Centerball...haters gonna hate

[FranCrimi]

It's not about one shot, Fran; it's about shooting at your most consistent over many shots and many matches. For you it might only mean missing 1 more shot out of 100 - but it's still worse than you might do otherwise, and 1/100 matters more at your level.

pj
chgo

I don't think you can quantify things that way. The physics may be the same for all of us, but the preferences and outcomes aren't. A center ball player may miss a shot because he has to hit it hard in order to move the cb around the table on a particular shot that could just as easily be accomplished with spin and a softer hit --- but he may not feel comfortable using that much spin.

What you're looking for is the best of both worlds and I'm trying to explain that players will lean on one side or the other.

Case in point: It's one of the reasons Eften got his nickname as the Magician. He can shoot a shot fairly softly and move the cue ball a long distance. Many tables have pocket facings that don't like hard-hit shots, even though the pocket size may be wide. Also, he can soft-kick with spin better than anyone I've seen.

It's one of the reasons why Efren has always struggled with his break. He's not a punch player. He's the epitome of a finesse player, and yes, he will spin a ball when physics dictates that it isn't necessary, but it keeps him consistent.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I mean as i said, mastery of centre ball is difficult. If you can put the ball anywhere on the table without side spin, you're formidable.

Spin for show, centre for dough.

Indeed, if one could do all that is possible by implementing english while just hitting on the center axis, one would indeed be very formidable.

Funny thing is that that 'god' does not exist, or at least I have not yet seen him.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I don't think you can quantify things that way. The physics may be the same for all of us, but the preferences and outcomes aren't. A center ball player may miss a shot because he has to hit it hard in order to move the cb around the table on a particular shot that could just as easily be accomplished with spin and a softer hit --- but he may not feel comfortable using that much spin.

What you're looking for is the best of both worlds and I'm trying to explain that players will lean on one side or the other.

Case in point: It's one of the reasons Eften got his nickname as the Magician. He can shoot a shot fairly softly and move the cue ball a long distance. Many tables have pocket facings that don't like hard-hit shots, even though the pocket size may be wide. Also, he can soft-kick with spin better than anyone I've seen.

It's one of the reasons why Efren has always struggled with his break. He's not a punch player. He's the epitome of a finesse player, and yes, he will spin a ball when physics dictates that it isn't necessary, but it keeps him consistent.

I agree. Players need to learn spin and no-spin and then play with whatever style works for them and suits them best. Just because you use one method over the other, doesn't mean you shouldn't know the other method and be prepared to use it when needed.

I use "English" on almost EVERY shot if you consider hitting "inside" on the cue ball on MOST shots to be "English".

The reason a lot of players today use "English" all the time is because they never had to learn to play when a good "stroke" was required to move the cue ball around the table.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't think you can quantify things that way. The physics may be the same for all of us, but the preferences and outcomes aren't. A center ball player may miss a shot because he has to hit it hard in order to move the cb around the table on a particular shot that could just as easily be accomplished with spin and a softer hit --- but he may not feel comfortable using that much spin.

What you're looking for is the best of both worlds and I'm trying to explain that players will lean on one side or the other.

Case in point: It's one of the reasons Eften got his nickname as the Magician. He can shoot a shot fairly softly and move the cue ball a long distance. Many tables have pocket facings that don't like hard-hit shots, even though the pocket size may be wide. Also, he can soft-kick with spin better than anyone I've seen.

It's one of the reasons why Efren has always struggled with his break. He's not a punch player. He's the epitome of a finesse player, and yes, he will spin a ball when physics dictates that it isn't necessary, but it keeps him consistent.

Fran,

I was going to politely say something about lipstick, but I do not think making light of that comment is the right thing to do.

You exhibit rational thinking in reference to the real world instead of the hypothetical world where one can change parameters to suit one's opinion or agenda.

IMO, You are the Real Deal when it comes to knowing the game & how to play it.

If I have to take ridicule (or get banned) for speaking my thoughts & opinions about what I think & feel are the truth, then so be it.

You Please Have a Great Rest of the Weekend.
Rick

 

[Mr. Wilson]

And now she has lipstick all over her ass, thankyouverymuch.

pj <- won't Mr. Wilson be jealous?
chgo

Ready for a time out?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What you're looking for is the best of both worlds

That's a way of putting it. I'd say I'm looking to take into account all the things that might affect my chances of success.

I'm trying to explain that players will lean on one side or the other.

I agree with that - I just don't think that means it's always best.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Ready for a time out?

It was a hard one to pass up.

pj
chgo

 

[WildWing]

You realize they are still hitting center when they go low, when not trying to draw.

Since you questioned me, yes, that pearl of wisdom is not lost on me. I was addressing the original poster's question, which was on pure centerball strike, as he addressed draw and follow as a completely different thought, later in his post. It could be awhile since you've referred to the original post. Suggest you read it again.

My point was simple. Low is better for stability. By the way, english is also needed for position, whether outside or inside; it depends on where you need to cueball to be. No english on a cut shot is bad, as the cueball drags the object ball a bit. Then you miss.

Well-known center ball strikers? None. But, in fairness, I'll mention a few that came close. Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras, and Buddy Hall. Even they went a bit below center, if you watch close enough.

All the best,
WW

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Low is better for stability.

I think a sliding ball (hit below center) is more susceptible to swerve, so I'd rather roll the CB (hit it above center) for the most reliable result. If I have to cinch a shot and it's safe to do so, I'll almost always roll the CB.

Is that what you mean by stability?

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think a sliding ball (hit below center) is more susceptible to swerve, so I'd rather roll the CB (hit it above center) for the most reliable result. If I have to cinch a shot and it's safe to do so, I'll almost always roll the CB.

Is that what you mean by stability?

pj
chgo

Since we have both had our mouths washed out with soap, do you think we might be able to have a peaceful conversation or would you rather just not?

 

[azhousepro]

Mr. Wilson didn't step in on this thread. I did.

Just as a warning for all though, the next reported post that includes "I guess that is ok" or "If you want me gone then just give me the boot." will certainly be answered with a ban. If you want to report a post, just report the post. I don't need the added commentary.

Mike

 

[WildWing]

I think a sliding ball (hit below center) is more susceptible to swerve, so I'd rather roll the CB (hit it above center) for the most reliable result. If I have to cinch a shot and it's safe to do so, I'll almost always roll the CB.

Is that what you mean by stability?

pj
chgo

No. Reread my posts.

 

[ENGLISH!]

"No Spin"
According to CJ Wiley:
His accent is intriguing and I've had several brief conversations with Efren and although he is a "man of few words," when he does say something he's like "EF HUTTON" (if you remember the commercials), people certainly listen.

I ask him "what do you do that makes you better than the American players?".....he looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and replied "No Spin".

Mr. Cantrall,

CJ explained that by 'no spin' Efren means after contact. For that to happen the cue ball must be spinning with inside spin in just the correct amount so that it counters the outside spin that it picks up from the collision with the OB.

I certainly do not think that Efren's answer was intended to apply to every shot or to even to most shots as Efren certainly plays with spin as was pointed out by Ms. Crimi.

This is intended just as food for thought & not meant to be argumentative in any way.

You Have a Great Evening.

 

[FranCrimi]

"No Spin"
According to CJ Wiley:
His accent is intriguing and I've had several brief conversations with Efren and although he is a "man of few words," when he does say something he's like "EF HUTTON" (if you remember the commercials), people certainly listen.

I ask him "what do you do that makes you better than the American players?".....he looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and replied "No Spin".

Ha! Efren was either making a joke about himself or saying that the Americans don't use enough spin. I wonder how CJ interpreted it.

 

[backplaying]

Maybe we should all use TOI....(another version of Godwin's law, or would that have to be CTE?)

Good answer. The fact is you will use what is needed to get on the next ball. No one plays good enough to hit only center ball.

 

[ENGLISH!]

PJ to WildWing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think a sliding ball (hit below center) is more susceptible to swerve, so I'd rather roll the CB (hit it above center) for the most reliable result. If I have to cinch a shot and it's safe to do so, I'll almost always roll the CB.

Is that what you mean by stability?

pj
chgo

Me to PJ:

Since we have both had our mouths washed out with soap, do you think we might be able to have a peaceful conversation or would you rather just not?

That was intended as an invitation, but when I read it again, I can see how it might be considered as a criticism. It was not intended as such.

I was asking if a peaceful conversation could be had about what WindWing was talking about... or if PJ would just rather not have one...with me.

I once had in my sig line what I think perhaps should be my 'Theme Song'... "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good, Oh Lord, Please don't let me be misunderstood."

 

[duckie]

By Practicing and playing 14.1, it will become apparent that the use of all types of spin is required.

The key is knowing when to use what spin.

Sometimes the way the balls lay, stop shots are the best choice. Other times, you got to move the CB around with running spin or at times hold it up with reverse spin.

Sometimes you have to throw the ob of a combo into the pocket using spin.

If one does not play or practice games that require profiecent use of all types of spin, it is easy to get into the mindset that spin is not necessary.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Mr. Wilson didn't step in on this thread. I did.

Just as a warning for all though, the next reported post that includes "I guess that is ok" or "If you want me gone then just give me the boot." will certainly be answered with a ban. If you want to report a post, just report the post. I don't need the added commentary.

Mike

Was PJ banned for making a joke about someone kissing butt?

Seriously, Mike?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Ha! Efren was either making a joke about himself or saying that the Americans don't use enough spin. I wonder how CJ interpreted it.

I have observed that Efrin uses spin in a different way. A lot of times, he spins so the rotational speed equals the forward speed at impact. The object ball gets no throw due to friction. The object ball may slide a little but has no sidespin on the way to the pocket. I wonder if this was to what he was referring.

Edit....it seems to be a quality with Filipino players. Comes from dealing with
the humidity?

 

[FranCrimi]

I have observed that Efrin uses spin in a different way. A lot of times, he spins so the rotational speed equals the forward speed at impact. The object ball gets no throw due to friction. The object ball may slide a little but has no sidespin on the way to the pocket. I wonder if this was to what he was referring.

Edit....it seems to be a quality with Filipino players. Comes from dealing with
the humidity?

I don't really know what that means but I have watched him play live several times and there is no shortage of side spin when he plays.