CNC Inlay Work

JoeyInCali said:
Might be a good idea to offset the tailtock's height, Dick?
The diameter difference divided by 2?
Click to expand...

I've never thought of it that way but that sounds fairly close. With my Cad?cam software I set all of the parameters that are automatically entered in the fields. On each inlay drawing that I create, I take into consideration it's size and change the depth of the pockets or the depth of cut on the inlay material. I also change the movement speeds of the machine for different hardness of materials so as not to break end mills. On some inlays that are small I may not go as deep as .125 for the pockets but usually I do.

You are correct about the tail-stocks height. You raise the headstock so that the top of the cue is level. Then, if I'm going to cut something that is straight such as billets of deco-rings, I have a metal shim that is placed under the tail-stock so that my cuts are of the correct depth for this item.

Dick
 
It looks like that spindle has a max speed of 10,000 rpm. Isn't that a little less than half of what you want?
 
rhncue said:
I've never thought of it that way but that sounds fairly close. With my Cad?cam software I set all of the parameters that are automatically entered in the fields. On each inlay drawing that I create, I take into consideration it's size and change the depth of the pockets or the depth of cut on the inlay material. I also change the movement speeds of the machine for different hardness of materials so as not to break end mills. On some inlays that are small I may not go as deep as .125 for the pockets but usually I do.

You are correct about the tail-stocks height. You raise the headstock so that the top of the cue is level. Then, if I'm going to cut something that is straight such as billets of deco-rings, I have a metal shim that is placed under the tail-stock so that my cuts are of the correct depth for this item.

Dick
Click to expand...
Do you cut points with this mill too? thnx
 
JoeyInCali said:
Do you cut points with this mill too? thnx
Click to expand...

No, I just cut flat bottom points on it. V-groove half splice points I cut on a mill so that I can use a larger, more robust cutter.

Dick
 
JoeyInCali said:
Might be a good idea to offset the tailtock's height, Dick?
The diameter difference divided by 2?
Click to expand...
It really depends on how close to final dimension you are when you do your inlays. You have to keep in mind that the rings, if you do use them on the subject cue, are faced and instaled perpendicular to the center axis of the cue. Canted inlaying can make the inlay upper and lower edges creep off center, above and below distances from rings. Don't be surprised if your inlay has a greater distance from the upper ring than the lower ring in the butt sleeve if you overlook "finish dimension" inlay center. Negligible if you're real close to final dimension (section diameter).
 
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dchristal said:
It looks like that spindle has a max speed of 10,000 rpm. Isn't that a little less than half of what you want?
Click to expand...

You can get by with 10k rpm - you may not be able to cut as fast and/or deep as you could with a hi$ spindle - but it's <$4k for a semi-turnkey setup.

The OP was only looking to do inlay work on a hobby/learning basis,
not mass production.

Dale
 
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JoeyInCali said:
Might be a good idea to offset the tailtock's height, Dick?
The diameter difference divided by 2?
Click to expand...

That's what I did with my Techno Isel Gantry system. I mounted my turntable and tailstock on the machine. The tailstock required a spacer underneath to match the chuck height. I use this spacer for cutting ringwork slots, engraving my pins etc. I also made one that is thinner, by the same formula you suggested, that interchanges for level bottomed pockets in my inlays.

When I first bought my CNC a close buddy, who'd had some cnc experience in another cue shop, tried to help me get started. He spent a month or so trying to project the plane of the long axis (which I happen to call my "Y" axis" ) at the necessary angle to compensate for the taper. With modern software it's not that tough, we were using BobCAD ver 14 back before they kinda got their shit together and started providing Tech Support. That was one of the bleakest months of my life. I was going through a divorce. Had just sold my poolroom and was for the first time building cues full time and supporting a family with it, and I'd just spent 16K on a CNC machine, having almost never sat at a computer keyboard. And was trying to get that 16K paperweight producing something! I finally told my buddy "screw that projecting the angle stuff" and I offset my tailstock, like I wanted to do from the get go, lol. I think that pissed my buddy off. He quit coming around and still owes me 2 cheese coneys from a bet on Papa Bush's last election. :p


just more hot air!


Sherm
 
cuesmith said:
That's what I did with my Techno Isel Gantry system. I mounted my turntable and tailstock on the machine. The tailstock required a spacer underneath to match the chuck height. I use this spacer for cutting ringwork slots, engraving my pins etc. I also made one that is thinner, by the same formula you suggested, that interchanges for level bottomed pockets in my inlays.

When I first bought my CNC a close buddy, who'd had some cnc experience in another cue shop, tried to help me get started. He spent a month or so trying to project the plane of the long axis (which I happen to call my "Y" axis" ) at the necessary angle to compensate for the taper. With modern software it's not that tough, we were using BobCAD ver 14 back before they kinda got their shit together and started providing Tech Support. That was one of the bleakest months of my life. I was going through a divorce. Had just sold my poolroom and was for the first time building cues full time and supporting a family with it, and I'd just spent 16K on a CNC machine, having almost never sat at a computer keyboard. And was trying to get that 16K paperweight producing something! I finally told my buddy "screw that projecting the angle stuff" and I offset my tailstock, like I wanted to do from the get go, lol. I think that pissed my buddy off. He quit coming around and still owes me 2 cheese coneys from a bet on Papa Bush's last election. :p


just more hot air!


Sherm
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing that Sherm .
 
I was thinking about getting a taig to get My feet wet, for doing inlay, and learn the basics from that before building My gantry. A few years back Chris sold Me a offset center to use with the pantograph I built, and If I indicate It from the top of the tailstock, then that levels the cue out well for Me, so I figured on offsetting the tailstock height in the same way on the cnc mill anyhow. Is there any big advantage to going the other way, and dialing the taper into the program? I'm just curious why off setting the tailstock wouldn't be the first choice to begin with?

Also the 10k spindles the taigs come with do seem kind of slow to me. I thought about switching out for one of those spindles like the guy on ebay was selling back when. I know a couple of people here were trying them out. Just wondering how they worked out? What did they go up to, Like 30K?

Thanks, Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I was thinking about getting a taig to get My feet wet, for doing inlay, and learn the basics from that before building My gantry. A few years back Chris sold Me a offset center to use with the pantograph I built, and If I indicate It from the top of the tailstock, then that levels the cue out well for Me, so I figured on offsetting the tailstock height in the same way on the cnc mill anyhow. Is there any big advantage to going the other way, and dialing the taper into the program? I'm just curious why off setting the tailstock wouldn't be the first choice to begin with?

Also the 10k spindles the taigs come with do seem kind of slow to me. I thought about switching out for one of those spindles like the guy on ebay was selling back when. I know a couple of people here were trying them out. Just wondering how they worked out? What did they go up to, Like 30K?

Thanks, Greg
Click to expand...

upsetting, or is it downsetting, the tailstock requires some kind of physical
change to do one function, whereas modifying one software parameter
not only leaves the equipment 'in place' but is trivial to modify/tweak if
the need arises.

FWIW a certain individual had accomplished the 'software solution' on
a more capable(?) cad/cam package in about 32 man minuets.
My sources inform me that the afore mentioned 'package' is, in fact,
The one now in use by a certain other individual known to some
as a smith of the cue persuation

Dale<see in sea>
 
pdcue said:
upsetting, or is it downsetting, the tailstock requires some kind of physical
change to do one function, whereas modifying one software parameter
not only leaves the equipment 'in place' but is trivial to modify/tweak if
the need arises.

FWIW a certain individual had accomplished the 'software solution' on
a more capable(?) cad/cam package in about 32 man minuets.
My sources inform me that the afore mentioned 'package' is, in fact,
The one now in use by a certain other individual known to some
as a smith of the cue persuation

Dale<see in sea>
Click to expand...

Dale, you are correct, you can tilt the inlay part in a cam such as bobcad. This would require you to set part on an incline or decline on the Z axis. Not that hard if you know what you are doing. A side effect of this tilt will slow donw the cnc and create a much larger program. In the long run it would be easier to just offset the cue and run an indicator down it to check for flatness (run out). I believe in the KISS rule.

Jim.
 
I started with a sherline mill and ended up using the z column from for that on my cnc machine. I use an offset center that cost next to nothing from Lee that levels the target surface. I bought the spindle from the guy on ebay and now it's quick and easy to go from router to milling head to high speed spindle. When the motor quits I plan to replace it with a brushless R/C car motor. Should be quiet, smooth, and crazy high rpm.
dcspindle.jpg
 
dchristal said:
Thanks, Joey. I noticed your very active in CNC discussions. Do you mind if I ask what your'e using?
Click to expand...
I just have a simple cnc on 80/20 alums and HK rails.
3 axis using Mach2 and Xylotex controller.

I'm making up my mind if I should just get the K2 3925 or come up with my own.
Turning is more important than inlays right now.
Manual turning takes a loooong time.
 
I agree. I just received my Unique taper shaper today. Still haven't opened the box yet. I designed my machine to be able to do both, but still, it can only do one thing at a time and it's kind of a pain to reconfigure it. I do still think it will be worthwhile if I can manage to cut pockets, inlay, turn, then cut new pockets without un-mounting the cue.
dccnc.jpg
 
WOW!
I like that.
A tapering machine I think should be easy for you to make.
Two 20MM thompsons with block bearings and a lead screw?
Check DZ's gantry at his site.
He has a nice nice setup.
 
Yeah, I could make one, but lately I've been wanting to make more sawdust and less metal shavings. Also, I don't think that I could improve on the taper shaper. It does what it does extremely well.

Bob has a techno-isel. I agree that his shop, tools, and techniques are first rate. If money were not an object, and I had the space, that's exactly what I'd get. I really like the way they protect the bearings and screws from dust. However, my wife has carefully explained to me that I will not be purchasing a twenty thousand dollar machine.
 
Mc2 said:
Dale, you are correct, you can tilt the inlay part in a cam such as bobcad. This would require you to set part on an incline or decline on the Z axis. Not that hard if you know what you are doing. A side effect of this tilt will slow donw the cnc and create a much larger program. In the long run it would be easier to just offset the cue and run an indicator down it to check for flatness (run out). I believe in the KISS rule.

Jim.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's a BobCad thing.

That wasn't my experience at all - IIRC - and it was 15 years ago -
the package I used, there was no increase in cutting time, and little
increase in program size.

YMMV

Dale
 
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