Changing your stroke, is it worth it?

Billiard Architect

Billiard Architect

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As you know I posted about creating a "thing" that straightens your stroke and I have been testing it. It does exactly what it is supposed to do but the problem is your brain is not used to shooting like this. It wants to correct that you are not shooting the same line that it thinks you should be. So you end up missing a lot of shots for your brain trying to over compensate. It is such an up hill battle sometimes I wonder if it is even worth it.
 
Johnny "V" said:
As you know I posted about creating a "thing" that straightens your stroke and I have been testing it. It does exactly what it is supposed to do but the problem is your brain is not used to shooting like this. It wants to correct that you are not shooting the same line that it thinks you should be. So you end up missing a lot of shots for your brain trying to over compensate. It is such an up hill battle sometimes I wonder if it is even worth it.
Click to expand...


That is the biggest problem with "stroke trainers" It forces you to make unatural movements that you 1) have a hard time visually aligning too, 2) Will fail underpressure.....(your body WILL move in its "natural" path under pressure)..

That is why stroke trainers like the "bottle drill" will stand the test of time...It does not set your body in a unatural position...It only requires that you figure out how to "naturally" make a consistent straight stroke...

I believe that Joe Tuckers new device will replace the "bottle drill" as it is the same basic concept.

Trainers that set your stance and body like a machine are fine to show what is "mechanically square"....but our bodies are not machines....and I for one do not have a "mechanically square" body.... :D
 
Johnny "V" said:
As you know I posted about creating a "thing" that straightens your stroke and I have been testing it. It does exactly what it is supposed to do but the problem is your brain is not used to shooting like this. It wants to correct that you are not shooting the same line that it thinks you should be. So you end up missing a lot of shots for your brain trying to over compensate. It is such an up hill battle sometimes I wonder if it is even worth it.
Click to expand...

Teaching Old Dogs NEW TRICKS, is TOUGH. But in time the Dog will learn. Breaking Habits be they good, or bad is TOUGH but in many cases worth the effort..... ;)
 
I have Joe Tuckers third eye stroke trainer. It definitely makes you stroke straight.
 
BRKNRUN said:
That is the biggest problem with "stroke trainers" It forces you to make unatural movements that you 1) have a hard time visually aligning too, 2) Will fail underpressure.....(your body WILL move in its "natural" path under pressure)..

That is why stroke trainers like the "bottle drill" will stand the test of time...It does not set your body in a unatural position...It only requires that you figure out how to "naturally" make a consistent straight stroke...

I believe that Joe Tuckers new device will replace the "bottle drill" as it is the same basic concept.

Trainers that set your stance and body like a machine are fine to show what is "mechanically square"....but our bodies are not machines....and I for one do not have a "mechanically square" body.... :D
Click to expand...


I agree, tweaking your stroke or stance is fine, but making major changes or trying to exactly mimic another style can be very harmful. I made major changes in my stance and stroke and it didn't work out well at all, plus I got neck and back pain as well.

Everyone has a slightly different style that works for them in any sport, I have seen some strokes that don't look so great from great players, lots of them from the Philippines. Many would say Efren's stroke is bad, it's hard to even tell what part of the cueball he is aiming at, but it works for him.

If your game is off and it's due to your stroke or stance, then you should make some adjustments but I would just make small adjustments and try and figure out just what the problem is, it's important to feel comfortable too.

People use to tell me not to putt cross handed, but it works for me and I see some pros doing it now too, when I was told to change it caused all kinds of problems and since my putting is pretty good, there was no reason to.

I have seen a few messed up worse by trying to have a perfect swing or mimic a so called perfect swing or stroke.
 
Hal said:
I have Joe Tuckers third eye stroke trainer. It definitely makes you stroke straight.
Click to expand...
I have to agree w/ Hal. I picked up Joe's racking secrets dvd and a third eye stroke trainer at the Joss Tour rear end at The Turningstone Casino. The dvd was everything we've come to expect from Joe's projects. But I must say the third eye stroke trainer was a very surprising bonus. It gets you on center ball and lets you know when you are steering your shots. Plus for myself the extended forks when used hitting straight in balls gives you added visual imput to help you find a "true" straight in path. You'd be surprised how many times what we see as straight in... isn't.

Joe,
Great product and thank you for the time you put into improving our game.
 
GARY LLOYD said:
I have to agree w/ Hal. I picked up Joe's racking secrets dvd and a third eye stroke trainer at the Joss Tour rear end at The Turningstone Casino. The dvd was everything we've come to expect from Joe's projects. But I must say the third eye stroke trainer was a very surprising bonus. It gets you on center ball and lets you know when you are steering your shots. Plus for myself the extended forks when used hitting straight in balls gives you added visual imput to help you find a "true" straight in path. You'd be surprised how many times what we see as straight in... isn't.

Joe,
Great product and thank you for the time you put into improving our game.
Click to expand...

Is the racking secrets DVD worth purchasing? I also have his aiming system DVDs and book. It's pretty complex. I've read most of the book, but haven't had time to watch the DVDs yet. I'm not sure if I'm disciplined enough for it or not.
 
Hal said:
Is the racking secrets DVD worth purchasing? I also have his aiming system DVDs and book. It's pretty complex. I've read most of the book, but haven't had time to watch the DVDs yet. I'm not sure if I'm disciplined enough for it or not.
Click to expand...
Hal,

The info is the same as in his original book by the same title except more in depth. To me it was much easier to understand w/ the visuals than in the book. Whether you have read the book and use the DVDs as a refresher or you have no knowledge of the rack info he offers, you will benefit. I had no problem w/ the price as a refresher as I also have the book. If you haven't read the book... I would say compare the cost to a one hour lesson w/ an instuctor. My opinion is you will acquire much more knowledge and have a ever lasting copy of the "lesson". You have to work at it and figure out your speed and break positions. But the info does work.

Just for the record... I meant no disrespect to any of the posting or nonposting instructors on the board w/ my comparison. It was strictly meant as a time reference. 1 hour for x amount -vs- almost 3 hours for x amount. Plus the advantage of a permanent copy as opposed to covering info and forgetting it.
 
GARY LLOYD said:
Hal,

The info is the same as in his original book by the same title except more in depth. To me it was much easier to understand w/ the visuals than in the book. Whether you have read the book and use the DVDs as a refresher or you have no knowledge of the rack info he offers, you will benefit. I had no problem w/ the price as a refresher as I also have the book. If you haven't read the book... I would say compare the cost to a one hour lesson w/ an instuctor. My opinion is you will acquire much more knowledge and have a ever lasting copy of the "lesson". You have to work at it and figure out your speed and break positions. But the info does work.

Just for the record... I meant no disrespect to any of the posting or nonposting instructors on the board w/ my comparison. It was strictly meant as a time reference. 1 hour for x amount -vs- almost 3 hours for x amount. Plus the advantage of a permanent copy as opposed to covering info and forgetting it.
Click to expand...
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was talking about the aiming system book. I've read that booklet that came with the DVD and I'm not sure I'm disciplined enough to try his aiming system.
I will definitely buy his racking secrets in the near future.
 
Hal said:
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was talking about the aiming system book. I've read that booklet that came with the DVD and I'm not sure I'm disciplined enough to try his aiming system.
I will definitely buy his racking secrets in the near future.
Click to expand...
Hal,

I was answering about the racking secrets dvd as it came in book form a few years ago. All my comments were directed toward that as I have no experience w/ the aiming system as of yet. But yes racking secrets dvd is definetly worth the money.
 
Last edited:
GARY LLOYD said:
Just for the record... I meant no disrespect to any of the posting or nonposting instructors on the board w/ my comparison. It was strictly meant as a time reference. 1 hour for x amount -vs- almost 3 hours for x amount. Plus the advantage of a permanent copy as opposed to covering info and forgetting it.
Click to expand...

Lessons are important, but I dont think there is an instructor out there that doesnt think there are some great values on the market in book/video form. I would say most of my general knowledge about pool has come from the many books and tapes that I own. And the majority of my refinements in execution have come from the instructors I have worked with.
 
I'm just a beginner, but I think a bad stroke will take you pretty far if you get used to it. If you want to go pro or something maybe it's worth changing


Johnny "V" said:
As you know I posted about creating a "thing" that straightens your stroke and I have been testing it. It does exactly what it is supposed to do but the problem is your brain is not used to shooting like this. It wants to correct that you are not shooting the same line that it thinks you should be. So you end up missing a lot of shots for your brain trying to over compensate. It is such an up hill battle sometimes I wonder if it is even worth it.
Click to expand...
 
Egg McDogit said:
I'm just a beginner, but I think a bad stroke will take you pretty far if you get used to it. If you want to go pro or something maybe it's worth changing
Click to expand...

You may be able to get pretty far with a bad stroke, but its going to take you alot longer to get where ever it is that your going.

You say that your a beginner, so here is a bit of advice. Learn to stroke straight and consistently first, then you will be able to learn everything else much easier and faster. If you are always hitting the cueball differently you can never be sure if you missed your shape or your shot because of poor planning or poor performance. If you know you pretty much always deliver the cue in a straight line and you miss a shot a couple of times to the same side then you will KNOW you need to adjust your aim on that shot. If you dont deliver the cue the same way then you dont know if it was your aim or your stroke.

JMHO.

Woody
 
To the question of changing your stroke, if it improves your game, I'd say it's worth it. Take a look at Allison Fisher. Her stroke has changed quite a bit since turning to 9-ball.

Fred
 
A Point to Consider Regarding Stroke Trainers
The most effective system I ever used was to attach a laser pointer to my cue and point it at a line 10 to 15 feet away, cueing back and forth trying to keep the laser on the line. (It will and should move up and down).

This quicky shows up some tendencies that I had never noticed using bottle shot type drills.

I gained higher accuracy with cueing straight, but what that allowed me to learn, was that it was my body movement that was the most significant factor in moving off line.

This became a very good way for me to train my body to be almost completely still over the shot. Something I'm sure most players are not.

With a stiller body, I was able to align with more accuracy than previously and my game rose to higher levels of accuracy as a result.
 
thanks for the advice, but my point is, I think people spend too much time worrying about their stroke. you can pocket balls fine with a bad stroke. My stroke is TERRIBLE...I guarantee you I have the worst stroke form of anyone on this board. It's almost 3 feet long, bridge ranges from 16-18", it's crooked as hell both horizontally and vertically, there's a little chicken wing in it, and I drop my elbow. It's hard to put in words how ugly it is - it's an ABOMINATION. But after playing seriously for a few years, I can pocket balls somewhat respectably...and in another 1-2 years I think my pocketing will be pretty strong.

If I can pocket balls with my stroke - I'm pretty sure any stroke can work given some time and practice. So if you've been playing for 10 years and want to change your stroke...my opinion is that it's not worth it. On the otherhand, you can only get so far with a bad stroke (which is pretty far)...if you're at the point where you're trying to get 1/4 ball here or there, then maybe it's something to look into.

It's going to take you a long time to get good with ANY kind of stroke.

woody_968 said:
You may be able to get pretty far with a bad stroke, but its going to take you alot longer to get where ever it is that your going.

You say that your a beginner, so here is a bit of advice. Learn to stroke straight and consistently first, then you will be able to learn everything else much easier and faster. If you are always hitting the cueball differently you can never be sure if you missed your shape or your shot because of poor planning or poor performance. If you know you pretty much always deliver the cue in a straight line and you miss a shot a couple of times to the same side then you will KNOW you need to adjust your aim on that shot. If you dont deliver the cue the same way then you dont know if it was your aim or your stroke.

JMHO.

Woody
Click to expand...
 
Neck and back pain..

If you are getting a lot of neck and back pain, it
is because your stance is not correct. Everthing
in the proper stance is straight lines, and you are
suppose to bend at the waist with a straight back,
not a humped back. People do not also stand properly
with their legs, straight butt hand leg with 60% of your
weight on it, front leg slightly bent with 40% of your
weight on it and with your foot turned 45 degrees forward.

A common problem evolves from players standing too
straight with the stick (like snooker players do), which
causes improper back alignment, and sometimes also
creates a stroke that has problems. Having a beer belly
won't help, and people unconsciously make adjustments
for their body that end up giving them neck and back pain.
It directly effects your stamina for shooting over long
periods of time.
 
another opinion

I have always considered it important to keep learning and with this game that means changing...I don't think very many people wake up one day and have the perfect stance/stroke, etc. and their needs don't change from there on. I have had to compensate for the loss of my visual accuity and a reduction in general energy...this meant change, big change. I have different priorities now and this meant change. The game of nine ball went from two shot foul to one shot foul...this meant change. Playing this game well is a journey for most of us, not an arrival...enjoy the trip, respond to new conditions and information...feel free to improve...sometimes this will mean playing a little under your "game" for a while...paying your dues.
I wonder about these guys with unusual strokes though...when everything is going well, the repeatability is there BUT when they get under pressure and things quit working...can they diagnose those strokes and get their arms and mojo back in line...can they recover? And if so...How quickly? It has been my experience the answer to this is a resounding "NO". I used to have an unusual stroke myself and upon coming to this conclusion, I changed my stroke/stance so I could always find home and quickly re-build from there...
Just my opinion, you be the judge.
Andy
 
Hal said:
Is the racking secrets DVD worth purchasing? I also have his aiming system DVDs and book. It's pretty complex. I've read most of the book, but haven't had time to watch the DVDs yet. I'm not sure if I'm disciplined enough for it or not.
Click to expand...
whats racking secrets?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top