Checklist for 9ball break.
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
The best thing to be able to do in 9-ball is to have time to test out the table... so you can figure out where to place the cueball (where to break from) and what speed is needed to pocket a ball consistently... usually either the corner ball or the one ball.
Also back off on speed (but still follow through) and try to control the cueball, getting it to stop somewhere between the side pockets.
Also back off on speed (but still follow through) and try to control the cueball, getting it to stop somewhere between the side pockets.
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aRE YOU (WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CAPS LOCK FOR ANYWAY?!)
Are you joking? Lets see:
-balls racked, on table and well,
-CB on table and behind headstring, in position where you can comfortably bridge,
- aim 100% full-face collision between CB and 1B
- close eyes and swing away.
Are you joking? Lets see:
-balls racked, on table and well,
-CB on table and behind headstring, in position where you can comfortably bridge,
- aim 100% full-face collision between CB and 1B
- close eyes and swing away.
PoolSleuth
Banned
BillYards said:
Above advice is good, pocket a ball or BALLS, and have the Cue Ball stop somewhere between the side pockets.
Squat your rock in the middle of the table.
Aim the one ball at the first diamond to make it in the side. If it goes nowhere near the side then you have a loose rack. A tip of bottom left will help to make the 1.
If the rack is tilted a little bit break from the side the one ball is closest to.
Grip your cue farther back. Follow through all the way to the rack.
Watch the corner ball on the side closest to you. If it is hitting below the corner pocket break softer. If it is hitting above the corner pocket break harder. If it's not close you have a loose rack. You should be able to make this ball every time if you have the same rack every time.
Aim the one ball at the first diamond to make it in the side. If it goes nowhere near the side then you have a loose rack. A tip of bottom left will help to make the 1.
If the rack is tilted a little bit break from the side the one ball is closest to.
Grip your cue farther back. Follow through all the way to the rack.
Watch the corner ball on the side closest to you. If it is hitting below the corner pocket break softer. If it is hitting above the corner pocket break harder. If it's not close you have a loose rack. You should be able to make this ball every time if you have the same rack every time.
Black-balled:
Are you crazy??? Why are you giving away the trade secrets of the pros??? Closing my eyes is the last advantage I have over the other players... if they read this post I will be in big trouble!!
(At least you didn't tell him to cross himself first... we've still got that secret! Hee hee!)
Are you crazy??? Why are you giving away the trade secrets of the pros??? Closing my eyes is the last advantage I have over the other players... if they read this post I will be in big trouble!!
(At least you didn't tell him to cross himself first... we've still got that secret! Hee hee!)
9 ball breaks
Remember nobody or any device of the week can teach you or tell you how to make a ball on the break 100% of the time (if someone can, we need to talk!!!). What you will be looking for is full contact of cueball and head ball,and some kind of position that is repeatable. I know their will be alot that will say you have to do this or that, my advise would be to buy a Break Rak from Charlie Bond, and practice to see what works for you. And no im not getting paid for the plug, just very happy and impressed with the results of his product.
Remember nobody or any device of the week can teach you or tell you how to make a ball on the break 100% of the time (if someone can, we need to talk!!!). What you will be looking for is full contact of cueball and head ball,and some kind of position that is repeatable. I know their will be alot that will say you have to do this or that, my advise would be to buy a Break Rak from Charlie Bond, and practice to see what works for you. And no im not getting paid for the plug, just very happy and impressed with the results of his product.
mnorwood said:
I've actually spent a great deal of time the last few months working on my break and I cannot tell you how much I've learned from it all.
For starters, the biggest misconception players have is that you need to break as hard as you can. That's just plain wrong and a recipe for disaster. A player in my homeroom makes it a point to break as hard as he can each and every time. Although occasionally, he does make a ridiculous number of balls on the break, his cue-ball is everywhere. In fact, I think he scratches on the break about half the time. I said to him once, "If a professional offered you ball-in-hand after each of his breaks, would you take the game?" He said, "absolutely!". I replied, "What do you think you're giving everyone?" The point is to break firm but don't try and murder the ball. Keep things in control and you're on the right path.
Secondly, park the rock. Now that you've reduced your speed, you'll be surprised by how easy this is to do. The huge advantage is that the result is replicable. If you make a dead-ball, you're likely to make it again on your next break. If your cue-ball is deflecting left or right, it's difficult to reproduce the result if it's positive simply because you don't know where the cue-ball is going to land.
Thirdly, be open to where you break from. I used to break as far right as I was allowed until I started breaking just right of center. I was REALLY surprised by how many nines I was making on the break and my ability to control whitey. If you're popping balls from center table, break from center table. Switch to the sides if the center is deemed fruitless and watch where your opponent is breaking from. If he's having trouble from the right, break from the left. If he's having success from the center, break from center.
The bottom line is, you want a nice pop. You want to hit the rack and have whitey just stop in the middle of the table. Keep your speed manageable and you should have no trouble adjusting to where you break from. Like any other shot in pool, things change when you try and go all-out so don't go all-out.
pillage6 said:
I've used Joe T's book for a while. The most improtant tidbit I came away with is that there are ways of reading the rack which will tell you where to break from to give yourself a good chance of making a certain ball. Also, if you can hit the 1 ball accurately, with speed, this will take you far. I know there are some that say that you just need a firm (15 to 17 MPH) stroke with an accurate hit to "break well", I disagree with that. With some tables/conditions you have to be able to nail the rack (23-25 MPH break speed).
Eric
The correct equipment can also help as well as a useful training aid....www.breakrak.com will help anyone who needs to practise the break....
They also do a very good book all on breaking
They also do a very good book all on breaking
vrob said:
Thanks for the kind words VROB
The first shot in any game is called the Break Shot. The break shot is not just the way to start the game. The first shot is a bonafide shot & yes you can make a ball & obtain position or you can play a safety. That is the intent.
For some players, breaking up the rack, making a ball & having position on the next ball is the norm & for some players it's not. The break shot for the unskilled or unlucky player is the beginning of misery & a poor way to start any game of competition.
Now, I ask each & everyone of you, "do you practice the break shot"? The break shot is admittedly the most complex & it is said the break shot is very important. Did you say NO... congratulations, you are part of the large majority.
Eric. said:
Ok, just on quick note, most people can't break that hard. In fact, out of all the people I know on this board (pros included), I'd say over 90% can't break that hard or don't. 23-25 mph is a real feat.
Now, lets address this seriously and thoughtfully. What are the possible outcomes from a break? How can we break them down? I'll start here and everyone can let me know what they think:
1. A ball is pocketed on the break and shooter has position.
2. A ball is not pocketed on the break and shooter has position.
3. A ball is pocketed on the break and shooter does not have position.
4. A ball is not pocketed on the break and shooter does not have position.
5. Scratch on the break
6. Nine-ball is pocketed on the break.
Now, 1 and 6 are ideal but for reality's sake, we'll forget to discuss 6 since nobody has proven a reliable way to replicate making the nine on the break without certain rack characteristics. With that said, what is your worst fear? Is it #2? It must be if you choose to break as hard as you can. If you think making a ball is absolutely paramount to winning, #2 would be your primary fear. However, your experience from making a ball on the break and parking whitey should tell you that position on the 1-ball isn't necessarily a given. In fact, there will be plenty of times when you won't have position and you'll have to push-out.
Now, what's interesting about a push-out between two evenly ranked players is that it creates a coin-toss situation. If you're better than your opponent, then the situation obviously favors you since you can push to a spot where a weaker player would feel uncomfortable yet you know what to do. Regardless, I can count on one hand the number of times I was at a complete disadvantage while pushing.
With that said, my greatest fear is #5 and I'll tell you why. Against a C-level player (I'm an A), a scratch on the break will mean there's a 50% chance I'll lose the game. Against an A-level player, there's a 90% chance and against a pro, I should just concede. Scratching on the break is a huge swing in momentum and far more likely to happen if you're breaking hard then the chances of breaking medium, not making a ball on the break and having your opponent run-out (or win the game w/o losing control).
Simply put, you cannot look at balls-on-the-break as the determinate on your approach to breaking, at least as far as speed is concerned. You must weigh the good with the bad. The mega-break is pool's Hail-Mary. Although you can make 9-ball very easy breaking that way, you can also make it terribly easy for your opponent. Even against a top-rank player, failure to make a ball on the break means the table has 9 balls to deal with. There could be clusters and difficult position plays. There's a reasonable chance a mistake could be made. Give that player ball-in-hand at the start and you're in for a world of hurt. You're better off switching to different break-positions then an automatic increase in speed.
Furthermore, you should really tinker with medium speed. The results from hitting the rack full will make others believe you're breaking hard even when you're not. I do admit, there are times when I'll crank it up a notch but even then, it's far more controlled then what I'm capable of.
Jude Rosenstock said:Ok, just on quick note, most people can't break that hard. In fact, out of all the people I know on this board (pros included), I'd say over 90% can't break that hard or don't. 23-25 mph is a real feat.
Actually, I think alot of good players break in the low 20's WITH control. I'm no top player, but I can break all day long clocking 23 MPH, without the CB flying around the table. Watch some Accu-Stat vids, you'll find alot of top players breaking around this speed. FWIW, I clocked 30.2 at Valley Forge a few years back and won a Sardo Rack (the runner up got 2 Sardo Racks). Now, I have no control over the CB at that speed nor do I try to hit it that hard ever.
Now, lets address this seriously and thoughtfully. What are the possible outcomes from a break? How can we break them down? I'll start here and everyone can let me know what they think:
1. A ball is pocketed on the break and shooter has position.
2. A ball is not pocketed on the break and shooter has position.
3. A ball is pocketed on the break and shooter does not have position.
4. A ball is not pocketed on the break and shooter does not have position.
5. Scratch on the break
6. Nine-ball is pocketed on the break.
Now, 1 and 6 are ideal but for reality's sake, we'll forget to discuss 6 since nobody has proven a reliable way to replicate making the nine on the break without certain rack characteristics. With that said, what is your worst fear? Is it #2? It must be if you choose to break as hard as you can. If you think making a ball is absolutely paramount to winning, #2 would be your primary fear. However, your experience from making a ball on the break and parking whitey should tell you that position on the 1-ball isn't necessarily a given. In fact, there will be plenty of times when you won't have position and you'll have to push-out.
My biggest fear is your # 5. BTW, where the 1 ball ends up after the break is predictable. If you hit the rack hard (I never said as hard as you can), you can drive the 1 ball past the side pocket, around the rails, to end near the corner pocket you broke from. The problem with doing that is that if you don't make a ball on the break, the opponent starts off with a decent shot. A good example of this break is Charlie Williams. Watch him break. He hits from the side rail, using a spin/flat ball break and drives the 1 ball 3 rails to end up near the corner pocket.
Now, what's interesting about a push-out between two evenly ranked players is that it creates a coin-toss situation. If you're better than your opponent, then the situation obviously favors you since you can push to a spot where a weaker player would feel uncomfortable yet you know what to do. Regardless, I can count on one hand the number of times I was at a complete disadvantage while pushing.
I like to push to a jump shot.
With that said, my greatest fear is #5 and I'll tell you why. Against a C-level player (I'm an A), a scratch on the break will mean there's a 50% chance I'll lose the game. Against an A-level player, there's a 90% chance and against a pro, I should just concede. Scratching on the break is a huge swing in momentum and far more likely to happen if you're breaking hard then the chances of breaking medium, not making a ball on the break and having your opponent run-out (or win the game w/o losing control).
Simply put, you cannot look at balls-on-the-break as the determinate on your approach to breaking, at least as far as speed is concerned. You must weigh the good with the bad. The mega-break is pool's Hail-Mary. Although you can make 9-ball very easy breaking that way, you can also make it terribly easy for your opponent. Even against a top-rank player, failure to make a ball on the break means the table has 9 balls to deal with. There could be clusters and difficult position plays. There's a reasonable chance a mistake could be made. Give that player ball-in-hand at the start and you're in for a world of hurt. You're better off switching to different break-positions then an automatic increase in speed.
Furthermore, you should really tinker with medium speed. The results from hitting the rack full will make others believe you're breaking hard even when you're not. I do admit, there are times when I'll crank it up a notch but even then, it's far more controlled then what I'm capable of.
I think we somewhat agree, Jude. One thing I was referring to is that there are some that feel that all you need in a break is to hit the rack dead straight on the 1 ball and that you never have to hit it harder than about 15-17 MPH. I feel that those people are leaving them selves short on their break aresenal. I think to have a good arsenal of breaks, you (and me) need to be able to break hard, with control, when the need arises. If the table isn't giving up balls easily, the hard controlled break can be the difference.
Eric >one man's opinion...
Eric. said:
In reference to your push-to-a-jump strategy, I seriously recommend getting away from that. I know there are people who openly employ this strategy, having a lot of confidence in their ability to jump but this is an unnecessary risk.
For starters, you're assuming your opponent cannot jump or is hesitant to jump. Secondly, if the shot is passed back to you, you're assuming you can not only make the ball but get position which is the real trick behind jumping. The risks are obvious and a knowledgeable opponent is going to weigh that out before passing it back to you.
My secret-weapon preference when pushing is to leave a simple kick-safe. I only do this when pushing to open ground leaves an obvious safety and I KNOW I can nail a luke-warm safe with the possibility of alcatraz if executed well.
The key is to get away from the idea of maintaining control of the table. That's simply contradictory to what a push is. Ideally, you want to create a coin-toss whether they take the push or not. At least with a kick-safe, even top professionals will make a mistake sometimes.
I was once playing a female pro in a league match. In an important game, she made a ball on the break and tried to push to a jump shot. Unfortunately, she failed to hide the cue-ball and left me a simple safety which cost her the set. She fouled and I ran out. Had she hid the ball too well, I would have passed it right back to her and had it been hidden just enough (like she had hoped), I probably would have nailed that one, too. The proper play would have been to tie-up balls while leaving me nothing. Set-up the coin-flip.
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Not being much of a 9-baller, I had an experience last February that impressed me...
I sometimes practice 9-ball to get my shot-making going. I was hitting the break at about medium-hard (for me) speed (less than 20 mph, I'd guess), one diamond left of center on the head string. For about one month, I was making one out of three nine balls on the break (!!!). It was amazing how often the 9-ball went into the opposite corner...1 out of 3! Btw, I was using a Valley Supreme house cue, 20 oz.
I think it worked so well for me because I was hitting just a little less than full speed and was consistently hitting the 1-ball with full force. The cueball just stopped after the hit.
It's gone now, but boy, was that fun while it lasted!
Jeff Livingston
I sometimes practice 9-ball to get my shot-making going. I was hitting the break at about medium-hard (for me) speed (less than 20 mph, I'd guess), one diamond left of center on the head string. For about one month, I was making one out of three nine balls on the break (!!!). It was amazing how often the 9-ball went into the opposite corner...1 out of 3! Btw, I was using a Valley Supreme house cue, 20 oz.
I think it worked so well for me because I was hitting just a little less than full speed and was consistently hitting the 1-ball with full force. The cueball just stopped after the hit.
It's gone now, but boy, was that fun while it lasted!
Jeff Livingston
Jude Rosenstock said:
Sounds like are are saying the same thing regarding push out strategy. I prefer to push to a jump kick situation where the jump is easy but the safety is a 50/50. A good example is where the 1 ball's path to the corner pocket is blocked by another ball. If possible, I would push, hitting another ball (say, into the 7 to block the 4 from going) or push the CB behind the 7 where the jump is easy for most but the 1 ball wouldn't go if you hit it dead on (spot A):
START(
%AS2G6%B`9P9%C`9X3%Df2D8%EN6F6%FZ6O7%Gi0G1%HG2S4%IL7O4%Pc2K6
%Qo9F3%Wm7H0%Xd1K6
)END
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html
From this spot, it creates an interesting situation; the only problem ball is the 1. If you jump and leave a shot, you're done. If you hit it good and get a roll, you might get safe and put your opponent in a situation where he's the underdog. I feel that you are a slight underdog any time you push. I like to push toa spot where the shooter needs a roll to become the favorite.
Eric >commuting to Jersey, will check in tomorrow
Eric. said:
Ok, this situation is obvious. Now, you can see the 1-ball so why push? A simple and effective safety is to cut the 1-ball toward the rail. Not only will you likely leave it safe behind the 5-ball but even if he can see it, where can he make it?
Now, let's assume that you just didn't bother to hide the cue-ball when you created this diagram. Then, you just leave that combo for your opponent and leave it long. Put the cue-ball on the head-rail and you'll minimize his options. If it's passed back to you, once again, you play the safety I just mentioned. From that distance, the safety probably won't be as good so you're in for a battle but a battle is really what you want. If you're lucky, he'll take an aggressive stab at that combo. If you're not, you may need to get tricky on him to regain control but it's well within reach.
You DO NOT set up that jump shot. That's just suicide. Getting over that 7-ball is going to require a jump-cue and a hard hit. There's no real offensive solution and defense is all but out of the question. Basically you just safed yourself.
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9 ball has a very good setup for breaking, I can call a ball on the break and make it 4 out of 5 times if the rack is in the right spot. You don't have to hit it hard but hit with 'stun english' to stop the cue ball and the ball to the right(or left, depending on what side of the table I'm breaking from) goes in the corner pocket. If you miss by about 5mm and hit it hard the 9 will go towards the pocket. Most of you probably won't believe me but if you're ever in tampa I'd be happy to play you and you will be shocked.
third_i said:
4 out of 5 is a bit much. The professional average is around 33% but I do know what you mean. Hit the rack square and there's a good chance the corner ball will fly into the corner pocket. If it goes the first time, there's a reasonable chance you can replicate the outcome by having an identical approach. It's what's referred to as a "friendly" table.