Catch 22 Paypal / Ebay style

classiccues

classiccues

I need 15 Morgans.. Can you help me?
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Now this is why I think at some point this company is going to get strung up like a junkie on free crack day...

Paypal buyer protection.... read especially 13.8 / 13.9
http://http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/UserAgreement/ua/USUA-outside#pbp-policy

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/securitycenter/sell/GuaranteedPaymentsMLP-outside

Meaning they can never be charged back, or questioned. It's really a shocking thing to read since it would mean they really don't have buyer protection and you are getting boned on any dispute. The first one to file a police report wins.

JV
 
I guess the best thing you can do as the seller is once paid by paypal transfer the funds out of paypal immediately?

If they try and scam you and paypal favors them then paypal can't take money out of your bank account right? They can only touch the paypal account correct.
 
Nine Ball said:
I guess the best thing you can do as the seller is once paid by paypal transfer the funds out of paypal immediately?

If they try and scam you and paypal favors them then paypal can't take money out of your bank account right? They can only touch the paypal account correct.
Click to expand...

Here is the problem Josh, lets say this is what you do. You get money, you eject it out of your account so they cannot do anything.. but they can do something. They will go through the motions of a collection agency then try and get a lien and go after your credit. Once they end the dispute, and your stuck, that is there next recourse.

JV
 
I know that all of the scams being reported on here dealing through paypal I surely will not be using paypal from this point on unless I sell something very small. Like $10 or $15..
 
Nine Ball said:
I know that all of the scams being reported on here dealing through paypal I surely will not be using paypal from this point on unless I sell something very small. Like $10 or $15..
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Read the problems...

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

The bottom line is there is no real protection, and it is scary that someone can say you shipped them a box of rocks and even though you didn't, once they fax that police report over, you lose.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Here is the problem Josh, lets say this is what you do. You get money, you eject it out of your account so they cannot do anything.. but they can do something. They will go through the motions of a collection agency then try and get a lien and go after your credit. Once they end the dispute, and your stuck, that is there next recourse.

JV
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Yeah, You know eBay got sued a year or two ago by a class action and had to pay out a large sum to the state of California I believe it was..

They were stealing.. Rounding up pennies on the dollar.. With so many people on eBay, Stealing a few pennies from everyone will surely add up and fast..

Shortly after that is when they raised their prices for selling..
 
classiccues said:
Read the problems...

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

The bottom line is there is no real protection, and it is scary that someone can say you shipped them a box of rocks and even though you didn't, once they fax that police report over, you lose.

JV
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All I can say is next time someone gets mad I will not accept paypal I'll link them to this thread.. :eek:

I never liked using paypal anyway..

Personally, I'm the type that would take it to court even if it would cost me more then just getting ripped off..
 
Nine Ball said:
I guess the best thing you can do as the seller is once paid by paypal transfer the funds out of paypal immediately?

If they try and scam you and paypal favors them then paypal can't take money out of your bank account right? They can only touch the paypal account correct.
Click to expand...

Not quite right. By linking your bank account to PayPal, you are authorizing them to not only deposit monies in, but withdraw monies out...as in the case of a dispute. Can wreak real havoc on one's checking account, if one lives from payday to payday...as most of the real world does.

This is precisely why I took advantage of when my bank began offering really free checking accounts. On the suggestion of my bank, I opened up what is basically a 'dummy' account...no checks, no debit cards attached...that is PayPal dedicated. The minute the funds hit my PayPal account, I immediately do a transfer to my 'dummy' account. As soon as those funds clear into my 'dummy' account, I transfer them to my 'real-world' bank account...which is not registered, or attached to PayPal in any way. Online Banking can be a wonderful thing! :)

This way, should a dispute arise, especially a bogus one, there are no funds in the 'dummy' account for PayPal to withdraw. Should a bogus dispute arise, I will deal with the collection agency over PayPal. By Federal Fair Credit & Reporting Laws, you have a right to dispute, in writing, any collection action. With the appropriate receipts showing shipping, delivery confirmation, bill of sale, and any pre-shipping pics...the collection agency should discontinue it's action, or at the very least, take the matter to court...as any sitting judge will award judgement to the party with the paper trail...as in court, a USPS or other carrier's proof of delivery IS definitive proof the item(s) was received.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
Not quite right. By linking your bank account to PayPal, you are authorizing them to not only deposit monies in, but withdraw monies out...as in the case of a dispute. Can wreak real havoc on one's checking account, if one lives from payday to payday...as most of the real world does.

This is precisely why I took advantage of when my bank began offering really free checking accounts. On the suggestion of my bank, I opened up what is basically a 'dummy' account...no checks, no debit cards attached...that is PayPal dedicated. The minute the funds hit my PayPal account, I immediately do a transfer to my 'dummy' account. As soon as those funds clear into my 'dummy' account, I transfer them to my 'real-world' bank account...which is not registered, or attached to PayPal in any way. Online Banking can be a wonderful thing! :)

This way, should a dispute arise, especially a bogus one, there are no funds in the 'dummy' account for PayPal to withdraw. Should a bogus dispute arise, I will deal with the collection agency over PayPal. By Federal Fair Credit & Reporting Laws, you have a right to dispute, in writing, any collection action. With the appropriate receipts showing shipping, delivery confirmation, bill of sale, and any pre-shipping pics...the collection agency should discontinue it's action, or at the very least, take the matter to court...as any sitting judge will award judgement to the party with the paper trail...as in court, a USPS or other carrier's proof of delivery IS definitive proof the item(s) was received.

Lisa
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I do the same thing. If there is ever any issue I'd prefer to get an outside agency involved rather than try to fight it out with PayPal myself.
 
classiccues said:
The bottom line is there is no real protection, and it is scary that someone can say you shipped them a box of rocks and even though you didn't, once they fax that police report over, you lose.

JV
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Just the opposite can happen too. What if you pay a large sum for a cue and they send you a box of rocks or a pos cue, and then say you are trying to scam them as they sent you the real cue.
 
paypal can not go into your bank account and withdraw funds. I always withdraw from paypal immediatly and never ship until my bank has the $$$

I went through this with paypal over a scam on me. Protect yourself ladies and gentlemen. If the buyer doesnt like it he/she prob isn't honest anyway
 
dave sutton said:
paypal can not go into your bank account and withdraw funds. I always withdraw from paypal immediatly and never ship until my bank has the $$$

I went through this with paypal over a scam on me. Protect yourself ladies and gentlemen. If the buyer doesnt like it he/she prob isn't honest anyway
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I didn't think paypal could go into your bank account after you transfered funds from paypal.. Ridethewind has said different.. Honestly, I really have no idea if they can or can't but it doesn't seem like they would be able to.

I sure would like to know for sure though.
 
Jeff said:
Just the opposite can happen too. What if you pay a large sum for a cue and they send you a box of rocks or a pos cue, and then say you are trying to scam them as they sent you the real cue.
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Unfortunately Jeff, it will mean more diligence pre-shipping. Pictorial or video footage of the cue, newspaper with current date shipped, if you have the ability to pre-print mailing labels, document with cue as well. Also show the cue in it's packing materials....like bubblewrap, even if you cannot actually see it...and show the box as well. I cannot begin to tell you how many claims FedEx has paid with this information provided.

It will take more time and effort, and I suspect that at some point, this will need to be included into the shipping cost...handling charges. When they say that fraud raises the cost of doing business, they're not kidding.

Lisa
 
Nine Ball said:
I didn't think paypal could go into your bank account after you transfered funds from paypal.. Ridethewind has said different.. Honestly, I really have no idea if they can or can't but it doesn't seem like they would be able to.

I sure would like to know for sure though.
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By signing the PayPal agreement allowing them access to your account to make a deposit, they equally are allowed access to that account for the same amount of funds, or less, that was originally transferred in. Don't believe me?...go ask your bank. This is what my bank has told me, which is why it suggested I open a 'dummy' account. It's basically a charge back.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
By signing the PayPal agreement allowing them access to your account to make a deposit, they equally are allowed access to that account for the same amount of funds, or less, that was originally transferred in. Don't believe me?...go ask your bank. This is what my bank has told me, which is why it suggested I open a 'dummy' account. It's basically a charge back.

Lisa
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my bank told me in no point in time can paypal withdraw funds without my say. I had a 2000$+ dispute with paypal and they couldn't touch it. If they do you go to you bank and fill out a regulstion e form for unauthorized funds and your money will be back 7-10 buisness days.

I worked customer Serv for commerce bank and another local bank for years.
 
Well it's a back and forth now... Will someone find out for sure.. Maybe I'll call paypal and ask them if they can take funds from a bank account that has not authorized by the owner of the account and see what they say.
 
Update

I sent Paypal a fax last week outlining all the "lies" and smoke screens that the guy has done on my transactions. Well any ways they had a "final" review and found still in his favor due to the police report. I sent this fax afterwards and they asked me to stop sending faxes. Well that is not happening.

I found him back on Ebay selling again. But guess this, his auctions say no paypal, but they all violate ebay's TOS. A bunch have instructions to contact him and buy them off ebay. The other violation is some have text saying he is going to pull the auctions due to lack of bidding so don't wait to bid because he might pull them. What an (_*_).

Anyways.. I just sent them another fax showing them the way this guy blatantly disregards the rules pointing all this out. I said in the fax to open up your eyes and stop and look at the totality of the situation. Not that any of this will help, but I am going to be a mother forking pain in the (_*_) to someone.

JV
 
classiccues said:
I sent Paypal a fax last week outlining all the "lies" and smoke screens that the guy has done on my transactions. Well any ways they had a "final" review and found still in his favor due to the police report. I sent this fax afterwards and they asked me to stop sending faxes. Well that is not happening.

I found him back on Ebay selling again. But guess this, his auctions say no paypal, but they all violate ebay's TOS. A bunch have instructions to contact him and buy them off ebay. The other violation is some have text saying he is going to pull the auctions due to lack of bidding so don't wait to bid because he might pull them. What an (_*_).

Anyways.. I just sent them another fax showing them the way this guy blatantly disregards the rules pointing all this out. I said in the fax to open up your eyes and stop and look at the totality of the situation. Not that any of this will help, but I am going to be a mother forking pain in the (_*_) to someone.

JV
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There's no way you can just take the company "paypal" to court? Much like all the people did with eBay.. This may sound stupid but just a question.
 
Nine Ball said:
There's no way you can just take the company "paypal" to court? Much like all the people did with eBay.. This may sound stupid but just a question.
Click to expand...

Well when you sign up look at the legalese that is on the TOS. You aren't supposed to be able to sue them outside of California, and you pay their legal fees.

JV
 
a company as big as paypal or ebay would burry you. That's why thy get alot of ppl then go. It all cost you more than what its worth. Do not call paypal. Call your bank
 
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