Can't Improve. Should I quit?

CurvedCue

CurvedCue

Registered
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.
 
CurvedCue said:
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.
Click to expand...



Where are you based?

I am doing a coaching tour starting next month and will be able to help you.

Lee
 
Practice game

Do you see a marked difference between your practice game and your competitive game ? Performance anxiety could be at the heart of your trouble.

How about the eyes ? Maybe you need an exam or contacts instead of glasses, etc.

Pre hiatus ? How badly has your game dropped off ? You say worse than ever, but did you used to run 4 / 5 / 6 or more balls at a time ?

Most here play this game for enjoyment. If you don't like losing to people with poor fundamentals then don't feel alone, but play your own game and ignore your opponent in that situation. Only emulate those who have a form similar to yours, assuming your playing with good form.

You may need to focus more on ball making at this point and once you gain confidence, then you can tune up your CB position. Good Luck.
 
CurvedCue said:
I recently took up pool again after a long hiatus and find myself not only much worse than I ever was, but also unable to improve, even marginally, despite hours of practice.

I joined an APA league, but am getting annihilated every week and by guys whose stance, bridge, fundamentals, etc, look god-awful, but who NEVER miss. Meanwhile, I'm OCS about that stuff, but can't make a shot.

I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo). For example, my estimation of the tangent line is often off by 40-50 degrees!

And when I try to practice the diagrammed drills in books, I can't recreate the shots. For example, there's a "simple" draw cut shot in 99 Critical Shots, but every time I do it, the cue ball NEVER follows the path as shown in the book, but diverges in a TOTALLY DIFFERENT path. This is despite trying up to a 100 times! :angry:

So are there people who simply should not be playing pool? Just as there are midgets who shouldn't be playing basketball? Am I too geometrically-challenged?
I did flunk geometry in high school, btw. :(

I just want an honest appraisal. That way I won't expect anything more of myself, and try to accept that I'm genetically handicapped in regards to this game.
Click to expand...

I used to do a lot of drills, took lessons etc and honestly believe the one thing that helped my game was when I started going places to play tourneys and gamble. I know everyone says that but it honestly is what made the difference.
 
How old are you & what would make you 'happy'?

If you understand the concepts & can hit the cue ball where intend & then still play very poorly, you may a have a 'vision', 'sighting', 'shot line' type problem.

There is a new guy in town & in my hall that you would never think could play if you just looked at his stance, set up position, but he get's it done quite well, 'his way'.

He has made accommodations for his body that allows him to play rather well.

Who can give you any real advice sight unseen. If you could post a video you would get planty of opinions. One might click for you.

What ever the outcome & whatever you decide to do...

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
CurvedCue said:
I practice drills, I read books, I take lessons. Nothing seems to help. Only seems to further my overall sense of mass confusion. For example, I understand the basic concepts of Stun, Follow, Draw, Tangent Lines, 30-degree Rule, etc, but when I come up to the table that all goes right out the window and I only see a morass of unbelievable complexity and soul-crushing chaos. (Excuse the hyperbolic lingo).
Click to expand...

You are trying too hard with your head and not allowing your body to simply connect the dots.

Stop the drills and books for 2 weeks and just practice hitting balls, alone. Anything you miss, set back up and then shoot it 5 times in a row before moving forward.
 
Do not quit.....men do not walk away from a challenge....we overcome adversity and if we don't have the initial resources, then we get what's needed.......at the moment, ..the problem is between your ears.

Hook up with a more skilled player and practice 8, 9 & 10 ball. Each game has a different strategy and cue ball position control is paramount in any of these games or any others I would suppose. Discuss the shots you missed and why and also the ones you made but didn't get the right shape. The reasons for your misses will be more apparent, and your mechanical flaws will be identified and addressed.

A starting point is to get a copy of Jerry Breisath's 3 CD set about pool........it's the best one for a novice or someone looking to re-find those old skills that are buried behind other stuff in your brain. The video will open the pool file in your head and this will refresh everything you knew and expand areas you were weak on.

Remember that pool is game played entirely for your own satisfaction..........Don't let it become a tedious or you'll quit........Enjoy the game for your great moments......the difficult shot you made look easy........mastery of cue ball position...........the run-out..............remember even Bobby Hull would have to master the basics all over again if he wanted to get on the ice again..........Nothing is more important or as valuable as good mechanics.

Commit to becoming better instead of recalling how you previously played...........in your practice routine, incorporate some check points instead of just racking and banging balls......learn the limits of your stroke........how many diamonds distance between the cue ball and object ball are you confident in drawing the cue ball and what kind of draw control do you have........same thing with a stop shot......learn your limits so you can easily recognize when you're confronted with an object ball sitting close to or even outside your limits, i.e., the shot poses added risk. If you can't recognize potential trouble ahead of time, then you are certain to find it..........You Need To Make Playing Pool Fun Again.

It's time to conquer your annoyance with pool.......train yourself the same as if you were teaching a 15 year old novice........pay attention to your stance, bridge, head position, stoke pendulum, cue ball speed, etc. and take the time to learn the diamond system..........yes learn it not just its most popular tracks........it will save your bacon on making a shot or a legal hit to avoid giving your opponent ball in hand.........time to become a student of the game all over again............it's interesting and rewarding when you put in the effort and see the improvement.
 
Last edited:
Birriards said:
Don't quit pool.... Just quit your job and join Gene on the road so that we can have building a champion part 3
Click to expand...

This haha, I don't know what it is but it sounds right.

Sounds like you are not hitting the cue ball where you think you are. Makes me think it's an eye issue. Are you a man over 40? I find I have to focus more and more with my left eye to target balls.

Good luck,
 
Wow, did not expect to get so much feedback so quickly. I don't feel so alone now. :p

To answer briefly some things that were brought up.

I am 44. My optometrist did mention biofocals might be necessary down the road.

Yeah, back when I used to play frequently I could run 4,5,6 balls. Funny thing though was I knew nothing about "tangent lines" or "Set-Pause-Finish" or other "esoterica" back then; I just played by instinct.

Someone mentioned playing in tourneys and gambling helped his game the most. I like the idea of tourneys. Maybe I should try. Don't gamble though. I couldn't afford to lose. I'm poor.

I do wear glasses. Have noticed that sometimes the top of my frames will impede my vision of the object ball when sighting. But really, I don't think it's a major issue. I see plenty of guys shooting pretty awesomely with glasses.

I'm based in San Francisco. I know there's a number of famous teachers here, like Bob Jewett. I opted for lessons with my local house pro, who's also well-known and a nice guy.

Lee, are you coming to the West Coast?

Honestly, though, I was thinking more like a group clinic or weekend thing might benefit me more. That way there's an opportunity to converse and practice with my fellow classmates. (It's so boring to practice alone!) Right now, I don't have any opportunity to talk shop with people. The good players don't want to be bothered and everyone else doesn't seem interested in Tangent Lines or why low-left would've been better on a certain shot.
 
Stun/tangent line

After a layoff, I work a lot on this concept.

Hit straight in's at varying distances. Hit firm/medium. Get the cueball to stop (or spin a little in place?). Once comfortable with the 'stop-stun" straight in, set up the shot with small angle and hit same solid stop-stun shot...note the path of the cue ball. Gradually increase the cut angle, and with same good stun shot, note the cball path.

With luck, the tangent line/stun line will reveal itself. If hit properly (sliding) the cb will start down a line 90 degrees to the object ball path line. Visually predicting that line may be a little more difficult. (stretch out your forefinger and thumb like a make- believe child's pistol until they resemble the corner legs of a square....envision, or place hand on table overlaying the direction of the ob path....and see the initial tangent line path.

You might try a sheet of photocopier paper -one side along the ob path, the other adjacent side will show the 90 degree path of the cb, if hit with sliding stun.


You'll get this with some work. Once gotten, not forgotten. Might need practice..but, that's why we practice...both what we can do, and especially what is giving us trouble.

So many other good things about cb control/shape/ single and multiple rail shape..start from the tangent line concept,it's a must have. Once you have the tangent/stun line down....adjusting that line with a rolling or drawing cb is that much easier.

Hang in there. Everything is tough in pool until it's not.

Have fun..


EDIT:

be sure and re-post your thread in the 'instructor forum' where the most helpful suggestions will likely lie. We recognize your pain and frustration...whereas they may be able to help fix it for you. take care
 
Last edited:
I have a fairly unorthodox stroke and some would say my fundamentals are garbage but that garbage stroke is usually dead straight so judge all you want. My first mistake after a long hiatus was switching from standard maple shafts to multiple brands of LD shafts and then back to standard maple. I was on and off so often I didn't know which way was up or down and the table layouts that should be simple; turned quickly into a huge mess in my head. I want you to know that you're not the only one who has had issues and if you really love the game, you can't quit. You can talk about it but it's always there.

What kind of equipment are you playing on?
Diamond manufactures incredible tables but they also can be incredibly difficult when you're not hitting as straight as you would like. Most rooms that hold Gold Crowns have pockets between 4-1/2" to 5" and that is going to make huge difference when it comes to percentage of balls pocketed and building confidence. Valley or Dynamo also have ball eating pockets but I assume by the level of your frustration that you are in fact playing on Diamonds.

Are you aligned properly?
After a while of not playing it is easy to come back to the game with a different stance that may be comfortable to you but pulls you out of alignment. If you continue to play like this it becomes part of the routine and trust me when I say breaking new habits is just as bad as breaking old ones.

If I read this correctly you are playing as a hobby and even competitive hobbies should be fun right? Don't let your head get in the way of what your arm wants to do. Sports in general require a fair bit of instinct and experience rather than all out brain power. Try to give yourself a break and just hit balls for the sake of hitting balls before starting to work with drills that may be frustrating you right now.


In any case, the best of luck to you and I hope it turns around for you soon.
 
Last edited:
I got my first pair of eyeglasses at your same age. Over time, my eye doctor has blended the strength of my reading prescription lenses with my lenses prescription for distance viewing and came up with a combination for playing pool. Essentially, my pool eyewear prescription uses a weaker reading strength and a stronger distance strength so that my pool lens prescription is really a hybrid of the two that's intended for viewing at distances ranging from 2-3' to12-15' viewing with the greatest clarity for my eyes.......something to consider if you ever reach that stage of eyesight limitations.
 
Last edited:
Advise all but the most very talented to just sit back and enjoy the game. Don't quit, but find a few friends who you can hammer without trying and be a legend in your own lunchtime.

Far less stressful that trying to achieve something you cannot possibly be.
 
After a hiatus from pool I notice that I play like a champ on the first rack because all the bad habits have gone away but I play worst on the 2nd rack and beyond till I get it all together again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top