CJ Wiley's New Instructional DVD

Doing seminars with Johnny would be a lot of fun and very impactful indeed.

I noticed Johnny cueing a couple of different ways for english. He addressed the cue ball usually in the traditional manner for most shots (aimed the left side of the cue ball for left spin and vice versa). I noticed when he used a TOI, he crossed over the cue ball. He cued outside and finished with a hit on the opposite side.

I've seen vids where Efren does this, also. At the time I didn't realize what I was looking at, but I now know I saw other top players using this crossing over technique in person over the years. I guess I just didn't know, what I didn't know.

Best,
Mike

Johnny cues it slightly inside, and goes straight through it. Even when he cues it slightly on the other side he has the sensation of throwing it slightly.....at our level the cue ball does go where we "think," however, I would draw some serious "heat" trying to explain that one to the "left brainers". ;) The outcome of working with me for a few days is I can show you how to do some things that seem rather "far out" in print. That's the power of the demonstration, I won't talk about anything that I can't demonstate, and obvously that's not possible in writing. Doing seminars with Johnny would be a lot of fun and very impactful indeed.
 
Hi Mike,

What do you mean regarding crossing over from outside to TOI?

Are you saying they are employing a FHE or BHE as compensation for the squirt?

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose & negate the 3 part pocket process?

I thought CJ said he used a slightly inside 'parallel' stick aim.

Best Regards & Thanks in Advance,

I use a parallel aim, also. I suppose there are many ways to get the amount of cue ball deflection you need. In the future I may even change the way I use it.

Years ago, top players would disguise what they were doing. I used to run with a few and they never told me much. So, a possibility could be that they were hiding what they were using on the cue ball and cued in different, nontraditional ways. It worked, because I never figured it out until CJ came along. animal0028 fish.gifsad0147.gif

Best,
Mike
 
This is a very advanced version and I would suggest working up to it a step at a time

Hi Mike,

What do you mean regarding crossing over from outside to TOI?

Are you saying they are employing a FHE or BHE as compensation for the squirt?

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose & negate the 3 part pocket process?

I thought CJ said he used a slightly inside 'parallel' stick aim.

Best Regards & Thanks in Advance,

Mike is talking about if you're cutting the ball slightly to the left you can cue the ball to the center and go to the inside as well. This is NOT how I would recommend learning the TOI, however, it does work that way as well. It really goes against what is "natural" when you do this (at least what your mind "tells" you is "natural"). Pool at times is a game of opposites, that's why some of my suggestions seem "counter intuitive," it's like hitting down on the ball to make it go up, or cuing it left to make it go right.

I actually cue it to the inside and go slight MORE inside to really "cinch" a ball, but, again, it's not the way I would teach it at first. It just really "drives home" how much bigger your "pocket zone" is using the TOI. In effect you are just deflecting AND throwing it more using this type motion. This is a very advanced version and I would suggest working up to it a step at a time.
 
Last edited:
I noticed Johnny cueing a couple of different ways for english. He addressed the cue ball usually in the traditional manner for most shots (aimed the left side of the cue ball for left spin and vice versa). I noticed when he used a TOI, he crossed over the cue ball. He cued outside and finished with a hit on the opposite side.

I've seen vids where Efren does this, also. At the time I didn't realize what I was looking at, but I now know I saw other top players using this crossing over technique in person over the years. I guess I just didn't know, what I didn't know.

Best,
Mike

Mike,

You've got me thinking of something I saw a long time ago from an outside english perspective that I dismissed, because as a young boy, it made no sense to me. I was thinking only from a spin perspective & not about squirt.

When your stroke is off a bit, you mis by a bit...unless you coordinate it on purpose. I can't wait to get to a table to see if this is a revelation or rubish.

Best Regards,
 
When you master that one you can certainly develop the others with a minimal effort

Mike,

You've got me thinking of something I saw a long time ago from an outside english perspective that I dismissed, because as a young boy, it made no sense to me. I was thinking only from a spin perspective & not about squirt.

When your stroke is off a bit, you mis by a bit...unless you coordinate it on purpose. I can't wait to get to a table to see if this is a revelation or rubish.

Best Regards,

I noticed D.A. and the European team tended to get down and measure up exactly to the center of the cue ball and then go slightly to the desired position. If you watch them closely you will see they don't measure up to the center and hit center unless they're straight in.

They, like all pros are "working the cueball" slightly. This creates a situation where the object ball is thrown slightly by the cue ball deflecting and/or spinning slightly. One influences the other when you cue the ball slightly off center.

The key is to master what the cue ball does and as I recommend it's easiest to master ONE shot instead of several. That one "mastered" shot becomes your foundation to build your entire game. If you haven't mastered the game with "no spin" you certainly won't master it with spin.

The degree of skill to spin and calculate speed/deflection/throw is considerable compared to judging one particular shot. I know it's a typical mistake to try to perfect all the shots when one is all you need.

Build on that one shot and you are building a solid foundation and I recommend using the Inside of the cue ball as your standard shot. When you master that one you can certainly develop the others with a minimal amount of effort.
 
Many of the outside english shots used by the Europeans were extreme spin and hit softly. The faster table and lively rails were easier to navigate with less speed.

It seemed the Americans were playing more of a power game. Niels and occasionally Darren picked up their speed, too. But not like we did. Just an observation from the cheap seats.

Best,
Mike
 
Last edited:
For the most part he's hitting a very flat, "no spin" type shot.

Many of the outside english shots used by the Europeans were extreme spin and hit softly. The faster table and lively rails were easier to navigate with less speed.

It seemed the Americans were playing more of a power game. Niels and occasionally Darren picked up their speed, too. But not like we did. Just an observation from the cheap seats.

Best,
Mike

Yes, the problem with the TV tables is they are sometimes unpredictable. The Spin/Deflection ratios are difficult to judge, especially under pressure. They also keep the cloth very slick because the only play it gets is the TV matches.

I was very impressed with how Johnny is hitting the ball these days, he only spins the ball when he has to. For the most part he's hitting a very flat, "no spin" type shot. He told me he uses the the touch of inside on several shots and I think over the next few years he may use it even more.
 
The two corner pockets on the Team USA side rejected a few balls, too. Darren got robbed on his carom of a nine ball sitting in the pocket. The other two corner pockets on the European side allowed balls that hit a diamond or more up the rail.

Spinning balls on a fast table under pressure, under the tv lights, with new cloth has got to be a guessing game. Turning the cueball loose cost the players more than once. Johnny did keep the rock on a string and seemed to rise to the challenge. Maybe being a little more experienced helped him tame the yips and concentrate more on baby steps.

He didn't move the cue ball too far unless he had to do something. His partners match with Brandon showed his grasp of position zones and angles that Brandon was struggling with somewhat. Johnny did a few things to get back into line after Brandon missed a few position spots. Not that I could do better than Brandon, but Johnny is on the right side of the ball on almost every shot. He'd make lots of players see their mistakes after a game or two of Scotch doubles! :wink:

Best,
Mike
 
Cj, Is there a certain shot with a desired position to get the cue ball to, that a person could set up and shoot over and over to maybe understand the benefits of TOI better, or would it be more beneficial to just shoot a lot of balls scattered randomly on the table with a TOI to more fully understand it.
 
CJ,
I recently bought the download off the site and really did pull some good things from it. In particular the three C's got me thinking correctly again about pre shot routine. I'm also playing with TOI. I took it to the pool room yesterday and as suggested tried for about 3 hours straight. Some shots really did cinch as you say but there seem to be a sweet spot for it to work for me. I use a low deflection shaft btw. My experience was that at about 2'- 3’, CB from OB, the TOI worked perfectly. Any closer and i couldn’t get enough deflection, any farther I would get too much and had absolutely almost no control when shooting say a spot shot out of the kitchen. I tried parallel and back hand versions of TOI and had much better results with the parallel, as my shaft has almost no deflection when using backhand English. I did find I could adjust by hitting the CB farther inside when the balls were close together, almost a half or ¾ tip. Trying to hit it harder didn’t produce real good results for me. My question is, how do you adjust the TOI for closer and longer shots? Do you aim farther off for longer shots? Say almost aim to miss the pocket to allow for more deflection? How about when the balls are closer together? Say for positional reasons you cant hit it real hard. Do you cue farther inside to get the deflection or are these the spots where you abandon the method? Also, do you plan for more deflection when using TOI low? I seemed to need an adjustment due to a slight bit of more deflection using it with low or bottom spin. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

PS. would also like to see you talk through a rack or two so we can see when and where to use this correctly.
 
The two corner pockets on the Team USA side rejected a few balls, too. Darren got robbed on his carom of a nine ball sitting in the pocket. The other two corner pockets on the European side allowed balls that hit a diamond or more up the rail.

Spinning balls on a fast table under pressure, under the tv lights, with new cloth has got to be a guessing game. Turning the cueball loose cost the players more than once. Johnny did keep the rock on a string and seemed to rise to the challenge. Maybe being a little more experienced helped him tame the yips and concentrate more on baby steps.

He didn't move the cue ball too far unless he had to do something. His partners match with Brandon showed his grasp of position zones and angles that Brandon was struggling with somewhat. Johnny did a few things to get back into line after Brandon missed a few position spots. Not that I could do better than Brandon, but Johnny is on the right side of the ball on almost every shot. He'd make lots of players see their mistakes after a game or two of Scotch doubles! :wink:

Best,
Mike

I saw what seemed like more of the European Team's balls hit at least a diamond up on the rail and still fall. Don't know if I was just paying more attention to their balls hitting high up on the rail or not. :embarrassed2: It sure seemed like they were able to pocket the balls despite hitting high up on the rail and it seemed like Team USA didn't get quite as much love in that respect. I contributed the European's "luck" in this area to object ball speed but I could be wrong.

The game is all about precision. The best players play the best shape. When they get out of line or receive a poor cue ball placement from their opponent, they get back in line, QUICKLY and stay there. But it was the SKIDS that took my breath away. Far too many skids with clean balls, imo. Don't know why there were so many skids. Sorry back to CJ Wiley's thread. my bad.
 
A picture is worth a thousand words

CJ,
I recently bought the download off the site and really did pull some good things from it. In particular the three C's got me thinking correctly again about pre shot routine. I'm also playing with TOI. I took it to the pool room yesterday and as suggested tried for about 3 hours straight. Some shots really did cinch as you say but there seem to be a sweet spot for it to work for me. I use a low deflection shaft btw. My experience was that at about 2'- 3’, CB from OB, the TOI worked perfectly. Any closer and i couldn’t get enough deflection, any farther I would get too much and had absolutely almost no control when shooting say a spot shot out of the kitchen. I tried parallel and back hand versions of TOI and had much better results with the parallel, as my shaft has almost no deflection when using backhand English. I did find I could adjust by hitting the CB farther inside when the balls were close together, almost a half or ¾ tip. Trying to hit it harder didn’t produce real good results for me. My question is, how do you adjust the TOI for closer and longer shots? Do you aim farther off for longer shots? Say almost aim to miss the pocket to allow for more deflection? How about when the balls are closer together? Say for positional reasons you cant hit it real hard. Do you cue farther inside to get the deflection or are these the spots where you abandon the method? Also, do you plan for more deflection when using TOI low? I seemed to need an adjustment due to a slight bit of more deflection using it with low or bottom spin. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

PS. would also like to see you talk through a rack or two so we can see when and where to use this correctly.

I understand your questions and how to answer them, however, as you say, it would be better to demonstrate. The key is to use the TOI until you master it and then you'll start to see that it opens up a whole new range of possiblities. I am starting to film a TOI Video tonight and should have it done by early next week.

I'm confident that after seeing a 30-45 minute video it will answer many questions you have about the technique. "A picture is worth a thousand words," and a video is better than a book when it comes to advanced pocket billiard techniques. I started out playing the "regular way," and it was limiting to me, committing to the TOI again makes a big difference.
 
Overall, I think it was a good instructional DVD. I picked up a number of gems to make it worth while.

My only real complaint (and this is more of a pet-peave) is that the audio level isn't consistent throughout. Some scenes have normal audio levels and some scenes have the audio drop much lower, forcing you to turn up the volume on your TV--- and next thing ya know, you blow out your speakers when the video cuts to another clip where the audio is normal again.

At the very end of the video, I see that it was produced by Avina Productions, which probably means Mary Avina did the editing. So Mary, if you're reading this, please have someone show you how to pull mic audio from multiple sources into a mixing board and have the output "level" at a constant strength. It's really quite easy and if you don't have a sound board you can probably rent one super cheap. I'm guessing it's her first instructional video, so it's no biggie--- please take it as constructive criticism so CJ's next video has normal audio :)

CJ covers the basics again -- some of which were overlaps to his first instructional video -- except added descriptions of his view of setting up to a vertical and horizontal plane. There are a few key things in this section I found interesting and I'm looking forward to trying them at a table.

He did cover his 3-part pocket system, TOI, and wrist -- which is what initially got me interested in this dvd. Personally, I wish his entire DVD were only these topics as more advanced players are hungry for this specific stuff. If I can put a request into CJ it would be to make an "Advanced" DVD on ONLY the above and talk through a number of racks and describe your alignment method for each particular shot and describe your TOI offset (would love to see this with an overhead camera view).

Overall, I enjoyed the DVD and learned some new concepts. I hope CJ reads this and does a 3-part Pocket System / TOI DVD and has an hour to an hour and a half of him commentating through numerous racks (maybe play the ghost in a race to 20 or something).

Dave

EXCELLENT insights Spidey. And YES...I wish more such dvd's were available in Intermediate and Advanced versions...and marketed with a meaningful disconut for the purchase of both...which would likely IMPROVE total sales revenue...since a lot of Advanced players won't buy the dvd at all if the word gets out that there is a lot of Beginner/Intermediate stuff on it.

Thanks!

EagleMan

PS: Could most Advanced players benefit by an Intermediate tip or two? Probably. Will they THINK they can? NOT ONE.

Marketing is the science of letting people tell YOU what to sell them!!

(-:
 
I use a parallel aim, also. I suppose there are many ways to get the amount of cue ball deflection you need. In the future I may even change the way I use it.

Years ago, top players would disguise what they were doing. I used to run with a few and they never told me much. So, a possibility could be that they were hiding what they were using on the cue ball and cued in different, nontraditional ways. It worked, because I never figured it out until CJ came along. View attachment 252545View attachment 252546

Best,
Mike

Mike....you're lucky they didn't LIE and tell you something they were in fact NOT doing!

(-:
 
Pool is a "two sided," not a one sided game.

EXCELLENT insights Spidey. And YES...I wish more such dvd's were available in Intermediate and Advanced versions...and marketed with a meaningful disconut for the purchase of both...which would likely IMPROVE total sales revenue...since a lot of Advanced players won't buy the dvd at all if the word gets out that there is a lot of Beginner/Intermediate stuff on it.

Thanks!

EagleMan

PS: Could most Advanced players benefit by an Intermediate tip or two? Probably. Will they THINK they can? NOT ONE.

Marketing is the science of letting people tell YOU what to sell them!!

(-:


I'm glad to hear this, doing beginner fundamentals is essential, however, I covered as much as I could in my first three videos (Ulitmate Pool Secrets). I will always stress measuring to the cue ball in such a way in your pre shot routine that you are a consistent distance. If you're a different distance from the cue ball it throws off all your other fundamental body angles.

This is a common problem with anyone that has big fluctuations in their game. This can be corrected by understanding how the feet positions control the two sides of the body and how to set that "foundation" properly.

Most people are aware of the right foot, and are unaware of the left foot and that it's equally important to control the left side of the body in this manner. Pool is "two sided," not a one sided game. Your right and left side have to coordinate properly to allow the cue to align to your body/eyes correctly every time. This is critical to overall shot perception.

I have a few things I would like to share, which is the TOI first and also go over the wrist/hand/forearm motion in the stroke. These two techniques I've received the most emails about and they will make a positive impact is someone wants to utilize or inorportate these methods to their own game.
 
Hey Cj, I am curious as to how important bridging is too you? I recently changed up my bridge to kind of wedge my shaft tightly/securely in my closed bridge.
 
I'm glad to hear this, doing beginner fundamentals is essential, however, I covered as much as I could in my first three videos (Ulitmate Pool Secrets). I will always stress measuring to the cue ball in such a way in your pre shot routine that you are a consistent distance. If you're a different distance from the cue ball it throws off all your other fundamental body angles.

This is a common problem with anyone that has big fluctuations in their game. This can be corrected by understanding how the feet positions control the two sides of the body and how to set that "foundation" properly.

Most people are aware of the right foot, and are unaware of the left foot and that it's equally important to control the left side of the body in this manner. Pool is "two sided," not a one sided game. Your right and left side have to coordinate properly to allow the cue to align to your body/eyes correctly every time. This is critical to overall shot perception.

I have a few things I would like to share, which is the TOI first and also go over the wrist/hand/forearm motion in the stroke. These two techniques I've received the most emails about and they will make a positive impact is someone wants to utilize or inorportate these methods to their own game.

SO TRUE! One of my early instructors...who I had access to all to infrequently...would WHACK the ankle of my badly placed foot with the butt of his cue!!!*

Didn't take too many of those to get my to be aware of correct placement of BOTH feet!!

And sometimes, he would right down the word "MISS" on a piece of paper and show it to me immediately after a shot that he KNEW I'd miss due to bad foot placement!

(-:

EagleMan

* He was (is) a BIG guy...so he could get away with doing that to me!!!
And his version of "instruction" was making me gamble with him...but I'd get weight and he would give me instruction during each rack. But he, of course, won anyway and got a perfectly fair "lesson fee."

You KNOW him. (-:

Don't mean to jabber on...just want to give you a ROGER THAT re: the importance of the placement of BOTH feet.
 
The tip is what you're actually playing the game with

Hey Cj, I am curious as to how important bridging is too you? I recently changed up my bridge to kind of wedge my shaft tightly/securely in my closed bridge.

I play best with a very tight bridge and also press very firmly with my fingers on the table. The purpose of the bridge is to keep the cue from moving as it goes straight down the "line of the shot."

Sometimes I slack up on my bridge and I'll notice right away in the results. Sometimes to increase your touch try taking practice strokes and feeling the tip touch your bridge.

The tip is what you're actually playing the game with, so I suggest connecting to the tip any way you can. This is something that can help your game right away if you're experiencing control issues. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
I play best with a very tight bridge and also press very firmly with my fingers on the table. The purpose of the bridge is to keep the cue from moving as it goes straight down the "line of the shot."

Sometimes I slack up on my bridge and I'll notice right away in the results. Sometimes to increase your touch try taking practice strokes and feeling the tip touch your bridge.

The tip is what you're actually playing the game with, so I suggest connecting to the tip any way you can. This is something that can help your game right away if you're experiencing control issues. 'The Game is the Teacher'

What I have done is I turn my bridge (hand) counter clockwise (with the cue in my bridge) and the cue forms a wedge against my finger and runs just above my thumb. The thing with this is you will get no subconscious steering at all. You have to make sure you are on the contact point 100% or you will miss :grin-square:.
 
send my fiance (who's off today) on a wild goose-chase for some crap we really don't need at a place that probably doesn't have it so I can watch this in peace.

Man can I relate to that......I have a wife, daughter, and a grandson living with me and watching a video in peace is a rare occasion. I have to wait until the time is right so I can concentrate on my pool related videos. I have CJ's first set of DVD's and I learned a lot from them and I can't wait to get his new set of DVD's. I learned a new way to aim that's helped me a lot on my pool game from his first set of DVD's.

If you ever get a chance to see the Accu-stats video of CJ playing Steve Mizerak at the Sands in Reno, NV you will be treated to some of the best offensive 9 ball you'll ever see in a 9 ball match. Anyone who doesn't know how CJ plays should watch that video.

James
 
Back
Top