CIT and Cue Ball Deflection - Gearing English

[ENGLISH!]

Well I will say that I did learn about parallel English from this forum. I keep an eye on good players. I see a shot that I am not sure I could do and I give it a try. Like severe inside English shots. I would try and try and could never do what I saw. Until I learned about different ways to play English. Tried parallel and wham the cue ball did what I wanted.
Ever ask someone how they played a shot. "Oh I used high right". So you try high right with negative results. So I guess what you don't know can keep you from getting better. Doubt you can know to much. Unless It makes you over think everything.

There is wisdom somewhere in those words but I'd take out the word 'know' & perhaps change it to 'feel'. Because when you 'feel' it you don't 'over think' it.

The thing is when someone simply says 'high right' there is much left out as to HOW they used high right. Mostly at what speed high right & did they use it to throw the ball in or just to change the angle coming off a rail.

All you need to do is play around with it at different speeds. I'd suggest you set up a straight shot lined up 1/2 to 1 full ball outside of a corner pocket & hit it 'straight' with outside english high & low & pay attention to the different amounts of throw & where the ball goes into the pocket, full hit, center cut, or over cut. I'd also suggest a soft tip for more spin to less speed.

Good Luck staying with it & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Well this post was exactly what I hoped it would turn out to be. It turned out to be an intelligent discussion about English. I have to say that by think so much, my game now sucks. I was playing great and wanted to improve. I have never done BHE or FHE. I always used parrallel and it worked.

I started trying things from the Perfect Aim DVD and that really screwed my game up, then I tried stuff from HAPS and VEPs DVD and that made it worse. So here is my scientific evaluation after trying to improve my game...


I break hard on the initial start and see how many balls I can run for 10 sessions (14:1 style after break).

Before I started trying to improve my game my average of the 10 sessions was 19 balls.

After watching Perfect Aim and trying the domninant eye thing, my average of the 10 sessions droped to11 balls.

After forgetting about the Perfect Aim and practicing using VEPS and HAPS technigues (mostly trying to use BHE and FHE for left and right and trying to use gearing english for close simple cuts) My average for 10 sessions is now 9 balls.

Now how do I get all of this DVD stuff out of my brain so I can go back to where I was?

Like most problems you'll just have to play your way through it or in this case out of it.

I've used mostly 'parallel' for 45+ yrs.

But, during that time I have also used BHE, FHE, & a combo of both at the same time. To be honest, I could not really you tell why I used any specific one of them at any given time other than that it just looked or felt right.

Since learning CJ's way of TOI, I have used a pivot to outside english that I have found works rather well. What CJ does is starts out with the cue aligned with the TOI & then pivots back to center or past center.. I can't say that it works for me 100% but it works a high percentage of the time.

The thing is to not over do it & only go a touch outside. I think when it has failed for me is when I went too far to where I might normally go for 'parallel'.

You might want to give it a try. Parallel shift just a touch inside & then pivot back to just a touch outside.

Good Luck with your subconscious 'feel' game back & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS the Center cue ball is aligned to either the center of the OB or the edge of the OB depending on the severity of the cut angle. I've incorporated the 1/2 way point between center & edge of the OB.

 

[dr_dave]

Parallel english works for all shots indeed and it usually takes a couple of years learning to use it well. But it has it's advantages: You can go straight down onto the shot line. There is no twisting/turning of the shooting hand. Your stroke is essentially the same for all shots and your preshot routine will be identical as well. IMHO it's easier to judge the exact amount of english you put on the ball too. With super low deflecting shafts I feel parellel english it is easier to use with the long finesse shots which will be more or less exactly compensated, which are the exact shots that demands the most compensation with backhand english. For smashing the ball at warp speed less than a half table away with extreme english, it is probably easier to learn how to do it with backhand english, but after a while of using parallel english you will conquer these shots as well, besides you really shouldn't be shooting many shots like that anyway.

I think people might be using different definitions of "parallel english" in this thread. Here is the definition in my online glossary, which I think is the most common and standard use of the phrase:

parallel english: aiming technique when using sidespin where the cue is placed parallel to the line of aim for a center-ball hit (with no sidespin) resulting in no compensation for CB deflection (e.g., for shots where swerve is expected to cancel the effects of squirt and throw, resulting in no net CB deflection, or where the amount of resulting pocket cheat is acceptable).

I think some people are instead interpreting "parallel english" to mean:

Based on experience, instinct, and/or intuition, place the cue in the desired stroking direction, with the tip already at the position needed to created the amount of sidespin desired, and with the cue already pointing in the direction necessary to compensate for squirt, swerve, and throw. In other words, don't line up center-ball first and then use a pivoting method (like BHE, FHE, or some combination) or a swooping stroke to arrive at the necessary line of aim to use the amount of sidespin desired. This is how pretty much all pros and great players aim when using english; although, this should not be called "parallel english" unless the shot

Regardless of how you determine the necessary stroking line of the cue when applying english, even if completely intuitively, the cue must be pointed in a certain direction for given shot to send the OB into the center of the pocket. For example, with a short distance between the CB and OB and/or with a firm shot, BHE (with an appropriate bridge length) will give you a good line of aim. If you use true parallel english with a shot like this instead, it will be way off (especially for larger amounts of sidespin). However, if you aim intuitively and bring the cue into the necessary line of aim with no pivot, that is fine, but if you don't have the cue in the same direction created by the BHE approach, you won't pocket the shot (unless the pocket can be cheated significantly).

Regards,
Dave

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think people might be using different definitions of "parallel english" in this thread. Here is the definition in my online glossary, which I think is the most common and standard use of the phrase:

parallel english: aiming technique when using sidespin where the cue is placed parallel to the line of aim for a center-ball hit (with no sidespin) resulting in no compensation for CB deflection (e.g., for shots where swerve is expected to cancel the effects of squirt and throw, resulting in no net CB deflection, or where the amount of resulting pocket cheat is acceptable).

I think some people are instead interpreting "parallel english" to mean:

Based on experience, instinct, and/or intuition, place the cue in the desired stroking direction, with the tip already at the position needed to created the amount of sidespin desired, and with the cue already pointing in the direction necessary to compensate for squirt, swerve, and throw. In other words, don't line up center-ball first and then use a pivoting method (like BHE, FHE, or some combination) or a swooping stroke to arrive at the necessary line of aim to use the amount of sidespin desired. This is how pretty much all pros and great players aim when using english; although, this should not be called "parallel english" unless the shot

Regardless of how you determine the necessary stroking line of the cue when applying english, even if completely intuitively, the cue must be pointed in a certain direction for given shot to send the OB into the center of the pocket. For example, with a short distance between the CB and OB and/or with a firm shot, BHE (with an appropriate bridge length) will give you a good line of aim. If you use true parallel english with a shot like this instead, it will be way off (especially for larger amounts of sidespin). However, if you aim intuitively and bring the cue into the necessary line of aim with no pivot, that is fine, but if you don't have the cue in the same direction created by the BHE approach, you won't pocket the shot (unless the pocket can be cheated significantly).

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

I totally understand everything you're saying here. That said, I'm not so sure that everyone does.

As to your definitions, I would dare to guess that nearly everyone that uses english in a non pivoting manner would disagree with them even if they are technically correct.

I know you have done your best & are doing your best to appropriately 'define' certain methods but it is extremely difficult I would think to define what is done unconsciously by the subconscious.

PJ went so far as to say that there is no such thing as parallel english & you define it as only a method of cancelling squirt & swerve.

The thing is you &,I assume, PJ are starting YOUR parallel from a given line, the center line of a no english shot that would pocket the ball dead center in the pocket. Well that is not how everyone sees it & even the tight pockets can be cheated.

It depends with what part of the cue ball one is using to align & to what. Is it the contact to contact point but a bit thick because I intend to use the spin the throw it. Or ...is it contact to contact but a bit thin because I intend to use less swerve & more squirt to thicken the hit. And, Yes, again pockets can be cheated, even the very tight ones.

For example, a long nearly straight but with a slight cut shot can be lined up to MISS the pocket & then a parallel shift to THAT line can be made & then stroked to throw the ball just inside the point to pocket the ball or the squirt can be used depending on the 'imbalance' of offset & speed/swerve.

I could never play to the level that I am going through all what you have defined to apply english. Apparently the OP & others could not either. But I did use english rather well even as an unafraid & perhaps unknowing 13 year old.

I hope you can see my points & remember I have some physics education while many others do not.

I agree with you that the definitions & vernacular can be confusing & are at times the root source of 'disagreements'. It would nice if everyone spoke in a precise & specifically defined manner. BUT if something has been called something for decades upon decades it is very difficult to change it no matter how much more technically correct the change might be.

I had trouble with CJ's TOI using a parallel shift until he said something that 'made' it work. Some or many may not be making a parallel shift when that think that they are & the reason may be that the cue is conical & not tube like with 'parallel' perimeters.

We 'all' know what BHE & & FHE & even a combination of both at the same time are. That said parallel english is a bit in la la land. Then there is that 'primal' or primary pivot where the cue rotates around instead of pivots on.

So...it's not BHE & it's not 'true' parallel, so what is it?

Anyway, Best Wishes to You,
Rick

 

[dr_dave]

Some or many may not be making a parallel shift when that think that they are & the reason may be that the cue is conical & not tube like with 'parallel' perimeters.

Also, if one's vision center remains on the center-ball line of aim (and not over the cue in the offset position), what might appear as parallel will not actually be parallel due to binocular-vision parallax and perspective. This could certainly be one reason why some people might be able to use what they think or perceive as "parallel english" in many situations without consciously or intuitively adjusting for CB deflection.

Anyway, Best Wishes to You,
Rick

Ditto, and Happy Holidays,
Dave