Huzza, huzza!!!
Change in 9 ball rules
- Thread starter RafaReyes
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Huzza, huzza!!!
Why is it, that everyone remembers when someone got a lucky roll against them, and won a game, (even a match game) but they never seem to remember when they got a lucky roll, or lucky shot to win a game or match.
I for one know I've done it I've seen some of the people posting here do it. I've seen pro's do it. If you play 9 ball, at some point you've done it and won because of it.
If you're playing against someone, and you don't want slop to count, get them to play no slop 9 ball. If you're wanting to spot someone something, but don't want them to slop in their money ball, make it call the money ball. If you're giving up weight, see if the other person will accept a spot where you DON'T get any slop. (If you don't usually slop something in, and they're willing to take that as a spot, all the better for you)
But why is it, every time someone doesn't like the way something turns out for them, they say 'lets change the rules' to better suit themselves?
Life isn't fair. Some times you get lucky, some times you don't. Maybe you can change the rules of life where it's fair to all seeing as you're asking for rules to be changed...
my $.02
I for one know I've done it I've seen some of the people posting here do it. I've seen pro's do it. If you play 9 ball, at some point you've done it and won because of it.
If you're playing against someone, and you don't want slop to count, get them to play no slop 9 ball. If you're wanting to spot someone something, but don't want them to slop in their money ball, make it call the money ball. If you're giving up weight, see if the other person will accept a spot where you DON'T get any slop. (If you don't usually slop something in, and they're willing to take that as a spot, all the better for you)
But why is it, every time someone doesn't like the way something turns out for them, they say 'lets change the rules' to better suit themselves?
Life isn't fair. Some times you get lucky, some times you don't. Maybe you can change the rules of life where it's fair to all seeing as you're asking for rules to be changed...
my $.02
I agree with you about the luck factor in 9 ball.
Here's an example:
I play in a weekly local 9 ball league (Texas Express rules) and the matches are race to 9 no handicap. The teams are made up of 3 players and to keep the teams from loading up with the best players around they are made up of 1 AA player, 1 A player, & 1 B player. The player's skill level is determined by the team captains voting to see if a player is playing below his skill level and it's been pretty close to right so far.
I played a guy and he made the 9 ball on the break 3 times during the match with me racking for him and the racks he was giving me were not tight, but to avoid an argument I didn't check them as close as I should have. So after his 3 9 balls on the break he needs to win 6 games and I need to win 9 and we are supposed to be playing even!
I mentioned to the guy in charge of the league about making a rule change before this match was played about not winning if the 9 goes on the break and I asked him to bring it up at the captain's meeting. He wouldn't even consider it and said it was part of the game. The break shot is luck and in this match my opponent gets very lucky and wins 3 games off of pure luck and he beat me in the match because of the 3 free games he got off the break. I've had the 9 ball made on the break twice a number of times, but this was the first time someone did it 3 times.
It's tough enough playing 9 ball dealing with players getting lucky rolls and winning games, but to me I don't think the game should be won by making the 9 ball on the break. How much skill is involved with hitting the rack hard and hoping the 9 goes?
James
Which pockets did the 9 ball go in? If they went in the bottom two then it is more your fault that they went in and not so much his good luck.
BVal
Some suggestions for changing the rules of 9 ball!!!
I am one of those that don't like the luck factor in 9 ball but I realize that many people won't play in tournaments if the luck factor is removed.
So I propose the following changes:
1. Called 9 ball - you should never win by shitting in the money ball. That is why in handicapped tournaments if a player is getting the 7 ball they have to call it.
2. 9 Ball must be played IN TURN, that is, the last ball on the table. No 1-9 combo's or crap like that. Again remove the luck factor to WINNING the game. How many times have you broken dry only to see a 1-9 combo setup for the other guy.
3. No 9 ball on the break. See #2. Again no one should win on something so lucky. I myself lost a set in a race to 5 tournament when the other guy broke in THREE nine balls.
With these rule changes, a player can still shit in EIGHT balls, with or without shape on the next ball (how many times has THAT happened!) so the luck factor is not completely removed from the game (for those folks that think that is somehow necessary to the success of the game.)
I actually do like the game of 9 ball with the great shot making, tactical safety play, kicking skills, considerable cue ball movement and positional play. In fact, if you play an A or above player, the game is very different than playing a lesser player. My game is better as a result and, personally, I enjoy it more.
Just my 2 cents (and my pet peeve!)
Stephen
I am one of those that don't like the luck factor in 9 ball but I realize that many people won't play in tournaments if the luck factor is removed.
So I propose the following changes:
1. Called 9 ball - you should never win by shitting in the money ball. That is why in handicapped tournaments if a player is getting the 7 ball they have to call it.
2. 9 Ball must be played IN TURN, that is, the last ball on the table. No 1-9 combo's or crap like that. Again remove the luck factor to WINNING the game. How many times have you broken dry only to see a 1-9 combo setup for the other guy.
3. No 9 ball on the break. See #2. Again no one should win on something so lucky. I myself lost a set in a race to 5 tournament when the other guy broke in THREE nine balls.
With these rule changes, a player can still shit in EIGHT balls, with or without shape on the next ball (how many times has THAT happened!) so the luck factor is not completely removed from the game (for those folks that think that is somehow necessary to the success of the game.)
I actually do like the game of 9 ball with the great shot making, tactical safety play, kicking skills, considerable cue ball movement and positional play. In fact, if you play an A or above player, the game is very different than playing a lesser player. My game is better as a result and, personally, I enjoy it more.
Just my 2 cents (and my pet peeve!)
Stephen
For what it's worth I seem to recall Efren saying that he was just trying to hit it and got lucky. With that said though, if there was a call pocket rule in that game he would have most definitely called that pocket.
MULLY
The Difference Between Skill and Slop
The situations above that you list do not compare with the slop in 9 ball and 10 ball. Those situations above are athletic skills of athletes able to make miraculous catches as Franco Harris made. There is nothing miraculous when shooting at a pocket and missing and knocking another ball in. If anything it is embarrassing. I don't know how anybody could say slop should be a part of a game in the Sport of Pool.
The situations above that you list do not compare with the slop in 9 ball and 10 ball. Those situations above are athletic skills of athletes able to make miraculous catches as Franco Harris made. There is nothing miraculous when shooting at a pocket and missing and knocking another ball in. If anything it is embarrassing. I don't know how anybody could say slop should be a part of a game in the Sport of Pool.
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Rep to you. I couldn't agree more. Sure, it pisses me off when I lose a match because of the luck factor but in all fairness the pool Gods have smiled on me that way on more than one occasion. It all evens out.
MULLY
The slop / luck factor of 9 ball is why many pro tournaments have since gone to 10-ball, as it is a call shot game & you can't win simply by pocketing a certain ball on the break. 10 ball is the game 9 ball should have been.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/download/10ball.pdf
http://www.wpa-pool.com/download/10ball.pdf
set the game up so the best player always wins and then watch as the game disappears. no one plays sports where the best always wins like tennis. it is a dying sport for the masses maybe not for tv. but its no fun as you always lose to the better player.
you should be happy when a worse player gets lucky and beats a better one. he comes back to play again.
you should be happy when a worse player gets lucky and beats a better one. he comes back to play again.
You're insane and you're using lunatic logic to back up your insanity. I mean,,,I don't even know where to begin with this, AND I HATE 9BALL.
Lucky 9 O'Yeah!...Luck, not Hardly!
Well I know its hard to Fathom for some of you weaker players, but 9-Ball is Not a game of Luck!
Believe it or not, good players play those two and three rail carom, combination, and bank shots, because they are "9-ball Specialist!"
It may not happen so much on a big table but on a bar box its quiet frequent, I've seen it time and time again from real good players, myself included, that are aware of where there balls are on the table and have Mastered this kind of play!
I play each player different, if he's a run out player, thats how I will play, if the player doesn't run out that often , then they will get the "Early 9-Ball Treatment!"
I myself don't remember (many) any Lucky shots in 9-ball, in a Major Tournament, they've got to be few and far between, those guy's are playing run out pool!
The only time I've noticed Luck to be a Factor in a 9-ball game from my 38 years of playing pool, has been between Two players that Can't play a Lick!, so just where do you rank Yourself?
David Harcrow
Well I know its hard to Fathom for some of you weaker players, but 9-Ball is Not a game of Luck!
Believe it or not, good players play those two and three rail carom, combination, and bank shots, because they are "9-ball Specialist!"
It may not happen so much on a big table but on a bar box its quiet frequent, I've seen it time and time again from real good players, myself included, that are aware of where there balls are on the table and have Mastered this kind of play!
I play each player different, if he's a run out player, thats how I will play, if the player doesn't run out that often , then they will get the "Early 9-Ball Treatment!"
I myself don't remember (many) any Lucky shots in 9-ball, in a Major Tournament, they've got to be few and far between, those guy's are playing run out pool!
The only time I've noticed Luck to be a Factor in a 9-ball game from my 38 years of playing pool, has been between Two players that Can't play a Lick!, so just where do you rank Yourself?
David Harcrow
Well anything done at a high level takes skill, but 9ball allows for too many mediocre players to have a good day against great players, and that is simply not right. The nature of the game has too many weaknesses. Or maybe it's not the games, it's the table. How about 12' tight pockets....NOW position play would REALLY count.
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9 ball was a good game of shot making-position play game in the 60's and 70's.
It was played as " push-out ".
The push out rules took most of the luck out of the game. 1 foul rules were invented in the early 70" as a way to speed up the game for tourney's only....nobody gambled at 1 foul....it was called tournment rules in the rule book (bca,etc ).
There was and still is a game to play if you want to duck....1 hole. 9 ball went down the tubes when push-out died...2 bad...it was a good game. long live bank pool..hardly and luck or rolls...a great game
opps.....fell off my soap box....lol
It was played as " push-out ".
The push out rules took most of the luck out of the game. 1 foul rules were invented in the early 70" as a way to speed up the game for tourney's only....nobody gambled at 1 foul....it was called tournment rules in the rule book (bca,etc ).
There was and still is a game to play if you want to duck....1 hole. 9 ball went down the tubes when push-out died...2 bad...it was a good game. long live bank pool..hardly and luck or rolls...a great game
opps.....fell off my soap box....lol
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A lot of rules that seem sort of random actually have a reason. That includes 'slop counts'
In 9b, it's easy to safe an opponent - you have several balls to hide behind and only need to hook him on one them. To counteract the ease of safeties, the kicking player is allowed to shoot again if he gets a good hit and the ball happens to go in. It wouldn't make sense to kick him off the table after sinking a ball, thereby rewarding his nice hit with a slap in the face (his opponent gets to shoot and has 1 less ball to worry about).
Efren's Z kick was no accident. He took the route that was most likely to hit the ball. He was well aware that he might sink the ball in that pocket. Yes, he wants the hit, but he knows the shot may go in. And if efren were playing call pocket, that's the pocket he would have called. If you think that's too good to be true, you need to get better at pool. Pocketing the ball is an obvious outcome for even C players.
Your attitude about 9 ball isn't totally wrong, it has some luck and it's not a good game for deciding who should be champion. But half of 9b's problems are with the rack/break. There's a dead ball that doesn't require a lot of skill to make. Once you know how to do it, you can soft break and control the table for a while. Most rulesets make 9 on the break a win and that can happen if there's a gap in the wrong place in the rack. All of these issues combine to make a game where break and runouts are common. Because players at the highest level can run 5 or even 10 racks in a row, they need to make really long races to keep things fair.
In 10 ball, runouts are much less common (mostly because the rack has no guaranteed balls to make on the break). So a shorter race is more fair. And under some rulesets they expect you to call shots (at least the 10), and if the 10 rolls into a corner on the break, it doesn't mean an automatic win.
In 9b, it's easy to safe an opponent - you have several balls to hide behind and only need to hook him on one them. To counteract the ease of safeties, the kicking player is allowed to shoot again if he gets a good hit and the ball happens to go in. It wouldn't make sense to kick him off the table after sinking a ball, thereby rewarding his nice hit with a slap in the face (his opponent gets to shoot and has 1 less ball to worry about).
Efren's Z kick was no accident. He took the route that was most likely to hit the ball. He was well aware that he might sink the ball in that pocket. Yes, he wants the hit, but he knows the shot may go in. And if efren were playing call pocket, that's the pocket he would have called. If you think that's too good to be true, you need to get better at pool. Pocketing the ball is an obvious outcome for even C players.
Your attitude about 9 ball isn't totally wrong, it has some luck and it's not a good game for deciding who should be champion. But half of 9b's problems are with the rack/break. There's a dead ball that doesn't require a lot of skill to make. Once you know how to do it, you can soft break and control the table for a while. Most rulesets make 9 on the break a win and that can happen if there's a gap in the wrong place in the rack. All of these issues combine to make a game where break and runouts are common. Because players at the highest level can run 5 or even 10 racks in a row, they need to make really long races to keep things fair.
In 10 ball, runouts are much less common (mostly because the rack has no guaranteed balls to make on the break). So a shorter race is more fair. And under some rulesets they expect you to call shots (at least the 10), and if the 10 rolls into a corner on the break, it doesn't mean an automatic win.
Calling pockets won't change anything.
Sure I've had my share of luck kicking at balls but if it was 'Call Pocket' I would be calling the pocket I think that I would be the most mostly to make.
On any given 'Luck' shot there are usually onely 1 or 2 likely pockets a ball will go anyway , how much difference is calling one of them really going to make ?
I'm not all worried about the guy who's not even capable of narrowing the luck down to 1 or 2 pockets.
Sure I've had my share of luck kicking at balls but if it was 'Call Pocket' I would be calling the pocket I think that I would be the most mostly to make.
On any given 'Luck' shot there are usually onely 1 or 2 likely pockets a ball will go anyway , how much difference is calling one of them really going to make ?
I'm not all worried about the guy who's not even capable of narrowing the luck down to 1 or 2 pockets.
I guess youo make a point for people who don't play very well, but for those we see on TV and i most finals matches, these things are few and far between. That is the reason these players aren't near the finals and usually not anywhere near the finals.
There is a lot to be said about the luck factor in 9 ball, but the fact still remains that even in TV matches there are few gamees where the opposing player didn't at least have a shot to get control of the game.
I most games lie 14.1, 8 ball, and even 1pocket shots are optional and often with mant options. In 9 ball, more often than not, the real shot is to pocket the ball and that is where so many players have yet to realize that in pool the determming factor between win and loss is the ability to pocket balls. You can have the prettiest stroke, best stance, perfect bridge, aiming system, all of it, but, if you can't pocket balls and apply english on the cue ball, well, you usually get to go home early.
Nine ball will never be the game it was 30 years ago simply because everything in the game has geared toward the lesser player. Loser break, alternate break, race to 7, 1 foul, and even simonis. All this favors the weaker player alowing him more chances to the table with a ticky tack out.
wirh the old system of races to 11, winner break, and 2 shot foul, when a player pushed out on a shot, you had to really think about it becasue whether you took it or let Wade Crane shoot it, you werent' going to like what you saw. Either the ball went down or you were locked up tighter thatn FT, Knox.
I think we just have to live with it. It has chaged and it will never be back.