Carbide lathe insert ...

masonh said:
seems like 1/32 radius is big.
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You use different cutters for different situations, at least I do. the larger the radius - the smoother the cut. Actually, a 1/32 is to tight a radius for delrin. There are this style cutters with a smaller radius but I don't know the part numbers. The only reason that I would want a smaller radius, that I can think of off-hand, would be for cutting up to a shoulder but with a quick-change tool post it only takes a couple of seconds to throw on a sharper nosed tool for that application.

Dick
 
6-tcg-3212

Is a 1/64 radius. But, I prefer the larger radius for smooth cuts in wood, and do a touchup like Dick suggested close to the screw. I hope you guys get long life with them. I have used them for all my joint faces, but always use a router for cutting along the X axis.
 
almer said:
Did you or anybody ever get any of these
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Been meaning to post on this...

Yes I did receive my "freebies" and it cuts through maple like butter :smile:

I used it for trimming a tip up close to the ferrule as well and it did okay. I used one in a left hand tool holder for doing this. As far as the radius goes, I don't mind punching in a bit when facing the bottom of a tenon. I also de-burr the inside of my collars and rings... gets a much better glue bond IMO.

Sorry so late ;)
-Chris
 
What???

Poulos Cues said:
Been meaning to post on this...

Yes I did receive my "freebies" and it cuts through maple like butter :smile:

I used it for trimming a tip up close to the ferrule as well and it did okay. I used one in a left hand tool holder for doing this. As far as the radius goes, I don't mind punching in a bit when facing the bottom of a tenon. I also de-burr the inside of my collars and rings... gets a much better glue bond IMO.

Sorry so late ;)
-Chris
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Chris,
I hope that I'm mis-reading your statement of "punching in a bit when facing the bottom of a tenon." Please tell me that I am.
The base of a tenon should flare OUT into the face of the shaft and NOT be undercut. If I'm correct in my understanding of what you've stated, you are greatly weakening the tenon. That flared radius at the base of the tenon, which some refer to as a register, is there to provide additional strength to the tenon. The ferrule doesn't need a register, it's got 1" of 5/16" sleeve to keep it aligned.

By under-cutting the base of the tenon you are actually creating a weak point that will be inclined to flex due to side-loading the ferrule when using English. One too many flexes and it's broke.

Not looking for an argument, just sharing something that you may not be aware of.
 
KJ Cues said:
Chris,
The base of a tenon should flare OUT into the face of the shaft and NOT be undercut. If I'm correct in my understanding of what you've stated, you are greatly weakening the tenon. That flared radius at the base of the tenon, which some refer to as a register, is there to provide additional strength to the tenon. The ferrule doesn't need a register, it's got 1" of 5/16" sleeve to keep it aligned.

By under-cutting the base of the tenon you are actually creating a weak point that will be inclined to flex due to side-loading the ferrule when using English. One too many flexes and it's broke.

Not looking for an argument, just sharing something that you may not be aware of.
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You are reading half correct :)

I do not do this with my ferrule tenons at all- only occasionally @ my A-joint. And when I say a bit, I mean barely a few thous. if at all. This 1/32 radius might be a bit much for the ferrule tenon, but I haven't used this tool for that yet.

I don't see where a couple of thou. cut in on the 5/8 or 3/4 A-joint tenon should matter that much- but I strongly agree with you of the importance of the flare at the ferrule end- even if that is only a few thou. :)

Best-
Chris
 
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i ordered one of the holders and 5 bits like these,TCGT.i found some made by Kennmetal that have .016" radius instead of the .032".i will say they are not cheap.i think it was $75 for 5 bits and $60 for the holder less the 35% discount MSC was offering last week.i wanted the smaller radius as i will mostly be using it for just facing and making tenons.

the bits face and cut very nice,they do cut ribbons with no tearing.i previously used one of the bigger carbide bits,which after sharpening work very well too.i sharpen mine in the shop every once in awhile and after you put a good edge on them they cut pretty well.i couldn't imagine using them without sharpening them first.

anyway my review is that they are very good,but for the money i would have stuck with the big carbide bits that i sharpen.they are very cheap(less then one TCGT bit actually)and they will last years.i would say in my estimation that the TCGT setup cuts maybe 10-20% better than the old school bits properly sharpened.not sure how long the 3 way blade will last,but my guess would a year or so.


this is just my opinion and i wanted to offer it up as it is fairly expensive to get setup for the TCGT cutters.they are nice but for the money i would pass if i had it to do again.if anyone needs part number from MSC let me know.i got the Tungaloy holder and the Kennametal bits.
 
masonh said:
i ordered one of the holders and 5 bits like these,TCGT.i found some made by Kennmetal that have .016" radius instead of the .032".i will say they are not cheap.i think it was $75 for 5 bits and $60 for the holder less the 35% discount MSC was offering last week.i wanted the smaller radius as i will mostly be using it for just facing and making tenons.

the bits face and cut very nice,they do cut ribbons with no tearing.i previously used one of the bigger carbide bits,which after sharpening work very well too.i sharpen mine in the shop every once in awhile and after you put a good edge on them they cut pretty well.i couldn't imagine using them without sharpening them first.

anyway my review is that they are very good,but for the money i would have stuck with the big carbide bits that i sharpen.they are very cheap(less then one TCGT bit actually)and they will last years.i would say in my estimation that the TCGT setup cuts maybe 10-20% better than the old school bits properly sharpened.not sure how long the 3 way blade will last,but my guess would a year or so.


this is just my opinion and i wanted to offer it up as it is fairly expensive to get setup for the TCGT cutters.they are nice but for the money i would pass if i had it to do again.if anyone needs part number from MSC let me know.i got the Tungaloy holder and the Kennametal bits.
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I already had the insert holders but I only paid 23.00 for a set of 5 holders that came with inserts, but not the ones being described. That comes to about 4.60 per holder. I bought the inserts for 87.00 and change, delivered, for 10 units. that is 8.70 each. I have these inserts on 3 of these holders for 3 different lathes

When I ordered mine, which have a .031 radius, I was told that they had them all the way down to a .005 radius. I don't believe these are made of carbide as they are to light. They are very sharp however and I am now using one on a lathe to trim my tips instead of a razor blade. It does a great job with no fear of knuckle busting nor cut ferrules.

Dick
 
looks like you are a better bargain shopper than i.

the stuff i bought can be had cheaper.i saw the Enco 5 holders with bits deal,but decided to pass on it.i am sure they work fine,but when it comes to tooling i am a sucker for brand name stuff.
 
http://www.usshoptools.com or
http://www.usshoptools.com/current_year/all_products/2007_08_pdf/PGS_355_376.pdf (page 19)

Made by: Korloy
Description: TCGT 32.50.5 AK H01
Part # KOY-1462
Size: .008 radius
Price: $6.19 Each (1/64 and 1/32 radius inserts are the same price)
They didn't have a minimum when I called. I just got (2) or each radius so I could see which I'd prefer.

As far as the holders go, I bought (5) on the bay, offshore type, for $36 shipped, and they came with standard carbide inserts, extra screws and allen wrenches.

I have no affiliation with either, but just wanted to share.

Regards,
Frank
 
rhncue said:
They are very sharp however and I am now using one on a lathe to trim my tips instead of a razor blade. It does a great job with no fear of knuckle busting nor cut ferrules.

Dick
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Dick

I have done the same for a while but left this approach and went back to the knife again. The reason was that the method most likely caused to much friction which caused the different layers to expand on the tip.
This was however with a tool which had a much smaller radius so I guess this could be my the reason for my outcome. The same tool is showed in this thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=114858 post #7

Kent
 
Leather is very abrasive. Looking under a microscope, you will see the gradual wear that occurs on the turning tool.
If you have a diamond wheel or diamond lap and a single side tool, IE does not flip over,you can resharpen them.
The real trick is that alot of the positive rake inserts are made from microgarin carbide.This is a good thing.
Neil
 
conetip said:
Leather is very abrasive. Looking under a microscope, you will see the gradual wear that occurs on the turning tool.
If you have a diamond wheel or diamond lap and a single side tool, IE does not flip over,you can resharpen them.
The real trick is that alot of the positive rake inserts are made from microgarin carbide.This is a good thing.
Neil
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Thank's Neil for the feedback.

My idea when I did this in February was that I could "use" the inserts and buy new ones when they was worn out by the tear and wear. The reason was that I have a lot of other investments to do (one being sorting out a decent lathe/cue machine for my self) so the 1 priority would not be to buy a diamond tool shaper :rolleyes:

So if Dick has good results on this, without disturbing the tip in any way I would for sure go for some of these when I have sorted my "lathe" decision .

Have any one tried to remove finnish with these inserts ?

Kent
 
Anybody know where I can get a tool holder which accepts this TCGT type of insert at a reasonable price?

I need one with a 3/8 shank.

Thanks,

Phillip
 
pip9ball said:
Anybody know where I can get a tool holder which accepts this TCGT type of insert at a reasonable price?

I need one with a 3/8 shank.

Thanks,

Phillip
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To use these inserts I believe you need to use a holder with a 1/2" shank. You could always grind the 1/2" shank down to the size that you need or find a similar insert in a smaller size that will fit a smaller shank.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
To use these inserts I believe you need to use a holder with a 1/2" shank. You could always grind the 1/2" shank down to the size that you need or find a similar insert in a smaller size that will fit a smaller shank.

Dick
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Hi Dick,

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep looking for a 3/8" shank, however atleast I know I can get 1/2" and have it milled down to 3/8" if necessary. Of course that will cost some additional money though.

-Phillip
 
pip9ball said:
Hi Dick,

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep looking for a 3/8" shank, however atleast I know I can get 1/2" and have it milled down to 3/8" if necessary. Of course that will cost some additional money though.

-Phillip
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I'm using one on a 7X12 H/F lathe with a quick change tool post. To use the tooling I had to use the 1/2" shank holders but I milled the back half of the holder down so that the tool would be low enough to use. Works fine. I believe H/F carries 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" shank holders. I know the quarter inch holders will not work with these inserts. I don't know if the 3/8" will work or not.

Dick
 
Yes 3/8 shank bits are available

I use them on my Hightower Deluxe. Either mill out Chris' deluxe holder to lower the cutting edge or better: mill the indexable tool holders bottom surfaces until the standard 1/4 inch shank size is achieved to fit the lathe tool holder Chris supplies.
The part numbers and prices I paid recently are as follows:

404-1040 3/8" Indexable set (5 tool holders. Chinese) $18.00

6-TCG-2112 TCGT 21.51-AK HO1 inserts @ $5.93 each

I know some tried to order from my supplier and got no reply. I asked why and was told when you leave a message, indicate it is for Bruce at the tool counter. And if you leave a number he can call you back.
Phone them at: 440-975-9684

To repeat an earlier post: Inserts for the !/2" holders are:

6-TCG-3212 TCGT 32.51 HO1 these are small radius @ $6.25 each

6-TCG-3222 TCGT 32.52-AK HO1 @ $5.53 each

They sell the bits any quantity at the prices I mentioned. I think this dealer is cheaper than any other that AZers tried.

Also they sell the Aloris clone tool holders cheap! The Turning and Facing holder for the 6-12 inch lathes run only $13.50 each. The part number is:
202-9401, Other holders also available and inexpensive.
I hope this helps you guys out some . . . Lou Olson.
Happy New year to all
 
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