Cheap sets, no one seems to want to play em

[JumpShotMagic]

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

 

[Flex]

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

For most guys, a cheap set probably starts out at $10 or $20, for some it may be $50.

If you want weight with most guys, they'll want you to play for more money.

Don't let them force you to do that though, especially if you don't know how well they play. Quick way to lose the dough.

Flex

 

[JoeyA]

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

----------------------------

I don't think you should gamble at this time.

It would be better for you to find someone just a little better than you who likes to practice and compete without money at stake. The smaller stakes you suggest are not a consideration for the gamblers or the non-gamblers. You have to find something else to use as stakes besides money; maybe just your best effort.

Seek them and you will find them.
JoeyA

 

[Snorks]

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

To me I look at it in the following manner. If it is a 'friend' of mine, we will generally play for beer. Heck if you race to 7 you probably play for an hour or so... max loss is $5/hour? That is cheap.

If I was to approach someone else and say "Hey, you want to play". If they ask for how much and I said $2... I would also get laughed at. They are not a close friend or anything so why would they spend 1 hour playing for $2? In this type of scenario, I would suspect $10-20 would be the minimum.

Personally I would suggest making a few good friends that are better then you and playing them for beer. It has really helped my game out.. I am lucky to have such great guys in my area.

 

[Samiel]

I think most people would consider $5 the minimum for a race to 4 or 5. For a race to 7 or 9, I think the minimum is probably $10 for many people.

 

[PoolSponge]

I'm no pro but when I was learning the game and developing at the early stages it cost me a lot of money to learn. There is no one in my area that gives lessons and so the only lessons to be learned were on the table for money. So now when someone wants to play a cheap set, and they aren't a close friend, I get a little upset. Essentially they want the lessons I had to pay for for free! I am not saying everyone should start playing for big money, but lets face facts, those of us who have been playing for more than 10 years have probably paid our dues and those coming up should pay theirs. Either open the wallet and find someone like Scott Lee to give you lessons or buck up at the table and pay the ticket to learn from a stronger player. I used to play a strong shortstop in our area $20 a set straight races. I never won. It was costing me a hundred or more a week. But what I learned made me stronger and better and I would easily make that money back against other players. Now I can break even or win against the same player.

In short, pay your dues one way or another or simply play with friends or practice. Don't expect a card carrying member of the money club to not want a return on their investment...in no time you will feel the same when a newbie wants it free.

JMHO

 

[Flex]

I'm no pro but when I was learning the game and developing at the early stages it cost me a lot of money to learn. There is no one in my area that gives lessons and so the only lessons to be learned were on the table for money. So now when someone wants to play a cheap set, and they aren't a close friend, I get a little upset. Essentially they want the lessons I had to pay for for free! I am not saying everyone should start playing for big money, but lets face facts, those of us who have been playing for more than 10 years have probably paid our dues and those coming up should pay theirs. Either open the wallet and find someone like Scott Lee to give you lessons or buck up at the table and pay the ticket to learn from a stronger player. I used to play a strong shortstop in our area $20 a set straight races. I never won. It was costing me a hundred or more a week. But what I learned made me stronger and better and I would easily make that money back against other players. Now I can break even or win against the same player.

In short, pay your dues one way or another or simply play with friends or practice. Don't expect a card carrying member of the money club to not want a return on their investment...in no time you will feel the same when a newbie wants it free.

JMHO

I suppose if you are looking at playing pool as a form of work for which you should be paid that your ideas make sense. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who gets a little upset if someone wants to play for little or nothing. In my opinion, it's attitude like yours that will turn off a lot of people. The idea that someone is actually going to learn by throwing their money away to someone who will definitely beat them is somewhat laughable to me. Most newbies haven't got a clue, so ponying up the cash as you did will not help them very much, unless they are really serious about improvement, in which case it may help them a bit. Just sitting nearby and watching how better players play will help anyone's game, if they will let it.

As for spending money on lessons, I've taken lessons from 5 or 6 guys so far, and the VERY best one I ever took lasted all of 10 minutes, and it didn't cost me a thing. It was offered by a top teaching pro after I'd played him 9 ball for probably 3 hours or so, for free. He helped me by changing my stroke. He gave me a simple drill, along with specific things in my stroke that I should change, and asked me the favor of giving his changes 7 to 10 days to kick in. He assured me my game would go up. He was oh so right. His name is Mark Wilson. Here's his website: http://playgreatpool.com/

My suggestion for someone who wants to play better players and improve, if he is unable to take some lessons, is first of all to go to the library, or bookstore and get these books: The 99 Critical Shots in Pool, Play Your Best 9-Ball, The 8-Ball Handbook for Winners, and The Advanced Pro Book. Also, be sure to get Bert Kinister's "60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball and 8 Ball" and his "Advanced Fundamentals" tapes.

Once someone has gone through these books and tapes, IMHO, and done their best working on those shots on Kinister's tapes, their abilities on the table will have progressed to the point that others will want to play them. In the meantime, they'll probably have made not a few friends in the pool hall who will notice how they're taking the game seriously, and friendships can easily form.

When someone is working on their game seriously, better players will often try to hustle them. At that point, they should especially watch out, as the better players will often offer them a spot, knowing they have no chance to win. And they'll try to hustle them with the false line that they need to play for money to get better. Baloney...

Playing for something is good, but avoiding getting out of one's comfort zone in terms of how much is being played for is just as important.

Making friends with the better players is very important. Hustlers aren't your friend, they just want your money, and may very well steer you the wrong way, on purpose.

My two cents.

Flex

 

[poolandpokerman]

You might be better off just asking to play for an hour or two and the loser pays the time, that sounds better to me instead of asking me to gamble for a dollar or two.

 

[Flex]

You might be better off just asking to play for an hour or two and the loser pays the time, that sounds better to me instead of asking me to gamble for a dollar or two.

The first time I went in to Chris's Billiards in Chicago, I had no idea what I was doing on the pool table, although I had a great time. My stick wasn't even decent, but who cares.

There was a fellow there who spotted me and came over and we played 9 ball for a few games, and then came the hustle. He offered to play me for the time, suggesting that we were more or less the same level of player. What a crock. He let me break, and after I sat down, he broke and ran so many times I got a little dizzy. I was simply amazed by this guy's game, man could he play. After a long time at the table, he left me a long, very tough cut shot, which I had no chance at potting. He came back to the table and proceeded to run out the rack. Then the next, and next and so on. At a certain point , I said enough, and pulled up. What he got out of that was probably two hours of free pool, and I didn't learn anything, except to watch out for guys like that. It wasn't very much fun. I later found out this guy has beaten champions, surprise, surprise. A true hustler, no doubt about it.

If I hadn't taken the whooping philosophically, I may have quit pool. But I learned from that guy: watch out for the hustlers.

Even playing pool for the time can be a waste, if the person isn't ready for it.

Flex

 

[PoolSponge]

Flex,

I'm not trying to start anything, but you said my method of paying to learn doesn't work, yet you recommend a few hundred dollars in books? My point, if anyone missed it, was this...if you want to gamble with a gambler put up some money, if you want to play for fun, play for fun with friends. Another easy way to pick up your game and get people to play with is join a pool league and get involved. I have had numerous students that have learned for free while playing on the same league team.

I am not recommending people walk in and throw money at the house pro and donate with no chance. Find someone better than you and make a deal that they are your practice partner. You play for reasonable money so it is worth their time to put out the effort of teaching and let nature take its course.

If you aren't serious about the game and do not want to improve why would you want to play the better players anyway? Does anyone find it fun playing a banger for free? Watching someone hammer balls around a table makes me cringe, playing them is rarely an option.

 

[tigerallenyim]

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

I can understand ur fustration, but I guess it all depends on what u want from the match. For me, it's more about excitement, not that I don't learn something, I just find it more exciting when money is involved. Most people who know me know I don't gamble, but have been approached many times even after that fact. I've only gamled once, and won. I will do it again when the time feels right.

And I would have to say 1/2 bucks per rack is not ideal. That's as much as a Coin-op.
And if u fear of losing... c'mon.... we all can't win all the time. No one invents winning.

 

[Flex]

Flex,

I'm not trying to start anything, but you said my method of paying to learn doesn't work,yet you recommend a few hundred dollars in books? My point, if anyone missed it, was this...if you want to gamble with a gambler put up some money, if you want to play for fun, play for fun with friends. Another easy way to pick up your game and get people to play with is join a pool league and get involved. I have had numerous students that have learned for free while playing on the same league team.

I am not recommending people walk in and throw money at the house pro and donate with no chance. Find someone better than you and make a deal that they are your practice partner. You play for reasonable money so it is worth their time to put out the effort of teaching and let nature take its course.

If you aren't serious about the game and do not want to improve why would you want to play the better players anyway? Does anyone find it fun playing a banger for free? Watching someone hammer balls around a table makes me cringe, playing them is rarely an option.

Thanks, Poolsponge, for a very reasonable post.

Your "method of paying to learn" may well work, depending on who wants to learn. Or it may not work, also. It really does depend on who is trying to learn, their motivation, and their speed. As for the book recommendations, many of those books can be obtained on interlibrary loan, the tapes too, although I preferred to buy them.

However, your very reasonable ideas about paying dues and so on are part of a pool subculture, that hail from the days when getting good instruction or information was quite difficult. Not the case today, though.

If you don't want to play with bangers, that's fine, and I respect that.

I also understand something of the drive that good teachers show when they see someone's eyes light up with exuberance upon learning something that will really help their game. It's not all about money...

Peace,

Flex

 

[Andrew Manning]

A true hustler, no doubt about it.

I don't know about that, "true hustlers" are out for profit, not for free practice. None of your money ended up in his pocket, I think this was just a guy who took advantage of your inexperience, and not really a "hustler".

I have to say to the original poster here, you don't want to play for cheap, you want to play for free. $2 over the course of almost an hour to play out your set is absolutely nothing. If the winner drank one beer during the set, and you split the table time, then the winner offset his pool hall expenses by only 10-20% by winning the set. That 10-20% doesn't make a difference to anybody. So when you said $2, what you really said was "for free".

Ironically, if you had phrased it that way ("you wanna play some for fun?"), you'd probably have more luck finding action. Playing for fun sounds more attractive to me than gambling for nothing. Just a thought.

-Andrew

 

[WilleeCue]

I know exactly what you mean.
I like to drink beer and play $2 pool.
Most of the serious players down here dont drink.
Most of them could beat me even if they were drunk.
They play for the cash and I often wonder if they really enjoy playing the game like they did when they first picked up a cue.

I guess I could take it seriously, practice a lot, not drink the beer, but then if I should get lucky and beat someone good they would want to double the bet or change the spot, move to a 9 foot table, or play all night and the game would become all about the money.
I have noticed that good players become like the old west gunfighters when they get better.
It seems to become all about who can bust who.
Not that I am knocking that ... hell, if I could play that good I guess I would be right in there among them.
I just miss my old playing buddies.
They have either quit playing pool to lead a more responsible life or have died of alcohol related problems.

 

[DeepBanks]

Great Advice!

I suppose if you are looking at playing pool as a form of work for which you should be paid that your ideas make sense. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who gets a little upset if someone wants to play for little or nothing. In my opinion, it's attitude like yours that will turn off a lot of people. The idea that someone is actually going to learn by throwing their money away to someone who will definitely beat them is somewhat laughable to me. Most newbies haven't got a clue, so ponying up the cash as you did will not help them very much, unless they are really serious about improvement, in which case it may help them a bit. Just sitting nearby and watching how better players play will help anyone's game, if they will let it.

As for spending money on lessons, I've taken lessons from 5 or 6 guys so far, and the VERY best one I ever took lasted all of 10 minutes, and it didn't cost me a thing. It was offered by a top teaching pro after I'd played him 9 ball for probably 3 hours or so, for free. He helped me by changing my stroke. He gave me a simple drill, along with specific things in my stroke that I should change, and asked me the favor of giving his changes 7 to 10 days to kick in. He assured me my game would go up. He was oh so right. His name is Mark Wilson. Here's his website: http://playgreatpool.com/

My suggestion for someone who wants to play better players and improve, if he is unable to take some lessons, is first of all to go to the library, or bookstore and get these books: The 99 Critical Shots in Pool, Play Your Best 9-Ball, The 8-Ball Handbook for Winners, and The Advanced Pro Book. Also, be sure to get Bert Kinister's "60 Minute Workout for 9 Ball and 8 Ball" and his "Advanced Fundamentals" tapes.

Once someone has gone through these books and tapes, IMHO, and done their best working on those shots on Kinister's tapes, their abilities on the table will have progressed to the point that others will want to play them. In the meantime, they'll probably have made not a few friends in the pool hall who will notice how they're taking the game seriously, and friendships can easily form.

When someone is working on their game seriously, better players will often try to hustle them. At that point, they should especially watch out, as the better players will often offer them a spot, knowing they have no chance to win. And they'll try to hustle them with the false line that they need to play for money to get better. Baloney...

Playing for something is good, but avoiding getting out of one's comfort zone in terms of how much is being played for is just as important.

Making friends with the better players is very important. Hustlers aren't your friend, they just want your money, and may very well steer you the wrong way, on purpose.

My two cents.

Flex

Ray Martin's 99 Critical Shots in Pool is a must have . . . Amazon has used copies (usually) for next to nothing . . .

 

[Flex]

I don't know about that, "true hustlers" are out for profit, not for free practice. None of your money ended up in his pocket, I think this was just a guy who took advantage of your inexperience, and not really a "hustler".

In the past few years, I've seen this guy around, and know his speed. Believe me, he is a hustler, even if he didn't lighten my pockets on that first occasion. If he could have, he would have, that is if I'd fallen for his hustle. He hustles all the time, tried to hustle me just the other night, offering me way too little weight. When I told him what I'd need to consider playing him, he went silent, didn't tell me it was unreasonable or anything like that. And he moved on to greener pastures.

Flex

 

[SphinxnihpS]

If you don't want to gamble, don't, but don't sit around and wonder why no one wants to play for two dollars. If you are not risking something that will hurt to lose, then you are not really gambling, and two dollars isn't going to hurt most anyone.

Gambling IS work, if you feel otherwise you will never win anyway.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

In the past few years, I've seen this guy around, and know his speed. Believe me, he is a hustler, even if he didn't lighten my pockets on that first occasion. If he could have, he would have, that is if I'd fallen for his hustle. He hustles all the time, tried to hustle me just the other night, offering me way too little weight. When I told him what I'd need to consider playing him, he went silent, didn't tell me it was unreasonable or anything like that. And he moved on to greener pastures.

Flex

Hustling is deceptive by definition. Not offering you what you consider enough "weight" is not hustling, it's making you an offer which you can take or pass on. Hustling is purposefully making you feel like you can win at a game in which you can absolutely not.

My suggestion is that if you need weight from anyone, do not play with them for money. Taking weight is the same thing as being resigned to defeat before you even hit a ball.

 

[Flex]

Hustling is deceptive by definition. Not offering you what you consider enough "weight" is not hustling, it's making you an offer which you can take or pass on. Hustling is purposefully making you feel like you can win at a game in which you can absolutely not.

My suggestion is that if you need weight from anyone, do not play with them for money. Taking weight is the same thing as being resigned to defeat before you even hit a ball.

That's exactly my point, he purposefully made me feel like I could win at a game in which I can absolutely not.

As for your suggestion about taking weight, oh, but are you mistaken on that one.

Flex

 

[crawfish]

Race to Twenty

I keep getting asking to gamble, and keep getting turned down when I suggest what I call cheap set of a Buck, or Two in a race to 7 or 9. with a little weight for me case I am not a great player.


I am getting frustrated. But I see zero reason to just give money away, as it comes too hard from my sweat.

If you are ever in Raleigh, I will play you a race to twenty, alternating breaks, Texas Express, no three foul rule in effect, for the sum of $1 dollar. You've got action, my man. It is very frustrating getting action cheap enough to play, I agree. Wait until you hit the balls pretty well and the only action you get are people that play for a living. Or, you have to give up the last three and the break. Best of Luck. By the way, I have lost thousands at $2 a game. Paid my dues, so to speak. But the money found it's way home times over.