Center Ball Banking

Worminator

Worminator

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I have heard several top players talk about center ball banking, and how using center ball will help you be come a better bank player. I play quite a bit of bank pool and rarely see the top players I watch play center ball on the majority of their shots.

I really don't see how you could play center ball on the majoriy of your banks on the Diamond tables at the DCC and expect to have greater success.

Thoughts...
 
Worminator said:
I have heard several top players talk about center ball banking, and how using center ball will help you be come a better bank player. I play quite a bit of bank pool and rarely see the top players I watch play center ball on the majority of their shots.

I really don't see how you could play center ball on the majoriy of your banks on the Diamond tables at the DCC and expect to have greater success.

Thoughts...
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I don't use center, and I'm not sure how it would help you. Maybe they are equating it to breaking it down to the basics. In other words, in practice sessions using center to get a better feel on the bank itself. Then again, I am not a banker of your stature either!
 
Worminator said:
I have heard several top players talk about center ball banking, and how using center ball will help you be come a better bank player. I play quite a bit of bank pool and rarely see the top players I watch play center ball on the majority of their shots.

I really don't see how you could play center ball on the majoriy of your banks on the Diamond tables at the DCC and expect to have greater success.

Thoughts...
Click to expand...


A good banker I am not but a great banker told me that you can shorten or lengthen banks with your stroke... I would take his word for it hes one The derby city banks at least once.. =)
 
Robertduke said:
A good banker I am not but a great banker told me that you can shorten or lengthen banks with your stroke... I would take his word for it hes one The derby city banks at least once.. =)
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I would agree with Larry (or maybe Jason) on that statement...;)
 
i suppose either way is fine, spinning balls in or centre ball. but i think you have to choose one method and stick to it to achieve any egree of conistency. no good trying to bank center ball for one shot and trying to spin in the next. but to be fair i am a useless banker this is just my common sense opinion.
 
I'm not a banks player, but I bank OK in other games, and I think it's important in other games to be able to bank with any kind of spin.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I'm not a banks player, but I bank OK in other games, and I think it's important in other games to be able to bank with any kind of spin.

pj
chgo
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Yeah but playing staight bank pool you should lean on your stroke more then english.. Dont get me wrong sometimes you have to use english but a center ball hit is more effective..
 
Consistancy and predictability is the key

worriedbeef said:
i suppose either way is fine, spinning balls in or centre ball. but i think you have to choose one method and stick to it to achieve any egree of conistency. no good trying to bank center ball for one shot and trying to spin in the next. but to be fair i am a useless banker this is just my common sense opinion.
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I agree completely. Recently I have been able to compare the techniques of 2 of the finest bankers ever. I don't know how many of you have seen it but Bugs Rucker put out a bank instructional years ago and he shoots MOST of his banks loaded up with english. AMAZING SHOTS!!!
I also recently spent some time with legendary banker Tony "Fargo" Ferguson (sp) showing me the way he banks balls. I wish I could have had a recorder to catch it all! He really bumps good and showed me so many shots I couldn't think straight. Anyway he uses very little english, cutting the ball into the rail at just the right spot, but splits the pocket and usually pulls his shape, illustrating another extremely effective way of hitting the balls. Again the key being consistent delivery of the shot

From what I've been able to pick most of the best bankers use minimal english. I would love to know how Eddy Taylor liked to hit them. Anyone know? Is he on Video or Film Anywhere?

Freddy?

BTW if anyone wanted a copy of the BUGS bank video let me know. It's out of print I know but maybe we could send the money to his family. I'm sure Freddy could help me with an address.
 
Bugs video

ugotactionTX said:
BTW if anyone wanted a copy of the BUGS bank video let me know. It's out of print I know but maybe we could send the money to his family. I'm sure Freddy could help me with an address.
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I would be interested if there was a way to do it correctly. I couldn't send a private messages due to the mailbox quota.
 
I'm no Beard or Bugs, but I kinda feel like learning the ropes with center ball would be the best, just to get a solid feel for banking and angles. Once you have those down I think it's good to learn to use english to shoot some more difficult, uncommon banks, and to get position better. Just my two cents.

ugotactionTX said:
BTW if anyone wanted a copy of the BUGS bank video let me know. It's out of print I know but maybe we could send the money to his family. I'm sure Freddy could help me with an address.
Click to expand...

I'm super interested in this. But seeing as how it is out of print, I'd really want to get an okay from Fred and/or Bugs' family.
 
Tell a one-pocket player that he should only bank with center ball and he'll laugh at you. You can change your angles 3 different ways so you should learn to use all 3 (unless of course you only play straight pool, then I wouldn't bother learning much about banking).
 
Begin with center ball and when you know how to bank with center ball using medium speed then you vary the speed to get a different angle and when you know how to make balls by changing the speed then you move on to experiment with english to change the angle.
 
I've also heard from many of the older players to learn to bank without english too. But I think it's probably a matter of "learn to do without first, and THEN.............you can learn how much more variation can be added with."
I've also met many good players (generally older too) that "a quarter tip of English gets just as much action as 1 1/2 tips of English." And I've never really believed that either. I think it goes back to the argument that even the best players in the world don't always have the ability to teach, or at the best..............put their abilities into words. Many of the guys that will preach that you only need a quarter tip at the most use a little backhand that ends up getting much more than a quarter tip of action.
dave
 
Center ball can make 'em all

ugotactionTX said:
I agree completely. Recently I have been able to compare the techniques of 2 of the finest bankers ever. I don't know how many of you have seen it but Bugs Rucker put out a bank instructional years ago and he shoots MOST of his banks loaded up with english. AMAZING SHOTS!!!
I also recently spent some time with legendary banker Tony "Fargo" Ferguson (sp) showing me the way he banks balls. I wish I could have had a recorder to catch it all! He really bumps good and showed me so many shots I couldn't think straight. Anyway he uses very little english, cutting the ball into the rail at just the right spot, but splits the pocket and usually pulls his shape, illustrating another extremely effective way of hitting the balls. Again the key being consistent delivery of the shot

From what I've been able to pick most of the best bankers use minimal english. I would love to know how Eddy Taylor liked to hit them. Anyone know? Is he on Video or Film Anywhere?

Freddy?

BTW if anyone wanted a copy of the BUGS bank video let me know. It's out of print I know but maybe we could send the money to his family. I'm sure Freddy could help me with an address.
Click to expand...

Eddie Taylor used mostly center axis, very little english, Wimpy banked great in 9ball, used center ball, Truman Hogue, very little english. Javenly Youngblood Washington, very little english. Tony Fargo, the same. Me, very little english. The ratio for the above bankers is about 85% center axis (which includes follow and draw) and about %15 side axis (english). Bugs ratio was a little higher but no more than 75%-25%. Cannonball Lefty Chapman was even higher, about 50%-50%. I speak from personal experience. I used to play every bank I shot with english until I watched Taylor, Youngblood and Lassiter play in the early 60s. This area is covered much more extensively in both of my bank pool books. If you want to learn the "right" way buy the darned books. If they were available when I was starting out I wouldnt have wasted my first 8 years of bank pool playing the game backwards.

the Beard

Using a level cue and center ball is pounded on relentlessly in my DVD, Bank Shots that dont go, but do.
 
???

When I was starting to bank what helped me the most was to practice in the following order.

Center ball (No English) and use the same speed on every shot and basically the only variable is your angles. Once you get comfortable with those shots move on to using english, the main thing is to have somebody that can help you that knows why they are putting certain types of english on what shots. Watch the better players in your area and you can learn alot, don't watch them make the balls watch them hit the balls. It seemed to make sense to me. Hope this helps...
 
You can't really eliminate the effects of spin. Every cut shot spins the OB unless you spin the CB to prevent it. Even straight on shots are shortened by rail friction, which acts like reverse spin, unless you add some running english. All these effects are changed by different balls, cloth, humidity, speed, etc. - this is the problem.

Actually, there are two problems. Problem One is the way OB spin, or the lack of it, changes bank angles. Problem Two is the way CB spin, or the lack of it, changes OB spin and aim. To take rail friction out of the equation you have to put squirt and throw (CB spin) into the equation. I think this is a bad trade, which leads me to believe that centerball banking, when possible, is usually best.

This doesn't change my opinion that you need to know how to bank with all kinds of spin, especially in games other than banks where position play can be more demanding.

Don't mind me - just thinking out loud.

pj
chgo
 
Not to dis anyone in particular, but you fellas aren't listening to the guy who wrote the book. Freddy explains all the methods of the masters in his two books, including the effects of Rotational Spin (not throw from English) and illustrates everything. He also gives the 'dead on' tracks that work for fairly wide areas and some throw shots with English. He emphasizes though that a ball only comes off a rail true if it hits the rail skidding and not spinning, otherwise it's either going long or short at all times. At least, that's the way I'm understanding it.

The book gives you a method to use to find the contact point on a rail. It takes into account speed, the effects of English, follow and draw, and all the factors that can make you make or miss, and puts it all into a system that really was secret for many decades. It really is the "Secrets of a Master Banker". Buy it, you'll like it ;) ...Tom
 
Richie Brown...

The best banks I have ever seen in person have all been made by a former pool room owner by the name of Richie Brown. I remember seeing him line up 14 balls lined up on the headstring and banking in every ball up and down the length of the table, cueball about 1 diamond off the short rail in to either corner pocket using center ball hits. He started from the right end of the line of balls and banked each object ball in to the back right corner with a blocking ball two balls off of the long rail. Then he switched over to do the same thing on the left side corner. All shot with center ball. Cleanest bank shooting I have ever seen in person.
 
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