Again, this will happen if you set up properly to begin with.

Good points.

Steve

 

[Solartje]

If something falls apart later, I'm sure you're in a good position to easily fix it.

exactly if you see the post where i lost it, and my last post, it only took me 1 hour to read this thread again, and 2h/day of stroke training to get back in there.

I agree this thread has many many good comments. sometimes it easy to explain something and hard to really understand it, and actually do what has been said correctly without having someone to watch over you.

thanks to the digital camera's to help us out.

I'll post a new small vid of the new stroke when i find some time.


ps something i have adjusted: when i started, i was holding the cue at 90° arm at CB impact, over time i prefered to hold the cue around 3-4 inches closer to the joint.

i have seen alot of good players to it, and here on the forums i have read that it isn't really a problem as long as the stroke is consistent. now after training and analysing, i have found that im as consistent with holding them at 90° and slightly further (hitting CB at same point every time)

BUT !!!

there is one thing that i didnt think of: By holding the cue closer to the joint, the cuetip won't travel as far at the end of the stroke, because at impact with cb my hand is closer to the end of the pendulum.

the thing is: you automaticaly have a shorter folow true if you hold the cue closer to the joint. so i have changed that too, and probably it is one of the reasons why im having more cuepower.

accelaration: been playing with this around, and i have watched snookerplayers alot lately, because they have (in my eyes) the best accelaration/timing. i think besides the longer folow through, this is also giving me more cuepower: after the pauze, as soon as the cue moves, im starting the pendulum alot slower, this does that i have to accelerate faster to get at the same speed at CB impact. (the pauze and slower speed in the beginning, makes the back to forward movement less jurky), and the higher acceleration needed, makes sure 1/ I accelerate 2/better stroke

easyest way to explain the acceleration is. if you would have a Time/speed diagram, you would have a arc instead of a straight line. the acceleration is not constant, but slowly increases.

:thumbup: thanks for all the tips, and i hope others have some use of my tips.


ps i played another final this weekend... thingq are falling into place

im sure that 99% of the C/D/B level players would increase several balls, by taking the time to REALLY understand what a good straight accelerated stroke with enough folow through and a good body position is and does....


ps hand flick: how do you do this? could you draw or post a link to a video?

 

[Mark Avlon]

there is one thing that i didnt think of: By holding the cue closer to the joint, the cuetip won't travel as far at the end of the stroke, because at impact with cb my hand is closer to the end of the pendulum.

the thing is: you automaticaly have a shorter folow true if you hold the cue closer to the joint. so i have changed that too, and probably it is one of the reasons why im having more cuepower.

With a good set position, being forward of perpendicular won't cause a problem as long as your tip is close to the cue ball in the set position. It will shorten your follow through, but that's not a problem. You don't need to make it longer than that, and doing so doesn't serve any purpose.

To increase power, you simply need to accelerate faster, or increase the length of your back swing to allow for a longer time to accelerate.

Keep in mind that the length of the back swing is a trade off between accuracy and power. The length of your back swing needs to allow for a smooth acceleration of the cue for the power you want, while maintaining accuracy. The better your mechanics are, the easier it is to use power accurately.

 

[Mark Avlon]

I agree this thread has many many good comments. sometimes it easy to explain something and hard to really understand it, and actually do what has been said correctly without having someone to watch over you.

And if that someone is a good instructor, improvements come fast and easy. It's amazing how may struggling players would rather try to learn the hard way, when good instructors are available.

 

[Descente36]

here's Efren Reyes' stroke. Check out the looseness in his wrist and the position of his wrist after the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6sKPP9nuis&feature=player_embedded#

 

[Solartje]

i wanted to thank EVERY single one in this thread for helping me.... you have helped me SO much, and after 4 years of playing pool, i finaly made it, i won my first tittel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm the new 2010 KING of 8-ball :thumbup:

you can read the story here if you want:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2332238#post2332238