Changing pins

aphelps1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you change the transmission in a car, does that affect the way it drives?
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Be more specific with your question.
From what to what?
Ex.
From 5/16 to uni loc quick release. No
From 5/16 to radial. Yes.[/QUOTE]

why?
as long as the shaft and butt are connected tight and centered what difference does it make?
as a side note (sorry for the mini hijack)
is it not true that that you cant tell what type a joint a cue has ?(ie ivory vs stainless steel vs phenolic vs piloted vs flat faced??)
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Be more specific with your question.
From what to what?
Ex.
From 5/16 to uni loc quick release. No
From 5/16 to radial. Yes.[/QUOTE]

why?
as long as the shaft and butt are connected tight and centered what difference does it make?
as a side note (sorry for the mini hijack)
is it not true that that you cant tell what type a joint a cue has ?(ie ivory vs stainless steel vs phenolic vs piloted vs flat faced??)


I knew I should have stayed off the Internet.
Please don't tell me your referring to that stupid blind test of multiple cues with the joints taped up. Until you try all of those changes to one cue and one shaft. You just don't know.
Here's a quote from a local player that I don't even respect because he thinks because he read it. It must be true. Lmao. Not anymore
He plays with a revo. Pretty consistant huh! Uni loc joint.
He tries one with a radial screw.
He says, I can't believe how much more solid the hit feels.
I laughed and walked away. He says, I know you said it but the Internet. I laughed again and said. Stay off the Internet.
There is not one single joint or shaft set up, that fits every player. Accept don't condemn.
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I knew I should have stayed off the Internet.
Please don't tell me your referring to that stupid blind test of multiple cues with the joints taped up. Until you try all of those changes to one cue and one shaft. You just don't know.
Here's a quote from a local player that I don't even respect because he thinks because he read it. It must be true. Lmao. Not anymore
He plays with a revo. Pretty consistant huh! Uni loc joint.
He tries one with a radial screw.
He says, I can't believe how much more solid the hit feels.
I laughed and walked away. He says, I know you said it but the Internet. I laughed again and said. Stay off the Internet.
There is not one single joint or shaft set up, that fits every player. Accept don't condemn.

We must spending money needlessly on good collar materials.
We should just use colored polymer.

I've tested cues with joint screws installed the night before.
Somehow after two days and the epoxy getting harder, they hit better .

I've replaced G-10 screw with brass. Way different hit.


But, the best joint screw story I heard was one guy who claims his Falcon cue hits much better than most Falcon cues because his had 5/16 18 instead of 5/16 14. I walked away and did not even try to tell him he was nuts.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We must spending money needlessly on good collar materials.
We should just use colored polymer.

I've tested cues with joint screws installed the night before.
Somehow after two days and the epoxy getting harder, they hit better .

I've replaced G-10 screw with brass. Way different hit.


But, the best joint screw story I heard was one guy who claims his Falcon cue hits much better than most Falcon cues because his had 5/16 18 instead of 5/16 14. I walked away and did not even try to tell him he was nuts.

I knew I should have stayed off the Internet.
Please don't tell me your referring to that stupid blind test of multiple cues with the joints taped up. Until you try all of those changes to one cue and one shaft. You just don't know.
Here's a quote from a local player that I don't even respect because he thinks because he read it. It must be true. Lmao. Not anymore
He plays with a revo. Pretty consistant huh! Uni loc joint.
He tries one with a radial screw.
He says, I can't believe how much more solid the hit feels.
I laughed and walked away. He says, I know you said it but the Internet. I laughed again and said. Stay off the Internet.
There is not one single joint or shaft set up, that fits every player. Accept don't condemn.
Mike and joey
I asked because i trust your answers as opposed to beleiving without questioning what i read
Thanks for the replies
Larry
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike and joey
I asked because i trust your answers as opposed to beleiving without questioning what i read
Thanks for the replies
Larry


Hi Larry
The real answer is it's tuff action. I've built and repared cues with the major joint screws. 3/8x10, Radial, 3/8x11, 5/16x14 regular and acme and lastly 5/16x18. I would probably do the 3/8x10 acme to if one of my customers really wanted. I have the tooling. I think they're all very good. I control the tolerances because I make my own inserts if I need them. Except the uni loc quick release. It's not broke so why try to fix it and I haven't figured out exactly what the thread is yet. Maybe some day. But back to this topic. Most cues using a brass insert seem a little more flexible across the board compared to the joint screws going into wood. Depends on the inserts and amount of play in them.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi Larry
The real answer is it's tuff action. I've built and repared cues with the major joint screws. 3/8x10, Radial, 3/8x11, 5/16x14 regular and acme and lastly 5/16x18. I would probably do the 3/8x10 acme to if one of my customers really wanted. I have the tooling. I think they're all very good. I control the tolerances because I make my own inserts if I need them. Except the uni loc quick release. It's not broke so why try to fix it and I haven't figured out exactly what the thread is yet. Maybe some day. But back to this topic. Most cues using a brass insert seem a little more flexible across the board compared to the joint screws going into wood. Depends on the inserts and amount of play in them.

Thanks Mike for the more detailed reply
I really appreciate it
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As a sidenote I can mention that Mika Immonen was asked why he was playing with his old cue, instead of his $4000 Exceed MI4. He explained that it was in for a pin change, he could not get used to the wavy pin, he prefered the feel of the United Joint (5/16-14 piloted)
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
At least back when I started building cues and played a little better than I do now, I could tell the difference between 5/16 brass insert and the 3/8-10 pin. I could also tell the difference between piloted joint and flat faced joint, between stainless joint and phenolic and between phenolic and abs. I had a customer offer to take a cue for free or pay me full price and let me keep the cue if he could not tell the difference between a shaft with no insert and one with brass insert. I declined.
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
The problem with most people's interpretation of the difference is that they are usually talking about different cues or shafts, where the pin difference is likely the VERY LEAST of the factors that will make the cue hit or feel different.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
The problem with most people's interpretation of the difference is that they are usually talking about different cues or shafts, where the pin difference is likely the VERY LEAST of the factors that will make the cue hit or feel different.

Yes it's amazing what people think they can feel.

Without this, snake oil sales would plummet.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The problem with most people's interpretation of the difference is that they are usually talking about different cues or shafts, where the pin difference is likely the VERY LEAST of the factors that will make the cue hit or feel different.

Radial joint screws.
Stainless, Brass, Titanium, Aluminum and G10
Are you really sure about that statement? Try all 5 in the same cue. If the hit is the same. HOUSTON! There's a problem. If the weight and balance has changed. The hit has changed.
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Radial joint screws.
Stainless, Brass, Titanium, Aluminum and G10
Are you really sure about that statement? Try all 5 in the same cue. If the hit is the same. HOUSTON! There's a problem. If the weight and balance has changed. The hit has changed.

I agree Mike. I had a custom cue many years ago, that was originally built with a 3/8-10 stainless pin, the older minor diameter. The cue was gorgeous so of course I eventually sold it. :eek: At any rate, back to the "story." Something didn't "feel" right to me about the cue. I believed that the problem for whatever reason was the stainless pin. I couldn't put my finger on why, but for once in my life, I trusted my gut. ;) My Cue-maker at the time, told me I was nuts, but long story short, I convinced him to swap the pin from stainless, to the same 3/8-10, in G10, with the same, or close to the same minor diameter. The difference was unbelievable. Something about the material change to that particular pin, completely "unlocked" that cues potential IMO. FWIW, I am not a huge G10 fan in terms of pin material, but in this particular case, it mosdef seemed to have had a positive impact in terms of acoustics, and overall vibration transmission, as well as pulling the balance point back, a little closer to where I usually prefer. Call me crazy, but that was my honest experience, in one particular case. The changes were noticeable.
Sorry for jumping in gents...I just felt the experience had a little relevance to the OP's topic.
Best regards.
j2
 
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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree Mike. I had a custom cue many years ago, that was originally built with a 3/8-10 stainless pin, the older minor diameter. The cue was gorgeous so of course I eventually sold it. :eek: At any rate, back to the "story." Something didn't "feel" right to me about the cue. I believed that the problem for whatever reason was the stainless pin. I couldn't put my finger on why, but for once in my life, I trusted my gut. ;) My Cue-maker at the time, told me I was nuts, but long story short, I convinced him to swap the pin from stainless, to the same 3/8-10, in G10, with the same, or close to the same minor diameter. The difference was unbelievable. Something about the material change to that particular pin, completely "unlocked" that cues potential IMO. FWIW, I am not a huge G10 fan in terms of pin material, but in this particular case, it mosdef seemed to have had a positive impact in terms of acoustics, and overall vibration transmission, as well as pulling the balance point back, a little closer to where I usually prefer. Call me crazy, but that was my honest experience, in one particular case. The changes were noticeable.
Sorry for jumping in gents...I just felt the experience had a little relevance to the OP's topic.
Best regards.
j2

Nope. Not gonna call you crazy. It's a common occurrence. Joint screws matter and every player has and needs different options. Here's the reverse of my first story. Another local, revo shaft again. Uni loc joint, stainless collar 3/4x16 thread. I switch the joint to Birdseye maple and the screw to Titanium radial. It's a good switch, good up and coming player, I like him. But something's missing for him. So I switched the Titanium radial to a brass one. A little more weight at the joint. Bingo! He's happy now.
So again. There is not one set up that fits every player.
 
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