Centerball...haters gonna hate

[ENGLISH!]

I don't really know what that means but I have watched him play live several times and there is no shortage of side spin when he plays.

Good Sunday Morning, Fran.

Did you see my post to Mr. Cantrall earlier in the thread? CJ basically said that on certain shots Efren plays TOI. I think buckshot is saying basically the same thing.

As to Efren's 'no spin' comment that has been referred to many times on these forums, who really knows what he meant? Anyone with eyes that knows anything about english knows that he certainly does spin the ball.

You Have a Great Day.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I have observed that Efrin uses spin in a different way. A lot of times, he spins so the rotational speed equals the forward speed at impact. The object ball gets no throw due to friction. The object ball may slide a little but has no sidespin on the way to the pocket. I wonder if this was to what he was referring.

Edit....it seems to be a quality with Filipino players. Comes from dealing with
the humidity?

Buck,

I'd like to point out that a cue ball with no side spin picks up outside spin or 'roll' from the collision with the object ball & so does the cue ball.

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of outside spin can compensate for that & get the OB rolling with no outside 'roll'. But naturally the CB will have outside 'roll'

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of inside spin can compensate for the outside spin or 'roll' that it would normally pick up from the collision & then it, the CB, would roll true & natural.

Just some food for thought. The thing is that you can NOT have both at the same time, but... with significant speed of shot the effects can be minimized.

Hitting balls softly is an art.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[gregcantrall]

I have observed that Efrin uses spin in a different way. A lot of times, he spins so the rotational speed equals the forward speed at impact. The object ball gets no throw due to friction. The object ball may slide a little but has no sidespin on the way to the pocket. I wonder if this was to what he was referring.

Edit....it seems to be a quality with Filipino players. Comes from dealing with
the humidity?

The original quote "no spin" came from the thread titled, Don't Ya "Wish" Efren Spoke Good English?
So it is understandable how there could be different interpretations of what he could have meant by the two simple words.

CJ seemed to think he meant no spin coming off the rail, a quality of TOI.

Fran thinks he was either joking about himself (kind of like "I got lucky") or possibly referring to the American players as not being able to play spin as well as him.

Buckshot thinks he could mean no spin on the object ball.

All are plausible explanations. The correct answer requires you to think outside the box. Kind of like Colin's "Million Dollar Proposition Shot? - How to Do It!" The clues are Efren's nickname, "The Magician" and "he looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and replied". The correct answer is ............by "no spin" he means he is stopping the rotation of the earth as in stopping time.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Buck,

I'd like to point out that a cue ball with no side spin picks up outside spin or 'roll' from the collision with the object ball & so does the cue ball.

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of outside spin can compensate for that & get the OB rolling with no outside 'roll'. But naturally the CB will have outside 'roll'

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of inside spin can compensate for the outside spin or 'roll' that it would normally pick up from the collision & then it, the CB, would roll true & natural.

Just some food for thought. The thing is that you can NOT have both at the same time, but... with significant speed of shot the effects can be minimized.

Hitting balls softly is an art.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

Tell that to my wife

 

[ps611846]

Buck,

I'd like to point out that a cue ball with no side spin picks up outside spin or 'roll' from the collision with the object ball & so does the cue ball.

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of outside spin can compensate for that & get the OB rolling with no outside 'roll'. But naturally the CB will have outside 'roll'

A cue ball with the appropriate amount of inside spin can compensate for the outside spin or 'roll' that it would normally pick up from the collision & then it, the CB, would roll true & natural.

Just some food for thought. The thing is that you can NOT have both at the same time, but... with significant speed of shot the effects can be minimized.

Hitting balls softly is an art.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

Rick,

Hitting stun shots and hard shots is also an art. You have to learn how to play the three basic speeds. And that's why the table must have tight pockets (4 inch). There is no room for errors there. SPEED is the No 1 reason for missed shots.

 

[KRJ]

Was PJ banned for making a joke about someone kissing butt?

Seriously, Mike?

Yeah, that's kinda weird. I wonder what The Thaigers thoughts are on that topic. If you see him, let us all know

 

[KRJ]

Since you questioned me, yes, that pearl of wisdom is not lost on me. I was addressing the original poster's question, which was on pure centerball strike, as he addressed draw and follow as a completely different thought, later in his post. It could be awhile since you've referred to the original post. Suggest you read it again.

My point was simple. Low is better for stability. By the way, english is also needed for position, whether outside or inside; it depends on where you need to cueball to be. No english on a cut shot is bad, as the cueball drags the object ball a bit. Then you miss.

Well-known center ball strikers? None. But, in fairness, I'll mention a few that came close. Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras, and Buddy Hall. Even they went a bit below center, if you watch close enough.

All the best,
WW

No worries. I think the OP was mistaken in his original post about what center ball actually means, and I thought it was addressed what it means already, thus everyone was now aware it does in fact related to the entire vertical axis.

I don't know many that actually hit "center ball", I mean dead center of the cue ball, no left, no right, not draw, no top, very few times in a week of playing to be honest. I can't remember the last time for me to be honest

 

[SmoothStroke]

WildWing made an excellent post, short and sweet with quality info.

I don't post much so here is my long winded crap.

It is ashame a quality poster like Patrick Johnson or any poster is banned over a discussion. The passion for this game is like no other, as no other game is like pool. If everyone here gathered in a pool room for a week, at the end of the week everyone might learn something from each other and call each other friend.


The game and your opponent will not allow you to play one way. You can favor a style but you must be able to do it all, and do it with confidence. If you are gun shy and afraid to pull the trigger you will sit in the chair while your opponent uses the cue ball.

The cue ball is like a dart board. There is a bull's eye, double and triple zones, and everything in between.
Strike on any mark needed for the shot and what the cue ball and game are asking you to do. Let the cue ball work, do its job; the strike mark does not matter, the stroke and speeds 1, 2, 3 matters. Playing in proper speed is a high priority.

I like to use BHE. It doesn't mean I can't hit extreme outside at 4:30 with power or finesse.

I like to play inside the cue ball, that doesn’t mean center ball. If needed I can generate much spin, little spin, and no spin playing inside and can flatten the cue ball perfectly with stroke technique.

I play 99% lower cue ball, rarely higher than the horizontal cross hair, yes I can achieve a rolling cue ball.

I have no problem with extreme spin or power, my finesse game is just fine

I use upstrokes and down strokes, I clear my cue when many experts say its taboo, meanwhile every world champ does it, Mosconi did it a lot, poor Willie never read the book.

Playing the vertical crease and using the ladder system is not that difficult, none of it is difficult.

Many discussions on here are way over the top, too complicated. If I were just beginning to play and read these forums I would kill myself, or stab myself in the eye with a very large sword.

If you look at the greatest players in history, you can count on 1 finger how many of them read the book.
Go watch Willie clear the cue and use BHE, Efren clear the cue using draw, Sigel clearing the cue jumping up on every shot, Earl striking very low with spin and clearing the cue so high it could become an antenna. Watch how many champs complete to an extended dust stroke.

Look at many of today's second and third tier players trying to play by the book. They look like a bunch of stiff robots; the natural looks like it was squeezed out of them through their butt, their strokes look constipated. Much of today's literature and teachings have them in a catatonic state, 99% of them will always be lower tier players, unless they play over their head and everyone else falls asleep, few if any will achieve greatness, they are at a dead end, they need to borrow the oil can from the Tin Man.

Center ball and vertical crease are overrated, but you must hit them accurately when needed, it all matters.
All of it is so simple to understand you just need a few things, it's not Rocket Science.

A Straight Stroke
Mastery of Stroke technique and speed
Imagination
Learn to play 3 cushion and learn the cue ball, take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

Sincerely:SS

 

[buckshotshoey]

The original quote "no spin" came from the thread titled, Don't Ya "Wish" Efren Spoke Good English?
So it is understandable how there could be different interpretations of what he could have meant by the two simple words.

CJ seemed to think he meant no spin coming off the rail, a quality of TOI.

Fran thinks he was either joking about himself (kind of like "I got lucky") or possibly referring to the American players as not being able to play spin as well as him.

Buckshot thinks he could mean no spin on the object ball.

All are plausible explanations. The correct answer requires you to think outside the box. Kind of like Colin's "Million Dollar Proposition Shot? - How to Do It!" The clues are Efren's nickname, "The Magician" and "he looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and replied". The correct answer is ............by "no spin" he means he is stopping the rotation of the earth as in stopping time.

Yes. That's it. Let me clarify. Hit the cue ball with spin and speed so to not cause a
gearing effect. The object ball just starts rolling straight. Very tough thing to do consistently.

Playing on a table with worn out balls, with about as much shine to them as your cube of chalk is a good place to use this type of spin. Eliminate the gearing effect and the "spin induced throw" disappears. Some outside english is required and a good shot to use when you want to come around two rails for your next shot. Control the spin to make shot, while using the appropriate vertical axis to control cue ball.

Obviously you need to have many shots in your repertoire to play this game. In my opinion, using spin during a game is unavoidable. Knowing when and how much is the trick.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

Quote, Smooth Stroke: It's a shame a quality poster like Patrick Johnson or any poster is banned over a discussion.

Quote, Patrick Johnson: The addition of squirt/swerve makes aiming less reliable for anybody in any conditions. Needing to hit harder with center axis makes stroking less reliable for anybody, in any conditions. Both of these are less true for better players, but still true.

His Boy Elroy: Patrick Johnson may be a fine fellow; but, he claims he's an instructor. He must be; if not it would have been discovered by now. Because he's an instructor, readers and posters naturally read what he writes with more attention than your average poster. They assume they're learning something when they read him

They're often right. He has intelligent things to say on many subjects; unfortunately, he disrupts all threads where the subject matter is T.O.I or English/ spin to the point where the threads are exhausting to read, and I and I suspect many others, have no desire to post, no less finish reading.

So let's get this straight: Earl Strickland and Efren Reyes are hall of famers. Not only that, they're in the elite class of hall of famers. They know how to hit a center ball. Is there anybody out there who really believes that Earl and Efren are unaware of the center ball hit or have never tried it?

In fact; I don't think I'd be going out on a limb too far in saying that Earl and Efren are probably two of the best center- ball hitters in the world.

Fran Crimmi writes that she's seen both play close up and that both use generous amounts of spin. Now; if what Patrick Johnson says is true, and the addition of squirt/swerve makes aiming less reliable for anybody, in any conditions, don't ya' think the two of them would have figured this out by now?

I'm sure they practice center-ball every day.They have to shoot their straight in shots with it, and such practice is needed to maintain a straight stroke. So; if what Patrick Johnson writes is, in fact, the truth; and if the absence of squirt and swerve makes aiming more reliable, don't you think sometime in the last 40 or 50 years while practicing center-ball, they would have said to themselves, "My! When I hit center-ball, it seems as if the absence of squirt and spin makes my aiming more reliable!

I mean; I 'm sure Mr. Johnson will concede that Strickland and Reyes are two of the best players ever to have picked up a cue; but he also believes that if they would have had better instruction, provided by instructors such as himself, or those like minded, well; they would have been better players........

I don't post much.I really haven't replied to him that often. If he was any old poster he'd be ignored a lot; but, he's an instructor, and as I said, he has some intelligent things to say when writing about other aspects of the game. That's what forces those who have more patience than I to take him on. Beginners also recognize that he sometimes has intelligent things to say when writing about other aspects of the game, so they think they're learning something when he posts in T.O.I./ spin threads. They don't know how mistaken they are.

SOMEONE HAS TO TELL THEM! I admire those who have.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

What we have been saying all along, is that if the shot can be done without english, there is no need to use english.

If we say to stay on or near center axis except when necessary to use english, simple deduction then means to use english when it is necessary. We haven't changed our tune at all. It your side saying that stay near center axis except when necessary must mean to never use english.

All myself, Pat, and a number of others have been saying all along, is that it is better to stay nearer the center axis than to use spin on every shot. You know BHE, and have it worked out good for you. I have my own way of compensating for deflection and throw. Both work good for us. Most have no clue about how to properly compensate.

But far too many use english on every shot, no matter what. Rick is a prime example. They don't even know what can be accomplished staying near the center axis. And, likewise, have no clue how much their games can improve if they learn how to do it.

Many of the top players today, and some from yesteryears, advocate the same thing. Why some of you want to dismiss them completely is beyond me. Anyways, I'm done with this thread. Have a good night.

Ugh....gee....Neil,,
I've been hanging out here occasionally for 29 months and you've been following around C.J Wiley the whole time, pointing out your opinions as to the flaws in T.O.I., or more accurately, using your key pad to hurl slings and arrows at ALL THINGS T.O.I.

I'm SURE you'll correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be making a few references to supporting the idea of playing center or close to center. That's how I play!. BY GOLLY: WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE! P.M me your address, would ya' ? I want to send you some candy!

CJ teaches intermediates to go center-center, center-edge. Now that''s definitely off center, but at the advanced stages, the idea is to use as slight an amount of spin as possible. The idea is to go slighter, slighter, and slighter, and stop at the point where if you wanted to go any slighter, it would be a pure center ball hit.

I was looking at some old threads the other day a poster named " West Point" called it a refined center ball hit. I agree.

Of course, when I started out years ago doing my own version of T.O.I I was going fairly far from center, but you got to start out somewhere. After gaining skill going center-center, center-edge (well: not exactly....as I said it was my own version of T.O.I.) I started moving in closer to the center until I'm where I'm at now; but, I'd never be able to apply such a slight spin if I had not first gained skill while outside.
Right now, I'm so near center, that I 'm not sure anyone observing me would be able to tell I'm deviating from center to any degree.

Not only that, but I try not to use English to get shape. ( The spin used in T.O.I. Is so slight it deadens upon contact with the OB. I'll define English as spin to a degree where the CB continues to spin upon contact with the OB) I use T.O.I. on almost every shot, but I like to combine it with speed to get shape if I can instead of using English.

So Neil....buddy.....pal.......Do you like chocolate turtles?

 

[KRJ]

In theory, one would think it's true about using English only when you need to, but it doesn't work that way in real life. Spinners will spin balls. That's the reality of it. Their reality is the opposite ----- only use center ball when they absolutely have to.

You all may think it's ridiculous or that it doesn't make sense, but that's their style, and so many of them are absolutely brilliant at it.

Most of the time a pro will miss a shot in competition because he's not committed to it, not because he's trying to use spin.

Yeah, you're right, i'm talking about most amateurs, not pro's. The pro's spin at will, and played so much they know the exact amount needed for all shots. But, I still contend they can spin too much or too little, and miss a shot or two, but then again, that could be a result of not being focused as well

 

[His Boy Elroy]

You realize they are still hitting center when they go low, when not trying to draw. Most good players use low for stop shots so they can slow down the cue ball for shape, or just stopping on straight in. But it's still center, none the less.

I'm perplexed that folks don't know you only use English when you need to, it seems pretty simple concept. Since it complicates the shot, and most shots when pro's miss, was because of the use of English.

Of course, they miss a LOT less than us, but the concept is the same. Though, I still think Earl spins everything, but he's Earl, and can do whatever he likes

I hate to see that anyone a mere 34 miles away from me is perplexed. I'll do what I can. I'm a practitioner of T.O.I. I practice it precisely the way CJ Wiley teaches it. This is not because I lack critical thinking skills; rather, it's because after thinking about it critically, I find no flaws in it.

I'm sure you occasionally miss shots. I didn't see you in the brackets for the last Chinese Open. I didn't book any flights fior Shanghai that week either. The reason center ball shots are missed is because it's so difficult to come forward with the cue perfectly straight.

If there's even a very slight crookedness to the stroke it has the effect of pivot spin. This puts un-intentional spin and thus, deflection on the cue ball. Naturally, this many times, causes the shot to be missed

Coming forward perfectly straight with the cue is a very complicated endeavor. Intermediates who learn how to put English on most every shot by practicing T.O.I believe that deliberately applying English to the CB and compensating for the ensuing squirt and deflection, is a less complicated endeavor.

As one gets better at T.O.I and starts moving the tip more to the center of the ball, they believe it is even a less complicated endeavor

Finally, as I explained in the previous post, if one reaches an advanced levell, the spin becomes so slight that it becomes deadened upon contact with the OB and we no longer call it English. We just call it deflection. We reserve he word "English" to shots where the spin is of a degree where the CB continues spinning after contact with the OB.

If you believe it's a less complicated endeavor to come forward perfectly straight with the cue, I can understand even if I disagree; I just hope your no longer perplexed by those of us who believe that coming forward perfectly straigh with the cue is the more complicated endeavor.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I hate to see that anyone a mere 34 miles away from me is perplexed. I'll do what I can. I'm a practitioner of T.O.I. I practice it precisely the way CJ Wiley teaches it. This is not because I lack critical thinking skills; rather, it's because after thinking about it critically, I find no flaws in it.

I'm sure you occasionally miss shots. I didn't see you in the brackets for the last Chinese Open. I didn't book any flights fior Shanghai that week either. The reason center ball shots are missed is because it's so difficult to come forward with the cue perfectly straight.

If there's even a very slight crookedness to the stroke it has the effect of pivot spin. This puts un-intentional spin and thus, deflection on the cue ball. Naturally, this many times, causes the shot to be missed

Coming forward perfectly straight with the cue is a very complicated endeavor. Intermediates who learn how to put English on most every shot by practicing T.O.I believe that deliberately applying English to the CB and compensating for the ensuing squirt and deflection, is a less complicated endeavor.

As one gets better at T.O.I and starts moving the tip more to the center of the ball, they believe it is even a less complicated endeavor

Finally, as I explained in the previous post, if one reaches an advanced levell, the spin becomes so slight that it becomes deadened upon contact with the OB and we no longer call it English. We just call it deflection. We reserve he word "English" to shots where the spin is of a degree where the CB continues spinning after contact with the OB.

If you believe it's a less complicated endeavor to come forward perfectly straight with the cue, I can understand even if I disagree; I just hope your no longer perplexed by those of us who believe that coming forward perfectly straigh with the cue is the more complicated endeavor.

I completely agree.I brought this up in a different thread and it fell on practically deaf ears.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Tell that to my wife

Thanks for the laugh, Jon. I really liked that & got two good laughs out of it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,

Hitting stun shots and hard shots is also an art. You have to learn how to play the three basic speeds. And that's why the table must have tight pockets (4 inch). There is no room for errors there. SPEED is the No 1 reason for missed shots.

I can understand speed being considered the #1 reason because if one plans for certain aspects & then does not hit the shot at the appropriate speed for the plan then the outcome will not be as planned.

The thing is that there are more than a few 'bangers' that have a good eye for the angle & can hit 'em hard & pocket a lot of balls but when they try to shoot softly they generally mis because they don't know what comes into play.

The real art is being able to do them ALL well.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

WildWing made an excellent post, short and sweet with quality info.

I don't post much so here is my long winded crap.

It is ashame a quality poster like Patrick Johnson or any poster is banned over a discussion. The passion for this game is like no other, as no other game is like pool. If everyone here gathered in a pool room for a week, at the end of the week everyone might learn something from each other and call each other friend.


The game and your opponent will not allow you to play one way. You can favor a style but you must be able to do it all, and do it with confidence. If you are gun shy and afraid to pull the trigger you will sit in the chair while your opponent uses the cue ball.

The cue ball is like a dart board. There is a bull's eye, double and triple zones, and everything in between.
Strike on any mark needed for the shot and what the cue ball and game are asking you to do. Let the cue ball work, do its job; the strike mark does not matter, the stroke and speeds 1, 2, 3 matters. Playing in proper speed is a high priority.

I like to use BHE. It doesn't mean I can't hit extreme outside at 4:30 with power or finesse.

I like to play inside the cue ball, that doesn’t mean center ball. If needed I can generate much spin, little spin, and no spin playing inside and can flatten the cue ball perfectly with stroke technique.

I play 99% lower cue ball, rarely higher than the horizontal cross hair, yes I can achieve a rolling cue ball.

I have no problem with extreme spin or power, my finesse game is just fine

I use upstrokes and down strokes, I clear my cue when many experts say its taboo, meanwhile every world champ does it, Mosconi did it a lot, poor Willie never read the book.

Playing the vertical crease and using the ladder system is not that difficult, none of it is difficult.

Many discussions on here are way over the top, too complicated. If I were just beginning to play and read these forums I would kill myself, or stab myself in the eye with a very large sword.

If you look at the greatest players in history, you can count on 1 finger how many of them read the book.
Go watch Willie clear the cue and use BHE, Efren clear the cue using draw, Sigel clearing the cue jumping up on every shot, Earl striking very low with spin and clearing the cue so high it could become an antenna. Watch how many champs complete to an extended dust stroke.

Look at many of today's second and third tier players trying to play by the book. They look like a bunch of stiff robots; the natural looks like it was squeezed out of them through their butt, their strokes look constipated. Much of today's literature and teachings have them in a catatonic state, 99% of them will always be lower tier players, unless they play over their head and everyone else falls asleep, few if any will achieve greatness, they are at a dead end, they need to borrow the oil can from the Tin Man.

Center ball and vertical crease are overrated, but you must hit them accurately when needed, it all matters.
All of it is so simple to understand you just need a few things, it's not Rocket Science.

A Straight Stroke
Mastery of Stroke technique and speed
Imagination
Learn to play 3 cushion and learn the cue ball, take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

Sincerely:SS

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[ENGLISH!]

Quote, Smooth Stroke: It's a shame a quality poster like Patrick Johnson or any poster is banned over a discussion.

Quote, Patrick Johnson: The addition of squirt/swerve makes aiming less reliable for anybody in any conditions. Needing to hit harder with center axis makes stroking less reliable for anybody, in any conditions. Both of these are less true for better players, but still true.

His Boy Elroy: Patrick Johnson may be a fine fellow; but, he claims he's an instructor. He must be; if not it would have been discovered by now. Because he's an instructor, readers and posters naturally read what he writes with more attention than your average poster. They assume they're learning something when they read him

They're often right. He has intelligent things to say on many subjects; unfortunately, he disrupts all threads where the subject matter is T.O.I or English/ spin to the point where the threads are exhausting to read, and I and I suspect many others, have no desire to post, no less finish reading.

So let's get this straight: Earl Strickland and Efren Reyes are hall of famers. Not only that, they're in the elite class of hall of famers. They know how to hit a center ball. Is there anybody out there who really believes that Earl and Efren are unaware of the center ball hit or have never tried it?

In fact; I don't think I'd be going out on a limb too far in saying that Earl and Efren are probably two of the best center- ball hitters in the world.

Fran Crimmi writes that she's seen both play close up and that both use generous amounts of spin. Now; if what Patrick Johnson says is true, and the addition of squirt/swerve makes aiming less reliable for anybody, in any conditions, don't ya' think the two of them would have figured this out by now?

I'm sure they practice center-ball every day.They have to shoot their straight in shots with it, and such practice is needed to maintain a straight stroke. So; if what Patrick Johnson writes is, in fact, the truth; and if the absence of squirt and swerve makes aiming more reliable, don't you think sometime in the last 40 or 50 years while practicing center-ball, they would have said to themselves, "My! When I hit center-ball, it seems as if the absence of squirt and spin makes my aiming more reliable!

I mean; I 'm sure Mr. Johnson will concede that Strickland and Reyes are two of the best players ever to have picked up a cue; but he also believes that if they would have had better instruction, provided by instructors such as himself, or those like minded, well; they would have been better players........

I don't post much.I really haven't replied to him that often. If he was any old poster he'd be ignored a lot; but, he's an instructor, and as I said, he has some intelligent things to say when writing about other aspects of the game. That's what forces those who have more patience than I to take him on. Beginners also recognize that he sometimes has intelligent things to say when writing about other aspects of the game, so they think they're learning something when he posts in T.O.I./ spin threads. They don't know how mistaken they are.

SOMEONE HAS TO TELL THEM! I admire those who have.

:thumbup2:

FAR OUT!

That comes for the movie North Dallas Forty when Matuzack's character tells of the assistant coach off & the whole locker room is silently listening to him, & then Nick Nolte's character says, 'Far Out!'.

So...FAR OUT!

 

[ENGLISH!]

I hate to see that anyone a mere 34 miles away from me is perplexed. I'll do what I can. I'm a practitioner of T.O.I. I practice it precisely the way CJ Wiley teaches it. This is not because I lack critical thinking skills; rather, it's because after thinking about it critically, I find no flaws in it.

I'm sure you occasionally miss shots. I didn't see you in the brackets for the last Chinese Open. I didn't book any flights fior Shanghai that week either. The reason center ball shots are missed is because it's so difficult to come forward with the cue perfectly straight.

If there's even a very slight crookedness to the stroke it has the effect of pivot spin. This puts un-intentional spin and thus, deflection on the cue ball. Naturally, this many times, causes the shot to be missed

Coming forward perfectly straight with the cue is a very complicated endeavor. Intermediates who learn how to put English on most every shot by practicing T.O.I believe that deliberately applying English to the CB and compensating for the ensuing squirt and deflection, is a less complicated endeavor.

As one gets better at T.O.I and starts moving the tip more to the center of the ball, they believe it is even a less complicated endeavor

Finally, as I explained in the previous post, if one reaches an advanced levell, the spin becomes so slight that it becomes deadened upon contact with the OB and we no longer call it English. We just call it deflection. We reserve he word "English" to shots where the spin is of a degree where the CB continues spinning after contact with the OB.

If you believe it's a less complicated endeavor to come forward perfectly straight with the cue, I can understand even if I disagree; I just hope your no longer perplexed by those of us who believe that coming forward perfectly straigh with the cue is the more complicated endeavor.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[midnightpulp]

I mean as i said, mastery of centre ball is difficult. If you can put the ball anywhere on the table without side spin, you're formidable.

Spin for show, centre for dough.

Strange perspective.

I mean, no cue sport player on the planet has mastery over anything, since if they did, they'd never miss, but center ball is much easier to play with than English. So much more consistent and accurate.

For the rotation games, spin does get you the dough, too, since you'll often find the natural vertical axis path is blocked by other balls. Or you might need to throw a ball in to hold your angle.

Excessive spin is for show, though.