Club rating question

[Yotehntr]

I've never played in a club (2nd shift sees to that) but reading on here I see folks talking about club ratings (APA) and was wondering how ratings are calculated. Is it just a guesstimate by leaders in the club or say someone is a 3 given a clear shot they can consistently run 3 balls better than 50% if the time, or a 5 can consistently run 5 etc? Thanks

 

[tucson9ball]

There are different handicaps/ratings for almost every league.
Our local league uses a handicap based on how many balls pocketed per game/average. This is a 8 ball league.
The handicap is usually figured after one week of play for a new player. Let's say they play 5 games and win 3, the other 2 they make 2 balls and 4 balls respectively.
Each win is worth 10pts and losses get you whatever the ball count is, so this player would get 36pts divided by 5 games = 7.2
You can round up once it's .5 or more.
Or you can use the decimal for a more accurate rating.
This is just one type of rating, but pretty simple. After a player gets 5 weeks or so, their rating doesn't jump around very much.

 

[supergreenman]

I've never played in a club (2nd shift sees to that) but reading on here I see folks talking about club ratings (APA) and was wondering how ratings are calculated. Is it just a guesstimate by leaders in the club or say someone is a 3 given a clear shot they can consistently run 3 balls better than 50% if the time, or a 5 can consistently run 5 etc? Thanks

oh dear, APA ratings are not for the weak of heart. They use a magic algorithm to come up with a number from 1 to 7 for 8 ball.

It has to do with:

• your score
• how many innings you've had
• offensive vs defensive shots
• how the sun is hanging over miami

 

[sbpoolleague]

No the 2's, 3's, 4's etc do not mean anything specific in the APA Equalizer system, other than a relational rating.

Here are a couple of links to the APA website where the system is described. The description is utterly useless because the system is proprietary and the APA will not say how the numbers are actually generated, but there is a hot picture of Jeannette Lee on the site so it's worth a click.

How are handicaps calculated?

The Equalizer® Handicap System

 

[Yotehntr]

That was worth a click!

So if a 5 plays a 3 the 5 has to make 38 points (balls?) before the 3 makes 25 points (balls)? am I getting this right? And this is in 8 ball are there similar rules for 9 ball? I'm more of a 9 ball player is why I ask. Thanks for the reply's!
Brad

 

[drv4]

That was worth a click!

So if a 5 plays a 3 the 5 has to make 38 points (balls?) before the 3 makes 25 points (balls)? am I getting this right? And this is in 8 ball are there similar rules for 9 ball? I'm more of a 9 ball player is why I ask. Thanks for the reply's!
Brad

For 9 ball yes a 5 goes to 38 and a 3 to 25. Each ball is worth 1 point the 9 worth 2. A 5 vs 3 in 8 ball would be a 4 to 2 race. The 5 needing 4 racks won.

 

[Scott Lee]

This is complete BS. There is no "secret" to the APA handicap system. I detailed it here several years ago. From your posts in the past, it is obvious you're an APA basher, and a BCAPL supporter. I support all league play...handicapped, or not. APA handicaps are performance based, just like other leagues.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

No the 2's, 3's, 4's etc do not mean anything specific in the APA Equalizer system, other than a relational rating.

Here are a couple of links to the APA website where the system is described. The description is utterly useless because the system is proprietary and the APA will not say how the numbers are actually generated, but there is a hot picture of Jeannette Lee on the site so it's worth a click.

How are handicaps calculated?

The Equalizer® Handicap System

 

[cubswin]

I think the apa ratings are a bit goofy personally. I played 9 ball in the spring, and ended up a sl8. Now in my local league, I probably am an 8, but since it is a national league program I think they should be more consistent. I know other area players, that are a sl6 or 7 that play ever bit as good, and in one case better than me. They just play 45 minutes away with stronger players.

 

[lorider]

I think the apa ratings are a bit goofy personally. I played 9 ball in the spring, and ended up a sl8. Now in my local league, I probably am an 8, but since it is a national league program I think they should be more consistent. I know other area players, that are a sl6 or 7 that play ever bit as good, and in one case better than me. They just play 45 minutes away with stronger players.

Having had 4 players from other areas move here and join my teams I brought this issue up in a thread a while back.

All 4 players were weaker than players here with the same handicap.


One interesting thing I found they all had in common was the fact that they were what you would call once a week recreational players . I looked up their lifetime stats and found they all had very few matches for the length of time they have been apa members. One 6 in particular only has 210 matches over a 12 year period.

By comparison countless players here play several nights a week so it stands to reason they would be stronger at their level than players who pls once a week even though they have the same handicap.

I myself have over 1100 matches in a 6 year period and I cut back somewhat this year.

By the way ...neither of those new 6's or a 5 that moved here are as string as I am at a 5.

 

[Yotehntr]

For 9 ball yes a 5 goes to 38 and a 3 to 25. Each ball is worth 1 point the 9 worth 2. A 5 vs 3 in 8 ball would be a 4 to 2 race. The 5 needing 4 racks won.

It sounds like a 5 could actually lose the games and still win then? (is that right?) if I understand a 5 could run 1-8 leave the 9 in the jaws and the score would be 8 to 2.

I'm not trying to stir anything up here just trying to understand. In my younger (gambling) years I guess I rated folks according to what I thought they could run... I'd start playing when they neared their run out window (so to speak). Seems that would get a fella beat in the tournaments if I understand the 9 ball side.

As far as the 8 ball side it seems a little more like straight pool? That is if there is something to calculate between the offense and defensive shots.. That would be an interesting undertaking to calculate. (over my head anyway)

 

[lorider]

It sounds like a 5 could actually lose the games and still win then? (is that right?) if I understand a 5 could run 1-8 leave the 9 in the jaws and the score would be 8 to 2.

I'm not trying to stir anything up here just trying to understand. In my younger (gambling) years I guess I rated folks according to what I thought they could run... I'd start playing when they neared their run out window (so to speak). Seems that would get a fella beat in the tournaments if I understand the 9 ball side.

As far as the 8 ball side it seems a little more like straight pool? That is if there is something to calculate between the offense and defensive shots.. That would be an interesting undertaking to calculate. (over my head anyway)

Let me give you a little piece of advice if I may. Dont worry about yours or your opponents handicaps. Just play your game to the best of your ability and let whatever handicapping system you are playing under do its job.

You will find that you will enjoy playing more if you dont worry what your opponents handicap is or what you think it should be. The reason I say this is because I started enjoying playing more and actually started playing better also when I quit worrying about other peoples handicaps. Now I just make sure the scoresheets at filled out properly and let the handicapping system do its job.

 

[Scott Lee]

Tap, tap, tap! That's the right attitude lorider! Play your best and have fun. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Let me give you a little piece of advice if I may. Dont worry about yours or your opponents handicaps. Just play your game to the best of your ability and let whatever handicapping system you are playing under do its job.

You will find that you will enjoy playing more if you dont worry what your opponents handicap is or what you think it should be. The reason I say this is because I started enjoying playing more and actually started playing better also when I quit worrying about other peoples handicaps. Now I just make sure the scoresheets at filled out properly and let the handicapping system do its job.

 

[Yotehntr]

Let me give you a little piece of advice if I may. Dont worry about yours or your opponents handicaps. Just play your game to the best of your ability and let whatever handicapping system you are playing under do its job.

I definetly would if I didn't work 2nd shift! (my op) I was just asking questions to learn for hopefully the future. I'd like to think I won't be on 2nd shift the remaining work years of my life.

 

[cubswin]

By the way ...neither of those new 6's or a 5 that moved here are as string as I am at a 5.

Which to me points out a flaw in the handicap system. Doesn't matter much to me, as I won't be playing apa again. Currently playing napa, and like that. Mostly I gamble and play tournaments, so league is a way to practice.

For a small town, there usually is three nights of leagues to play in a week, and napa is getting most of the players this year.

 

[Skippy27]

Which to me points out a flaw in the handicap system. Doesn't matter much to me, as I won't be playing apa again. Currently playing napa, and like that. Mostly I gamble and play tournaments, so league is a way to practice.

For a small town, there usually is three nights of leagues to play in a week, and napa is getting most of the players this year.

Not sure I would agree with this or his statement in general based on a reply I made to the thread he referenced.

If the person doesnt play often and keeps his rating up, then he is still winning games (maybe not matches) while averaging low enough innings to do so. Whether he is shooting all 2's or all 7's is irrelevant.

A 6 from a weak area is going to have average innings within the 6 range with a high game winning percentage. That game winning percentage only matters when they normalize your innings. Is it possible his average innings are unnaturally low due to the area being weak? Sure, most likely due to a culture that does not use safety play thus players finish racks in less innings naturally, but that would be an anomaly out there and maybe it is off by barely 1 inning or even just a half an inning.

In a nutshell, the system will work over the long run and the guy has an ability to play as a 6, he just isn't right now. I am going through the exact same thing with a 5 right now. Over the last 2 sessions he has shot more like a weak 4 than a 5 and if he went to your area you would be questioning his rating. Yet I have shot with him for 3 years and I know he is a 5 and just needs to step up his game.