Carbide vs HSS

Cuedog

Cuedog

CUE BALL INCOMING!!!
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Is the use of carbide tipped tool bits vs HSS bits a preference to most, or do you use them both for different applications regularly. (As it pertains to pool cues only.)

Secondly, where is the best place to purchase the carbide tipped bits to save money without sacrificing quality?

Thanks guys.

Gene
 
There was a thread not terribly long ago regarding this. If I remember correctly, many felt that high speed steel could be much sharper and give a much cleaner cut of some materials, but carbide would stay relatively sharp for a long time.

Some felt a good approach was to use carbide for beginning passes as the workhorse so to speak, and switch to HSS for lighter finish cuts to get the best of both advantages.

Kelly
 
Forgot to search

Thanks for the info Kelly. That's just how I go about it most of the time, for the same reasons. Although that was the first question, my second question was of greater importance to a small degree because I am very close to being out of the carbide and need to make an order.

Thanks again.

Gene
 
I really don't see any use for HSS except for doing tips.
For a rough cut, I used round-edged cabide tip.
For facinc, I use the sharpest pointed carbide insert.
 
I just sharpen my carbide bits by hand on the toolpost grinder with a fine diamond wheel. They cut very clean.
 
Chris Byrne said:
I just sharpen my carbide bits by hand on the toolpost grinder with a fine diamond wheel. They cut very clean.
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I hope you're wearing a mask. :eek: :)
 
Been there, done that. Carbide is harder to sharpen, but will stay sharper MUCH longer. I like the way carbide cuts more than HSS. Smoother, and will cut everything. When I was using HSS, I found myself regretting it more than once.
 
both have their places

Carbide comes in a shape and you pretty much have to live with it, I do touch it up but I don't reshape it. HSS steel lets you cut whatever rake and relief angles suit you for a material and the width of the cutting area is readily shaped to match the feed you want. I also don't think there is anything better than a high rake HSS tool for the final cut on stainless.

Carbide is nice for some things and it is hard to beat the convenience of carbide inserts but I would never be without HSS steel too.

Not much help for your immediate problem but equipment auctions are the best place to snatch up dozens of inserts in a lot for almost nothing sometimes. Some of the E-Bay sellers let them go cheaply after picking them up at auctions too. If you have to pay retail all you can do is check monthly specials and hope.

Hu
 
I should have added to my post... I did have to purchase a carbide wheel for the grinder. I use that to sharpen them. Also, every new carbide cutter I buy, I have to spend some time grinding the tip to a sharp point. They do not come that way. It takes some time, but it is worth it.

JWP
 
ShootingArts said:
Carbide comes in a shape and you pretty much have to live with it, I do touch it up but I don't reshape it. HSS steel lets you cut whatever rake and relief angles suit you for a material and the width of the cutting area is readily shaped to match the feed you want. I also don't think there is anything better than a high rake HSS tool for the final cut on stainless.

Carbide is nice for some things and it is hard to beat the convenience of carbide inserts but I would never be without HSS steel too.

Not much help for your immediate problem but equipment auctions are the best place to snatch up dozens of inserts in a lot for almost nothing sometimes. Some of the E-Bay sellers let them go cheaply after picking them up at auctions too. If you have to pay retail all you can do is check monthly specials and hope.

Hu
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Most people who try to use carbide unsuccessfully is because they try using the carbide tooling as it comes from the manufacturer. Metal is hard to cut and in doing so a lot of pressure is put on the cutting edges. All the tooling you buy is made for cutting different types of metals. What is needed is tooling designed for cutting wood, not metal. Since wood is so much easier to cut than metal the blunt angles are not needed to keep from chipping. I have a grinder for sharpening carbide so what I do is grind much sharper angles on my tooling. instead of 7 degrees I put on about 35 degrees. I also bevel the bottoms of my tooling so that when mounted in my tool holders it comes in more like a knife. When in use it justs peels maple like a pencil sharpener. People say you can't get carbide sharp but I don't think anyone would want me to put one of these to their throat.

Dick
 
I'm usually dealing with inserts

I'm usually dealing with carbide inserts. Sounds like I would then need to grind the hole to hold the carbide insert on too and of course it is nearly impossible to grind as you describe for each of three or four cutting points. Once I have a HSS tool where I want it I touch it up with a ground white arkansas stone before each use. These are very smooth and give a razor edge as I have discovered a time or two when I was a little too casual around one.

No doubt carbide can work, especially the all carbide tool. I just can't justify the expense when HSS works as well and is not nearly as likely to break as carbide if it gets dropped or bumped. I do use inserts for some work and they are nice. There are a lot of ways to skin the cat and none that get us to the finished product are wrong.

Hu


rhncue said:
Most people who try to use carbide unsuccessfully is because they try using the carbide tooling as it comes from the manufacturer. Metal is hard to cut and in doing so a lot of pressure is put on the cutting edges. All the tooling you buy is made for cutting different types of metals. What is needed is tooling designed for cutting wood, not metal. Since wood is so much easier to cut than metal the blunt angles are not needed to keep from chipping. I have a grinder for sharpening carbide so what I do is grind much sharper angles on my tooling. instead of 7 degrees I put on about 35 degrees. I also bevel the bottoms of my tooling so that when mounted in my tool holders it comes in more like a knife. When in use it justs peels maple like a pencil sharpener. People say you can't get carbide sharp but I don't think anyone would want me to put one of these to their throat.

Dick
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> I have come to the conclusion that all 3 types,the HSS,the cemented carbide and the indexable inserts all have their uses. The only drawback to the indexable carbides is the cost and availability. The toolholders themselves are 25-30 bucks each,and often come with no inserts,or come in 5 tool sets that are 75-80 bucks. The inserts can be as much as 7-8 bucks each,and usually only come in 10-packs. They are also subject to not be available locally to you,unless you are good friends with a good machinist. The cemented carbide,where a carbide chip is permanently bonded to an aluminum or steel body,are usually only 3-4 bucks each,and with a carbide grinding wheel,can be resharpened indefinitely,as well as shaped/sharpened to suit your needs better. These are also much easier to find. Tommy D.
 
I have some HSS around, but I prefer carbide for most things as it stays so sharp for so long. It is more expensive, and you usually do need to grind it to the proper angle for the purpose, but not having to re-sharpen every few uses is well worth it to me. The other way the extra expense of the carbide pays for itself is in how long the tool lasts. As the previous post mentioned, carbide can be re-sharpened or re-shaped until its all gone, and HSS can not. If you aren't comfortable getting the angle right to start with or sharpening the carbide yourself, there are tool sharpeners in every community that will do it for next to nothing.

P.S. HSS stands for Hardened Stainless Steel, not High Speed Steel.
 
desert1pocket said:
P.S. HSS stands for Hardened Stainless Steel, not High Speed Steel.
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Sorry, but I believe that generally speaking "HSS" when used in the context of cutting tools refers to High Speed Steel. One common example is M-2 :

AISI M-2

All-purpose grade with notable toughness. Good wear resistance and hot hardness qualities.

Typical Chemistry
• Carbon 0.85%
• Manganese 0.30%
• Silicon 0.30%
• Chromium 4.15%
• Vanadium 1.95%
• Tungsten 6.40%
• Molybdenum 5.00%
• Sulfur 0.03% max

Typical Hardness
• Rc 62-65

Stainless steel contains 10% or more Chromium by definition, so this common High Speed Steel (M-2) is not a stainless steel. See www.steel.org for details, they're the ones that make the grade, so to speak.

Dave
 
I've always known it to be 'high speed steel' aswell...maybe I've been calling it the wrong thing for 25 years....
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I assume D1P is talking about in his post

I assume D1P is referring to what he means by "HSS" in his post, obviously in the machine world it commonly refers to high speed steel.

One thing not mentioned yet in this thread is that HSS takes shock far better than carbide if you get chatter or just run into stainless or other hard material faster than you meant to.

When all is said and done I am very glad we have all of the choices that we do. I keep drill rod and other blanks on hand and while it will cut with high speed steel, carbide is nicer to use to make tooling.

Hu
 
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