Can't stand to watch "bangers" play anymore?

Billy_Bob said:
Yes that is it exactly! I feel I am becoming a "snob" with my pool playing.

-Will only play certain players above a certain skill level if I can.
-And now seem to not even want to watch lower skilled players shoot.

And this is REALLY weird for me. I hate snobs generally. I am down to earth, wear T-shirts, etc. Total opposite of the "country club" types.

But I have been hanging around better players lately. They have been advising me to do just this. That is to *not* play lesser skilled players. They are telling me it will drag my game down. They say to only play the best players I can find.

So I guess I'm torn between being my regular "common" self or being a "pool snob".

I am quickly seeing the advantages of only playing better players though. There is an "A" player who I could never beat before and who I hated to play with because he always ran the table on me. Well now I am playing him regularly and starting to win games when playing him. He does not seem so difficult to beat anymore.

And I am getting the feeling that he is going to stop wanting to play me soon. I have gone through this a lot. I start winning games against someone, then they don't want to play me anymore. I see a certain look in their eyes when I walk in the door. They don't look happy to see me.

No one else wants to play this guy usually (because he wins so much), so this will be interesting to see what happens - if I start winning more games against him. Will he refuse to play me or continue playing me?
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If everybody had UR attitude and never played lesser guys, then why would an A player want to play U??? :p :eek:

So since U improved so much in UR 2 years of playing seriously, who have U beaten? There's a *lot* of good players there, have U ever played in a tournamant besides a bar tournamant, and can you name some of the *really good* players that U beat??

Brian
 
Billy_Bob said:
Yes that is it exactly! I feel I am becoming a "snob" with my pool playing.

-Will only play certain players above a certain skill level if I can.
-And now seem to not even want to watch lower skilled players shoot.

And this is REALLY weird for me. I hate snobs generally. I am down to earth, wear T-shirts, etc. Total opposite of the "country club" types.

But I have been hanging around better players lately. They have been advising me to do just this. That is to *not* play lesser skilled players. They are telling me it will drag my game down. They say to only play the best players I can find.

So I guess I'm torn between being my regular "common" self or being a "pool snob".

I am quickly seeing the advantages of only playing better players though. There is an "A" player who I could never beat before and who I hated to play with because he always ran the table on me. Well now I am playing him regularly and starting to win games when playing him. He does not seem so difficult to beat anymore.

And I am getting the feeling that he is going to stop wanting to play me soon. I have gone through this a lot. I start winning games against someone, then they don't want to play me anymore. I see a certain look in their eyes when I walk in the door. They don't look happy to see me.

No one else wants to play this guy usually (because he wins so much), so this will be interesting to see what happens - if I start winning more games against him. Will he refuse to play me or continue playing me?
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Billy, it is common for someone as involved with the game as you are to become very critical (of yourself and others).

But I do believe there is such a thing as being hypercritical. I admittedly have had similar moments to yours until it hit me: I felt *threatened* by bangers because I've put so much into improving my game, and they remind me of where I started not long ago.

Bangers bother me less and less. Partially because my focus is improving, but also because I realized that I was looking for someone to criticize so I could distance myself from them.

Ego games play in everyone's mind, but we're not forced to give it credit. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had my first PERFECTLY constructive practice session on a table right next to these loud teenagers who scooped the CB off the table every other shot. I never even looked their way. Why? Because I wasn't looking to distance myself from them...

Like sjm, I today have more tolerance for a total beginner with a sincere interest in the game, than a swaggering B player who whines after every miss wishing he was a pro.
 
Billy_Bob said:
I am quickly seeing the advantages of only playing better players though. There is an "A" player who I could never beat before and who I hated to play with because he always ran the table on me. Well now I am playing him regularly and starting to win games when playing him. He does not seem so difficult to beat anymore.
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When/If you become an "A" player, will you play lesser skilled players and lend them a hand? Like other have done to you?
 
APA7 said:
If everybody had UR attitude and never played lesser guys, then why would an A player want to play U??? :p :eek:
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The have *not* wanted to play me up till now except for a couple of them.

APA7 said:
So since U improved so much in UR 2 years of playing seriously, who have U beaten? There's a *lot* of good players there, have U ever played in a tournamant besides a bar tournamant, and can you name some of the *really good* players that U beat??
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Well let's keep this in perspective. I live in a rural area which has some not so skilled players. Then there are medium sized towns nearby with better players. And then large cities further away with very good players. Then the pros.

So on a scale of 0 to 20, 20 being best or pro, there are a lot of 0's around here. I am working my way up to about a "5" on the scale of things.

So I'm not going around beating any "names". But I am improving at a steady pace. And playing only the best players (for around here that means 10's on a scale of 0 to 20), I have had a good "boost" in the right direction.
 
Billy Bob, Read your post.
You say you only want to play those who are better than you. If they felt the same way, they wouldn't play you at all because you aren't good enough. Why should they play someone lower skilled than they? Now you worry that you get better, and nobody will want to play against you. So basically, your theory would be that nobody should ever play anyone else unless they are evenly matched. If that happened, pool halls would be closing up all over the country. Like I said before, you can learn something from everyone you play. Don't limit yourself. And get off this BS about how good I am or how good someone else is compared to me. JUST PLAY THE GAME!!!!! There is always going to be someone you can beat, and always someone who is going to beat you. Live with it!
Steve
 
APA7 said:
If everybody had UR attitude and never played lesser guys, then why would an A player want to play U??? :p :eek:

So since U improved so much in UR 2 years of playing seriously, who have U beaten? There's a *lot* of good players there, have U ever played in a tournamant besides a bar tournamant, and can you name some of the *really good* players that U beat??

Brian
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Great questions. One of the best ways to force oneself to improve and play all manner of opponents is to play in a handicapped 9 ball tournament at a real pool hall, not just a bar.

What'll happen is you'll play against everybody, including pro players and former pro players. Even with the handicap, any pro is a formidable opponent who will have to play you well if he's going to win. At the same time, you'll definitely come up against bangers and will have to beat them. Two different games.

There are some things that can be done to minimize the negative effects of playing bangers, like not watching them shoot. Just withdraw psychologically into your own zone, even if you aren't in the zone, and focus on the table in front of you. Zone everything else out, as much as you can. And realize those bangers can beat you. Once you realize that, your respect of their bangin' game will force you to play a better game.

Ego certainly plays a big part in all this too.

There's a fellow who can cream me when it comes to a straight up match. So when we play, he always makes the race one he will most likely win, giving me games on the wire. We never play for money, for him it's the ego thing. And he HATES it when people start banging balls around. So I told him that if I ever draw him in a real tournament that I know how to play him. I'll be juicing the 9 whenever it's safe to do so. It makes him sick. He hates to see the balls all rearranged again and again. That's his problem.

Turns out that when I play him, even when he's giving me a lot of weight, in these cases he'll go to 8 and I'll go to 4, after a few sets where he's beaten me thoroughly, I'll tell him that this next set I'm going to do my level best to win. And I tell him I want him to know that. It's as if we're playing in a tournament for all the jelly beans, and he knows I'm going to really try to take him down. I'll not be working on any part of my game. I'll do my best to crush him. Guess what happens once we start to play? Well, I bring out a totally different game than the one he's been playing against. And it spooks him. He realizes I just might beat him with the weight he's given up. Every time we've started a set like that we get going on the first game, which one of us will win, and then he'll start a conversation about how his game is at a much higher level, that he is working on doing this or that, blah blah blah... And then a little while later, he'll say he has to leave shortly. As far as I can remember, we've never finished one of those sets where I've told him I'm going to do my level best against him.

Why? His ego.

There's another thing about those matches in the handicapped 9 ball tourneys. When you come up against a vastly superior player, and you give him your best game, and you know he's given you his, and you end up winning "fair and square" without goosing the 9 ball, that will give you an incredible sense of accomplishment, especially if you win before he even gets near the hill. Those sorts of wins are tremendous boosters. I never forget those matches. And if you played him hard, and won, if he's a decent fellow, you might just win his respect, and even make a friend. It's happened for me, it can for you.

Just my two cents worth, I could be wrong.

Flex
 
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lewdo26 said:
When/If you become an "A" player, will you play lesser skilled players and lend them a hand? Like other have done to you?
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I sure as heck will (If they ask)!

I do this now. Actually it is a problem for me. Few players in my local area want to play me anymore because I can win so easily. So I am sharing my knowledge with anyone who asks. (I don't tell people anything if they don't ask.)

I *want* everyone else in my area to improve. Then I will have stiffer competition. I even bought a copy of Dr. Dave's book and left it in the local bar. Unfortunately only the best players are reading the book - not the people it will help the most.
 
I mentioned in another thread about a friend of mine giving me a hard time for letting lessor players beat me. He said, "[If you don't beat these lessor players aat will, then you'll never beat the good ones when the opportunity arises.]" He made me play them and beat them at will....this really helped my attitude during tournaments and league play. Watching lessor players helped me to beat them more often than I was beating them, if that makes sense.

Use whatever is in front of you to acheive, imho.

Oh...you're not a snob...from your posts, I know you're passing through the steepest part of the learning curve, so changes are coming rapidly to your pool environment and you're in the process of learning to adapt to them, imho.

Give 'em hell...keep us informed.

Jeff Livingston
 
Billy_Bob said:
...But I have been hanging around better players lately. They have been advising me to do just this. That is to *not* play lesser skilled players. They are telling me it will drag my game down. They say to only play the best players I can find....
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I agree and disagree with these statements.

To an extent, yes...playing with lesser skilled players can drag down your game...but only if you let it.

If you're conscious of the fact that the person you're playing with sucks, then it will probably affect your game. However, if you just focus on the layout of the table, then the ability of the person you're competing with is completely irrelevant. In pool, you play the table, not the person.

But of course by playing someone better than you, you can pick up a few pointers by watching him play. The same probably cannot be said by observing bangers (unless you're Efren). But there really should be no excuse to have your game be dragged down by playing with someone with inferior skills.

Actually, now that I'm posting this, I think it would be a good idea to play your share of games with these bangers, and focus your attention on trying to maintain your (relatively) higher standard of play. Concentrate on obliterating them...take no prisoners, have no mercy. In any tournament you enter, you will have first round matches with players of lesser skill. If you let your guard down and let their game drag your game down, then you might maintain that same level of play throughout the tournament.

So I say go bang on those bangers! ;)
 
Billy Bob,

I'm a LOT of things, but a pool snob isn't one of them. I don't mind playing anyone, although I'm not a big gambler, I just like to play and like a challenge. If a "banger" wants a game, hell, I'll give him the Orange Crush right out of the gate and we'll get it on. You give someone the 5 and out and you better bring your game. If Efren came to town, I'd play him and give it everything I've got. My point is, that if I never played a lesser player, then I'd never have ANY right to b!#ch about not being able to get a game with a better player. If you think playing lesser players will hurt your game, then give them a spot from hell so you'll have to bring your game.

I know one pro player that gives HUGE one pocket spots up to people that don't need a spot. Why? Because it makes him bring his game... ALL OF IT!

So, BB, when you start feeling a little snobbish, challenge one of the guys you call bangers to a race to 11 and give him the breaks, the wild 8 and 7 on the wire. Hell, maybe offer them the break and the 3,5, 7 & 9. That'll take the snob out of you in a hurry. If you can outrun that every time, then you can stick your nose as high in the air as you want.

Later,
Bob
 
I find it challenging to play lessor player, especially "bangers" at the bar. Although I much prefer to play BCA rules, playing bar rules once in a while reminds me the dangers of running my balls out with out a clear shot at the 8. And in bar rules if you miss the 8......... you just beat yourself.

I find that players with less skill are very inventive with thier shot making sometimes.

Hell I just like to play pool and if someone else is plugging the table, I'm happy to play them.:D
 
I've read that a certain player, highly regarded as one of the best ever to pick up a cue, watches "bangers" because he can learn things from them. They try things pros don't normally try because they don't know any better. They play accidental safeties (sometimes fantastic/mind-boggling accidental safeties!). They get crazy 5 rail banks to drop. Yes, most of the time those crazy shots are luck, but that doesn't matter. What matters is being able to recognize that sometimes, the crazy shots are the right shots to play.

For instance, I once saw a "banger" try a 3 rail bank shot (a classic corner 5 attempt with an object ball) on the 1 ball (this is 9 ball). He didn't make the ball (in fact, he didn't even come close), but what he did do was line up a 1-9 combo and leave the CB frozen between the rail and the 7, leaving an impossible kick. To this day, I'll never forget that shot. I'll also never forget that he botched the ensuing 1-9 combo with BIH, but that's beside the point :D . The point is that I learned a very good, solid, safety play strategy that I've used quite a few times over the years - from a guy who couldn't run three balls.

There are always things to be learned at the table, regardless of who's playing. A player who takes note of those things simply adds to his knowledge base. Those little tidbits can spark creativity at the table which might defy conventional wisdom. The real wisdom lies in being able to recognize that a shot a "banger" played (either on purpose or accidentally) might be useful.

By the way, that certain player mentioned in the first sentence of this post? Efren "The Magician" Reyes.

-djb
 
Bangers can be bangers, but sometimes they'll surprise you.

I recently started playing in a couple of semi-local bar-banger style tournaments - just a bunch of the local guys, pretty much the same crowd every week. Bar rules (BIH in the kitchen on scratches, got to call caroms, etc) to a fault. Each match is one game of 8-ball.

So far in these tournaments I'm pretty much batting .500 - I've taken 1st or 2nd half the time, and gone out early the other half (this is after about eight of these nights total, I think). And I find, on those nights I don't do well, it's because I'm not taking it seriously enough - I'm "playing down" to these guys, because I'm assuming "Bah! These guys are bangers, I should win, no problem" - and I pooch it.

This past week was a good example - one guy I was playing, I won the flip for the break - broke, ran six balls, and had a PAINFULLY EASY out on the three and the eight - and blew the easy cut on the three. Grr. Other guy steps up, runs two or three, scratches. I've got another easy out - stop shot on the three in the corner, eight in the other corner. As I go to shoot the three, I lose focus and LOOK AWAY for some reason - and blow it. Other guy runs out.

I lost focus because I assumed that I had won the game already. Bad assumption!
 
ScottW said:
I lost focus because I assumed that I had won the game already. Bad assumption!
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did that yesterday. didn't like it. :mad:

-s

on the bangers -- i go to the local pool bar once or twice a week and play just about anyone who racks 'em. this can go either way, playing drunks at bar rules 8, or getting $50 or $100 sets at 9-ball. i think by not getting into these games, you're missing out on not only a chance at a game, you're losing a chance to make someone else improve (or at least become more interested). without new players coming up, who's gonna donate in the tourneys and such? :D
 
tho I don't know you, lot of people out there would consider you a banger - and for that matter, me too.

Billy_Bob said:
I had nothing better to do Friday night, so I went and watched a local bar "banger" 8-ball tournament. They kept missing shot after shot, so were hitting harder to improve their aiming, rearranging all the balls on the table with each shot, missing about 10 times on the 8, etc.

This is a new tournament and I think being on a Friday at a bar attracted the worst of the worst.

Well I found I couldn't watch it!

I don't know what the words to describe this are... Painful to watch? Impatient to watch? Perhaps felt watching them play would rub off on me and not good for me?

Anyway I had to get out of there. I could not watch anymore of their playing.

Anyone else suddenly find they have difficulty watching bad players?
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Egg McDogit said:
tho I don't know you, lot of people out there would consider you a banger - and for that matter, me too.
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it's always relative...you're right. but he's only got his situation to work with.

-s
 
There was a thread going a while back about dead money for tournaments. Well, these bangers are where the dead money comes from, with out it, first place will get you a t-shirt and a bag of chips.
 
Bangers make some of the best shots in pool. They will go for everything and anything that remotely looks like a shot. Since every shot is as difficult as the next, as far as they are concerned, they do not tense up more or less when taking on a cross table bank shot or any other shot. They are consistant in at least this regard, lol.

I don't understand this attitude of staying away from bangers. Some of them want to improve and others just want to play to have fun. You can help them in both of these instances.

It is true, that you probably won't be running out rack after rack against a banger because the incentive and focus just isn't there. But if you just play and enjoy yourself, stop trying to impress or destroy your opponent, your stroke will loosen up and you will still play well. But it's not like playing lesser skilled players will contract a virus that takes months to recover from. Poor play only affects you if you let it.

Personally, I play anyone who asks. From Pro (REALLY RARE) to A to B to C to D to F to R to X to Z.
 
Billy Bob, my friend Bill and I have matcheds up for nearly eleven years now. He's a C player, so I need to give him a big spot in our nineball races, so I give him the five wild and two on the wire racing to nine. Believe me, I have to play my heart out to win. We don't gamble, but we both prefer a game that gives both of us a realistic chance to win.

Insist on spotting a weaker player and you will be in for a stiff test. If they refuse to accept a spot, even in a non-gambling match, you won't be out of line if you opt out of the game.

In the late 1990's, I used to play in a weekly handicap nine ball event at Chelsea Billiards, and many of the professionals from New York, New Jersey and Connecticutt played in it, along with the more accomlished amateurs in the New york area. I remember getting sizable spots from guys like George "Ginky" SanSouci, Tony Robles, Frankie Hernandez, Neptune Joe Frady, Robb Saez and Teddy Garrahan. Each of them was forced to play their best giving out the kind of weight they were required to give. SanSouci, who, shortly thereafter, went on to win several major professional titles including the BCA Open and the Derby City Classic, has told me on a few occasions that playing all those tough games giving out big spots helped his game trememdously.

Just some food for thought.
 
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