Chess clocks solve everything...I think

bad_hit

bad_hit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a chess clock -

dgt-north-america-2.jpg


You set each side to half the allotted time of the match.

When your turn at the table is over you hit your side to stop your clock and start your opponents.

Take as long as you want on a particular shot, it's up to you to budget your allotted match time. If someone runs out of time, you lose the match.

Seems to me like these solve all tournament scheduling problems, and they're about 20 bucks, price of a cue ball.

Why aren't they used in pool touraments?
 
I've liked the idea of using a chess clock for a while now -for each rack. Out of time, lose that rack. This may even keep people awake during one pocket matches. Who knows, maybe even the spectators would stay conscious.
 
bad_hit said:
This is a chess clock -

dgt-north-america-2.jpg


You set each side to half the allotted time of the match.

When your turn at the table is over you hit your side to stop your clock and start your opponents.

Take as long as you want on a particular shot, it's up to you to budget your allotted match time. If someone runs out of time, you lose the match.

Seems to me like these solve all tournament scheduling problems, and they're about 20 bucks, price of a cue ball.

Why aren't they used in pool touraments?
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I have been saying this for years. OP get ready for an onslaught of haters/slow players blowing up this thread.
 
But slow play shouldn't matter. You just have to make up time on a couple hangers and it all averages out. It's not a shot clock, take as long as you want on a harder shot as long as you make it up somewhere else.
 
bad_hit said:
But slow play shouldn't matter. You just have to make up time on a couple hangers and it all averages out. It's not a shot clock, take as long as you want on a harder shot as long as you make it up somewhere else.
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I know some tournaments are so tired of slow play that after a certain amount of time they just give the win to whomevers leading...kind of the same thing as having a clock, but a clock keeping track of each players time at the table is way better.
 
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Hobo said:
oh I see what you're saying. Well basically you get a certain amount of time to play the match. I know some tournaments are so tired of slow play that after a certain amount of time they just give the win to whomevers leading...kind of the same thing as having a clock.
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It is, but it's on the player not the tournament director. If you can't play within the allotted time, you lose. Simple as that. It's not that hard to do, just takes a little bit of time management. I bet in 90% of the matches the clock isn't even a factor because there's plenty of time. It's for those 10% that run way over, this would solve that.
 
I used one for one match. My opponent went nuts. He would forget to press the button half the time after his turn. Half the time I'd remind him, and half the time I would just sit in my chair until he pressed it. We were just playing for fun or maybe table time, and he quit in the middle of the set he hated it so much.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I used one for one match. My opponent went nuts. He would forget to press the button half the time after his turn. Half the time I'd remind him, and half the time I would just sit in my chair until he pressed it. We were just playing for fun or maybe table time, and he quit in the middle of the set he hated it so much.
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He sounds like a moron. I guess if you're a moron, nothing really works.
 
I suppose another problem, is if both players are slow. Lets say one player has 10 seconds left, and the other has 20 seconds left, and they are tied 3-3 on a race to 5. They would both definitely run out of time if the match is allowed to finish. But only one will lose because of the time violation. That just seems a bit unfair to me, if both are dog slow. I don't know the solution to this.
 
Bob Jewett has been recommending these too. I understand that there are shots that take more time than others and this would allow them to even out. But there are some games that take longer than others, by no fault of the players. And if people are running low on time, are they going to rush around playing speed pool? That sounds like a circus.

To me, a 30-sec. shot clock with one extension per game seems to address it pretty well. There are phone apps that do it perfectly.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I suppose another problem, is if both players are slow. Lets say one player has 10 seconds left, and the other has 20 seconds left, and they are tied 3-3 on a race to 5. They would both definitely run out of time if the match is allowed to finish. But only one will lose because of the time violation. That just seems a bit unfair to me, if both are dog slow. I don't know the solution to this.
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Kick them both out...just going to slow everything down anyway. Good riddance.
 
BRussell said:
Bob Jewett has been recommending these too. I understand that there are shots that take more time than others and this would allow them to even out. But there are some games that take longer than others, by no fault of the players. And if people are running low on time, are they going to rush around playing speed pool? That sounds like a circus.

To me, a 30-sec. shot clock with one extension per game seems to address it pretty well. There are phone apps that do it perfectly.
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So that means that one, and exactly one shot takes more careful planning per game? This gets rid of per-shot. Take as long as you want just understand you have to play fast enough to not lose.

Also, shot clocks aren't usually used for 8 ball (you could take several minutes on the first shot planning the pattern), but these could be used.
 
bad_hit said:
So that means that one, and exactly one shot takes more careful planning per game? This gets rid of per-shot. Take as long as you want just understand you have to play fast enough to not lose.

Also, shot clocks aren't usually used for 8 ball (you could take several minutes on the first shot planning the pattern), but these could be used.
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8 ball and straight pool are different. These take more time to figure out the patterns.
 
bad_hit said:
Exactly my point. Shot clocks don't work for those games but chess clocks do.
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oh I know......better than the way they do it now where they give you 1 minute to analyze the table and 30 seconds per shot...maybe I want to take 3 minutes to analyze the table and 5 seconds per shot.
 
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Where I'd really like to see shot clocks used is for racking the balls. Give it 15 seconds and that's it. Nothing ruins pool on TV or PPV streaming more than having to watch players rack and re-rack for minutes on end. Half the time they take longer to rack than they do to run the rack afterwards.

Or better yet: Make Magic Racks mandatory for all tournaments, with no fiddling and diddling once the balls are in the grooves. Pool matches shouldn't be decided because one player is willing to take 5 minutes to create the perfect rack before the game even begins. Racking should NOT be a "skill". If some of these guys were baseball players, they'd be spending 3 minutes adjusting their batting gloves before each pitch.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I used one for one match. My opponent went nuts. He would forget to press the button half the time after his turn. Half the time I'd remind him, and half the time I would just sit in my chair until he pressed it. We were just playing for fun or maybe table time, and he quit in the middle of the set he hated it so much.
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As far as I am concerned this would be the biggest problem.
Too many players cannot even remember to get their balls on tables with returns.
This would max them out.
I am all for it actually, it does take a bit to get used to hitting the clock , but after a few time losses where they are winning, they would catch on .
 
My previous posts and an article in Billiards Digest have gone over this extensively. Anyone who is interested in the subject may want to look those up.

It works. People get used to it. They are nervous and forgetful the first several games.

Five hours for a game to 150 at straight pool? Three hours for a race to nine at DCC nine ball? People like that should not be allowed to destroy tournaments for others.

Match up singles any way you want, but in group competition keep it moving.
 
Well, FargoRate has given us ELO ratings that Chess has had for a very long time. Not a new idea at all, but glad Mike is implementing it, rather than talking about it as some have for a long time. I think is great. Although the name sucks. It must be a Fargo thing that everything has to be Fargo this and that.

Anyway, in the same way this is bringing value to the game ---

Why not a chess clock? Another great idea many have proposed and a great solution. Glad to see it brought up again. Here's my thoughts on it...


No clock of any kind in games such as 14.1 and One-Pocket. People watching these are hard core pool fans, and are on average more sophisticated in their knowledge of pool and don't mind or care about the slower play. Secondly, these games do require a lot more time between shots and quite often - its warranted there. Thirdly, I speak for myself, but I'm sure many would agree -- I'd rather wait longer and see a brilliant play whether it is a masterful safe, a killer bank or kick or a creative pattern be found, than the player be rushed to shoot an inferior shot that wasn't the absolute best choice. A clock doesn't belong in these games, they aren't TV games or for the casual billiards fan. Timed 14.1 or 1hole doesn't fit stylistically or in nature.

On the other hand....

Clock should be in play for 9-ball without question....10-ball also. 8-Ball too, but with a little bit more time allowed than 9 or 10 ball, as is the nature of 8-ball to get a little complicated at times.

I can hear Earl saying it now "just shoot" ...and then going on a rant. Sure, not everyone is a pool playing machine like him, but seriously - the amount of staring at a table and angles by so many pros is freakin ridiculous. On routine shots too!

The worst culprits are the Euros. They are absurdly SLOW and over analytical. It is atrocious to watch. Ultra boring. Especially when you mix that with their extremely conservative styles of play. I think these guys just like to freeze the opponent in the chair. That's their universal tactic, because they cannot be that stupid to have to play that slow. I've watched them in person over the years, and on streams. In recent years I've stopped watching them at all, because they insult the game.

You'd think that this slow play is resulting in some kind of on table genius or perfection? No. Just run of the mill standard kind of patterns, positions and outs. Stuff you see in your local room. How a world class player can stare and analyze a single positional shot in 9-ball for 5-6 minutes, which is completely simple and whom 99% of B players and above can sink and get shape on with regularity is something I cannot accept. We're talking shots that have no special circumstances, or no unusual consequences. Nothing special about them or the situation. Cut and dry stuff. No one wants to watch that crap - not in a game like 9 ball. Another one of a hundred reasons pool is going downhill.

Shot clocks are a terrible solution to the above (although much better than nothing). Because it fixes the time per shot rather than per game, or per match. This leads to garbage pool. Just watch any shot-clock pool and you will see in most matches a situation where the player is rushed, even with an extension, in a tricky situation to make a less than ideal shot. You don't get to see their best effort, and this takes away from the greatness of the game.

Clocks per rack or match is a much better idea. The easy, routine shots will be quick, which will then provide a greater balance of time for the tougher shots. The game is not compromised, while total match time becomes reasonable and palatable for the fans.

So destructive to have tournament matches run so late into the night. In most sports, finals are the most watched and scheduled at peak times...in pool, people go home because they aren't interested in watching slow pokes drag ass over basic shots at 1am on a Sunday night....
 
iusedtoberich said:
I suppose another problem, is if both players are slow. Lets say one player has 10 seconds left, and the other has 20 seconds left, and they are tied 3-3 on a race to 5. They would both definitely run out of time if the match is allowed to finish. But only one will lose because of the time violation. That just seems a bit unfair to me, if both are dog slow. I don't know the solution to this.
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Tell them to find a new hobby.
 
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