Center to where...Pro what..

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LAMas said:
Will you give it more time at the table or is it after watching it (DVD) not self evident?
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I've been at work so other than Sunday I have just been watching the video over and over. The reason is because I wanted to get a grasp of the aiming to A, B and C. After the second time I had no problems understanding that part of the aiming.

Like the video said it could take a week, or it could take a month. I am amazed that some may give up on it so quickly considering the amount of time invested in learning the game.
 
Mikjary said:
Less than a week and people are throwing in the towel?:confused:
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I'm throwing in the towel on trying to find value in the dvd. I don't think the instructions were conveyed very well. I haven't given up on learning a Pivot system from an instructor during a private lesson.
 
hang on to your dvd's! when i get mine i think i will be able to help since i have been using cte for a couple years now and think i should pick this info up quick, hopefully lol
 
Well, the ABC was explained to me over chat and I just went to the table and it's perfectly clear to me. Of course I have been using CTE for a while so perhaps this is why it's clear as day for me.

DISCLAIMER - I have not yet SEEN the video so my answers COULD change later when I do have it.

When I have the video I will see if my initial thoughts match up to the actual content.

For now, this is definitely EASIER than the way I have been using CTE - although that way is pretty easy in itself for me now.

If anyone wants to video chat on SKYPE I will be glad to show you what I know so far and discuss it. I have an overhead camera set up so that should make it a little easier.

My skype name is jbideas. I only want to do Skype right now and maybe MSN depending on which one we can get a better connection with. I cannot PROMISE that we will have a good video experience because after all we are a world apart.

I am here at the shop for the next 8 hours. You can call me and I can TALK to you while the video is on. It's loud here so it's best to mute the microphone on the video call and just talk on the phone. When you contact me on Skype I will give you a USA number that you can use to call me which will forward to my cell phone.

This offer is ONLY open to those who have purchased the video and whom are having trouble. And it's helpful to me if you are able to be watching the video when you call me. I believe that I might be able to help you. If not then not but we can try.
 
Luxury said:
I'm with you. I feel like I completely blew a lot of money on this and I'm pretty bummed about it. I really wanted to get it but I honestly don't think Stan can teach the system on a video. I watched it several times and tried it so many times and so many shots are missed. (I can make long straight shots all day. Stroke is solid.)I feel like I would have to get a lesson. It seems like a lot of people that really praise the video have already had a lesson so I can understand that.

I actually got way more out of Cleary's 90/90 video on youtube. I get that other people are loving it but if there is a refund option I will be opting to go that route. :(
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If Stan does not offer a refund then I will. I am positive that I can sell or donate this video to someone who can benefit from it.

For what it's worth it took me quite a while to digest Freddy Bentevegna's banking methods and frankly I am still not there. I have taken the book to the table several times and sometimes I seem to "get it" and other times it's frustrating. I think that this is partially due to the way he presents the material and partially due to my own blockage for whatever reason.
 
mrsmith1976 said:
I see first hand how these threads get so long....
Ok..my point is simply this. If you think that you are hitting the ball in the center and maybe just maybe you are not, then I would suggest you correct that first..I guess that I am the only player on Earth that realized that the center of the ball wasn't where I thought it was, or that I wasn't sending the cueball down the line that I thought I was sending it, or that I was putting uninteded sidespin on the ball due to bad mechanics. Your suggestion are that everyone that buys the CTE DVD does not have those problems.

If I have offended anyone who purchased the DVD by suggesting that you check your fundamentals first, I apologize.

And for the 1,000th time John...LOVE THE CASE:grin:
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I think that your suggestion to focus on fundamentals is a good thing. Your suggestion that people who are interested in learning an aiming system have NOT focused on their fundamentals is not accurate.

Here is my take on this.

1. Bad Aiming plus Bad Mechanics = not consistent.
2. Good Aiming plus Bad Mechanics = more consistent.
3. Good Aiming plus Good Mechanics = very consistent.

It is my finding that a good aiming system can help a player tremendously regardless of their mechanics. And perhaps THIS is actually part of the reason why so many players are too excited when they learn one. All of the sudden they are slicing in balls with ease that gave them fits before.

And as Mike Page and others have theorized perhaps as a consequence of the USE of a systematic approach to aiming (as opposed to feel) causes players to have better mechanics even if they aren't consciously trying to have better mechanics.

I think that the two Aiming and Mechanics are not exclusive. They are symbiotic but AIMING is the more important one.

Because if you are aiming right, that is to say that your cue stick is on the ONLY possible line that can be used to make the shot then you can stroke the cue WRONG a hundred times and get lucky and actually hit the cue ball correctly and make the ball.

But if you are on the WRONG line then even if you strike the cue ball dead perfect 100 times in a row you will miss 100 times in a row.

Therefor I hope that you truly can see my point about the fact that Bad Aiming is not a problem which is due to bad mechanics. It is a problem which is due to faulty perception. Correcting the perception puts the player in the position to then work on their mechanics and really to begin the real process of understanding what good mechanics are.

I am glad you love the case! Thank you for the patience and sorry I dogged it a little on the delivery. Still though I expect you to speak your mind on these topics and I will do the same and if we disagree a little then it's ok. I only get really upset with people who are so close-minded that they become insulting when they are disagreed with.

Frankly I don't care if anyone "believes" in CTE or not. I know it's the nuts as far as aiming goes and I will be a cheerleader for that whenever it's the right thing to do, just as I stand up for whatever else I believe in.

It's not a magic pill and anyone who thinks that CTE is one is deluding themselves. Just like the people who buy a jump cue and then never practice with it thinking that the cue has some sort of auto-jump feature.

No matter what you do you have to master the technique or it's worse than if you never learned it at all in my opinion.
 
Cte is visual!

The hardest part of Cte is to throw away your protractor and compass. No contact point or ghost ball is going to pop up and say, "Right here, Bubba!" You are using Cte visuals to line up your eyes on the correct aiming line. Your body will follow. The pivot completes the equation.

Cte gives you real world, tangible points to pick out on the CB and OB visually and this shows your body where to line up. The pivot to center is the necessary step to arrive at the contact point. These tangible points are not known conciously to many people, pros and amateurs alike, but somehow players arrive at the correct aiming line. Many times they don't. Stan is saying that now that he has shown this information many players will realize how they can learn to line up and be more consistent without relying on feel.

When you look at a shot with feel, what are you doing? You're using your eyes to tell your body where to line up. Cte emphasizes your visuals as you sight the shot. Your eyes make minute adjustments to your alignment even though you are aiming at the "same" contact point. Your sense of feel is zeroed in by your visuals and your body naturally knows where to set up. The pivot is a small adjustment to complete the physical alignment which agrees with what the eyes are seeing. Don't be a friggin' robot. Be an artist with a cue. Let your visuals line you up on the right edge.

This visualization will strengthen your game even if you don't use Cte all the time. You will learn to line up better and this will help straighten out that pump handle, chicken wing spasm you call a "stroke". Give it a chance. Just takes a little time and some practice.

Best,
Mike
 
The DVD is presented to you from the presenters / instructors perspective. This does make it a little hard to understand. I really have a hard time with it actually. But thats just the way I am. I have trouble going back and forth from the viewers perspective and the instructors perspective where right and left is reversed then reversed back quickly. But once you are acclimated to those changes all is good. The information turned that light bulb on in my head that had not been lit for over 30 years of not playing. Now I can move forward without wondering what I'd forgotten over the years. Just one small step can make big difference. Every DVD I've seen that has to do with aiming has really presented the same information interpreted differently by the presenter. Stan presented it with one more dimension that brought it together for me.
 
Mowem down said:
Good ?.... Ive followed these aiming threads for a lomg time for the simple fact I believe knowledge is power in this game and i like the search for the knowledge... I was glad to see this DVD was comng out for that reason and the fact I was hoping it would end all the BS that goes with trying to talk about aiming on here, much like any given topic. When I watched it letdown would be putting it way under mildly... The info is to me just crazy to try to listen to. I have played with it and have figured a way to sight with the cte and do a parallel shift standing up to find a contact/aiming point that appears to work on shallow degree cuts. However neat of a trick I think ive came up with, its not due to the dvd as much as me wanting to make somthing out of all the time ive spent listening to all this cte stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thread...should be illuminating.

I too have spent alot of time trying to digest the finite details of CTE - without buying the DVD. I was hoping that everyone would have an epiphany, but that seems not to be the case.

That some use 90/90, says that there are variations to pivot aiming.

Rant:

We all know that the straignt in shot is CTC and the 30 degree angle cut is CTE and can be accomplished without pivoting, though some pivot anyway for these two shots.

With the bridge at you comfortable location from the CB, you can make both of these shots regardless of the distance between the CB and OB - close or far.

For small angle cuts, and starting with the straight in shot, by aiming from the center of the CB to a small distance/angle away from the center of the OB - one can make a slight angle cut (either side).

The same can be effected for the CTE 30 degree cut to accomplish a 25 degree or a 35 degree cut.

Starting at CTE, the parallel shift of the cue to the side from the center of the CB and pivot accomplishes the same end...the CB hits the contact point on the OB.

The rest of CTE should be made succinct by the DVD for all of the shot angles for those that can see angles....or not
 
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A simple tip I can give to people that are confused or having a problem sighting both of the CB edges at the same time is to use BOTH eyes. Do not move your eyes back and forth or move your head to look at each edge individually. Sight both edges and shift your focus mentally between your eyes (that means with your brain :eek:).

So, when I look at the CB center to the right OB edge I use my right eye and left eye for the left edge. Do the opposite for the other direction.

Think about it. Perfect Aim. As much as Geno has been a$$-chewed on this forum, he got it right. Get your eyes in the right place and life is good again.

See if the dvd makes more sense now.

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
A simple tip I can give to people that are confused or having a problem sighting both of the CB edges at the same time is to use BOTH eyes. Do not move your eyes back and forth or move your head to look at each edge individually. Sight both edges and shift your focus mentally between your eyes (that means with your brain :eek:).

So, when I look at the CB center to the right OB edge I use my right eye and left eye for the left edge. Do the opposite for the other direction.

Think about it. Perfect Aim. As much as Geno has been a$$-chewed on this forum, he got it right. Get your eyes in the right place and life is good again.

See if the dvd makes more sense now.

Best,

Mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

Now that the DVD is out and should explain all without the veil of secrecy imposed by Hal.

Let's discuss everything...until we all understand the finite details.

If I sight my right eye at the right edge of the OB, Is my right eye over the cue and visa versa?

Does this work whether I need to shift the cue from the center of the CB, pre-pivot to the right or to the left...depending on the "angle" of the cut?


Thanks. :wink:
 
A lot of the confusion is that people don't understand "the pivot". Not Dr. Dave, not Pat Johnson, GMT or most on these threads. It's not a hard mechanical thing. It's more like bringing a camera into focus. When you want to take a picture you swing the camera into position then you fine tune the focus. Using the egde of the object ball and the center of the cueball as initial starting points brings you in frame. THEN you use the ABC points in ProOne to zero in and THEN you pivot to position.

You don't HAVE TO pivot. If you can see the line based on step one and two then you can lay your cue down on that line. Pivoting just brings the shot into focus and actually FEELS better than laying down straight on the line.

And the other thing people are confusing is the SHOT LINE and the CTE Line - they are not the same thing.

The CTE line is the initial sighting line. Call it the TARGET LINE.

In other words if you were an archer and I told you to use the EDGE of the target as your initial sighting then that would put your BODY in the right line with the target and you would have a tangible thing to line up to every time. Then from there the bullseye is half a target in.

So you say to me why not line up to the CENTER of the ball or target? Well you can but the center is not as well defined as the edge. The edge of the ball stands in SHARP contrast to the table and is easy to find every time.

So it's easy to find the CTE Line for any given shot. When found you can't help but be in the right position to then get to the exact SHOT LINE.

The SHOT LINE is the ONLY Line which is POSSIBLE to make the ball. And this includes SLIGHT vectors to either side of that line.

So here is where the PIVOT comes into play.

Once on the CTE line the shift to the SHOT LINE where you will lay your bridge hand down is TINY - You put your HAND down on that line and swing the cue stick into it and then you are locked in on the SHOT LINE.

That's CTE. It's just another way to get to the Shot Line OTHER THAN using a Ghost Ball and laying down your cue on the SHOT LINE that GB gives you.

For many of us it's way stronger than GB because of the fact that no matter what by starting with the EDGE of the OB we are no more than a 1/2 ball at most away from the SHOT LINE. And by using CTE you come to see that the "pivot" is in fact very small and almost automatic with some practice.

To me Stan's ABC points on the OB are a way to focus into the shot line even more and sort of double check it all. Of course I am speaking second hand here based on a limited description from a chat. When I have the video I will be able to speak more concretely about it.
 
LAMas said:
Thanks for the thread...should be illuminating.

I too have spent alot of time trying to digest the finite details of CTE - without buying the DVD. I was hoping that everyone would have an epiphany, but that seems not to be the case.

That some use 90/90, says that there are variations to pivot aiming.

Rant:

We all know that the straignt in shot is CTC and the 30 degree angle cut is CTE and can be accomplished without pivoting, though some pivot anyway for these two shots.

With the bridge at you comfortable location from the CB, you can make both of these shots regardless of the distance between the CB and OB - close or far.

For small angle cuts, and starting with the straight in shot, by aiming from the center of the CB to a small distance/angle away from the center of the OB - one can make a slight angle cut (either side).

The same can be effected for the CTE 30 degree cut to accomplish a 25 degree or a 35 degree cut.

Starting at CTE, the parallel shift of the cue to the side from the center of the CB and pivot accomplishes the same end...the CB hits the contact point on the OB.

The rest of CTE should be made succinct by the DVD for all of the shot angles for those that can see angles....or not
Click to expand...

If you will post some shots using the CueTable then I will set them up and shoot them using my over head camera. I will go slow and try to insure that the motions are clear enough to see what it happening.

For me a 5 degree cut is the same as an 85 degree cut but maybe when you see me do it on video you will notice something that I don't see.
 
JB Cases said:
If you will post some shots using the CueTable then I will set them up and shoot them using my over head camera. I will go slow and try to insure that the motions are clear enough to see what it happening.

For me a 5 degree cut is the same as an 85 degree cut but maybe when you see me do it on video you will notice something that I don't see.
Click to expand...

Can you diagram the starting position of the cue at CTE, the pre-pivot shift to the side, pivot to center for a 5 degree and the same 85 degree cut?

We can then progress to explaining the shift for the OB being down table...if it's not the same shift.

So much can be absorbed in the bridge even in an overhead film. I can reverse engineer your diagrams accurately in computer aided drawings (CAD).

Thanks.
 
Mikjary said:
A simple tip I can give to people that are confused or having a problem sighting both of the CB edges at the same time is to use BOTH eyes. Do not move your eyes back and forth or move your head to look at each edge individually. Sight both edges and shift your focus mentally between your eyes (that means with your brain :eek:).

So, when I look at the CB center to the right OB edge I use my right eye and left eye for the left edge. Do the opposite for the other direction.

Think about it. Perfect Aim. As much as Geno has been a$$-chewed on this forum, he got it right. Get your eyes in the right place and life is good again.

See if the dvd makes more sense now.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Good post Mike
 
The pro one is very similar to the way I aim. His system your bridge hand is always in the same place for every shot with the same pivot. My system I first look at what kind of slide/deflection I want the cue ball to come off the ob then give my pivot to the left or right depending what it takes to make the ob. This makes a BIG difference. I believe the pro one limits your defection/skid angle/tangent line to one dimension. But I do like the way I makes u concentrate on the main factor on cb position. Concentrating on the tip of the cue.
 
JB Cases said:
A lot of the confusion is that people don't understand "the pivot". Not Dr. Dave, not Pat Johnson, GMT or most on these threads. It's not a hard mechanical thing. It's more like bringing a camera into focus. When you want to take a picture you swing the camera into position then you fine tune the focus. Using the egde of the object ball and the center of the cueball as initial starting points brings you in frame. THEN you use the ABC points in ProOne to zero in and THEN you pivot to position.

To me Stan's ABC points on the OB are a way to focus into the shot line even more and sort of double check it all. Of course I am speaking second hand here based on a limited description from a chat. When I have the video I will be able to speak more concretely about it.
Click to expand...

Nice analogy and description of ABC points.
 
sr 9ball said:
The pro one is very similar to the way I aim. His system your bridge hand is always in the same place for every shot with the same pivot. My system I first look at what kind of slide/deflection I want the cue ball to come off the ob then give my pivot to the left or right depending what it takes to make the ob. This makes a BIG difference. I believe the pro one limits your defection/skid angle/tangent line to one dimension. But I do like the way I makes u concentrate on the main factor on cb position. Concentrating on the tip of the cue.
Click to expand...

This seems to me to be a great method to start with. Like other methods, the rest is application of recognition and memory accumulated and mastered over time at the table.

Thanks.
 
For those of you who have watched the DVD. Stan,Stevie and Landon
tell you before each shot where the CB and OB are located by a number
referencing the grid . If you mark each of these shots on your table
you will find he supplied all diff ranges of thick and thin hits. After marking these locations you will be able to identify each shot with ease and know the
exact alignment required. I seriously doubt anyone has done this. The visuals will be CTE,ETC and A ,B or C. If you use the grid provided and use the DVD as a workbook you will get the most out of it. No one has had adequate time to work on this , Its takes time. More than a couple days.

On a side note I will help those who have purchased the DVD and are having trouble grasping it.
If they are willing to work on it
 
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