CNC spindle

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
So I have spent the last couple nights looking at cnc spindles...my head hurts. I currently have been using a small rigid router, and was going to upgrade it to my bosch 1617 router, but at 6 lbs....decided to look at air/water cooled spindles. What do most of you guys/gals use? Don't have unlimited funds but would like to do it right, as this should finally setup my CNC for awhile. Have read a bunch here, but most from a few yrs ago, so wondering what the current feelings are as to how it all worked out. Do like the ability to have Mach control it. Thanks,
Dave
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Hey Dave,
I've had really good luck with the Huanyung 1.5kw spindle (water cooled) and matching Huanyung VFD. I only have 110v available so that limited my options. I'm running it with a $9 RS485 USB stick and it works great. I'm running UCCNC but I've seen others running the same RS485 stick with MACH3 and they have no problems. My only advice would be to go for the water cooled over the air cooled as they cool better, seem to last longer, and most important to me, they are QUIET! I can't hear mine over the fans on my controller and VFD... to the point I have to look at the bit to make sure it's spinning. 10 times quieter than my dust collector and it's not extreemly loud.

I don't know what your budget is but the whole set up with a quality spindle cable and shielded cable for the RS485 would put you back ~350.00. There are cheaper ones out there but be careful, a lot of times they have no documentation and zero quality control. People have had issues with Huanyung QC as well but from what I've read, they are quick to respond and make things right. I've never had the need for support although I did have a after purchase question and they got right back to me.

This might be out of your price range but on the other hand you'd end up with something that will serve you well for some time. I've read postings by guys that have been running them 8 hours a day in production for 2-3 years without trouble.

One thing to keep in mind, although they say they are rated at 2HP, they are not. 1.5kw @ 110v is 13.6 amps = ~2HP. The VFD limits the amps to (IIRC) 7.5A and the spindle itself was stamped with 110v-5A. This is what I had a question about. They assured the spindle was rated for 13A but it was moot since the VFD only allows 7.5A. So long story short, the set I purchased is limited to ~1HP. However it hasn't ever been a limiting factor for me in anything I've cut. In order to put a real 2HP to any work you'd need some big iron rigitity and maybe larger tooling anyway.

That brings me to tooling. The 110v spindles are limited to ER11 collets so nothing more than 7mm (or 1/4") tool shanks. Whereas the 2.2kw spindles will mostly come with ER20 allowing up to 13mm (or1/2") tools. Problem is, it's a fools errand to run a 2.2kw spindle on 110v.

So as with anything else, it's always a trade off. I'd love to run 3/8" and, on occasion, 1/2" tools but without 220v in my shop there's just no way. And there's always that rigitity thing anyway.

If you decide to go that route and have any questions let me know. I did a ton of research when I put mine together and would be glad to share.

I was surprised at how easy it was to set up the RS485. Ran a couple (shielded) wires from the USB to the VFD and loaded a driver and it "just worked".

One other important thing to watch for.... regardless if you go with air or water cooled make sure the ground wire is connected in the spindle and be sure to ground it on the VFD end. The one that came with my machine was not even connected inside the spindle and they had used a three conductor cable between the spindle and VFD. The replacement Huanyung was grounded properly.

Hope this helps,
Stay safe,
Ken
 
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Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Thanks for the response Ken, very informative. I am hoping to make the switch soon, and am looking to buy a complete setup kit. I will take you up on your offer, as this is new area for me and only want to do it once, correctly. I do have 220v in the shop, but my dust collector runs on it and not sure if I will be able to run both at the same time.
 

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I replace my spindle, will look into the metal cutting version. The one I have has no torque or power in the lower revs under 7k or so. For wood is no issue, but I do make the odd parts from Al. The metal cutting version has the tool changing ability like what Royce had set up. Just food for thought.
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Thanks for the response Ken, very informative. I am hoping to make the switch soon, and am looking to buy a complete setup kit. I will take you up on your offer, as this is new area for me and only want to do it once, correctly. I do have 220v in the shop, but my dust collector runs on it and not sure if I will be able to run both at the same time.
I don't think there would be any issue with running both from 220. 220 will run the same power with half the amps. So if you've got a standard 20A circuit breaker I'd have to have a 40A 110v circuit to run the same amount of power. I've put an ampmeter on my circuit during the heaviest cut I've ever done and it barely registered 4A with my 110v dust collector running on the same circuit. I thought I may have problems with tripping the circuit breaker (15A) or line noise but everything ran fine.

You'd be in a better position still in that your computer, controller, and stepper drivers would be on a separate 110 circuit. All of mine run on the same circuit.

Neil is right and I didn't think to mention it but these spindles don't like to run less than 6-7000 RPM. They heat up quickly and have no torque at all. I make a point to never run mine at less than 12k RPM. But then again, I only cut wood and plastic and even though I've replaced the table on mine I still don't think it would be rigid enough to cut metal anyway. Some guys do it but they take really small shallow cuts.

If I were you I'd take a closer look at the 220v offerings as they are about the same price as the 110v setups. Just having the additional larger tooling options is well worth it IMHO.

The spindles Neil is talking about if I read right are very expensive, anything with a tool changer is. Not to say I wouldn't love to have one! ;)

ken
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Well, Budget wise, not sure yet, but would like to stay below $450 total for all parts, accessories etc, and want: water cooled, er20 collets, 2.2K. From what I have read, the 110volt ones are not worth deaaling with, But can I use a step-up transformer? Really would like to not have to run a 220volt line if I don't have to, or rearrainge the shop so I can run on the same outlet as the dust collector. I am surprised that they weigh 11-12lbs....thought it would be lighter than my Bosch 1617 router but they are double the weight. I hope I built the Z axis strong enough.
 

Guerra Cues

I build one cue at a time
Silver Member
Well, Budget wise, not sure yet, but would like to stay below $450 total for all parts, accessories etc, and want: water cooled, er20 collets, 2.2K. From what I have read, the 110volt ones are not worth deaaling with, But can I use a step-up transformer? Really would like to not have to run a 220volt line if I don't have to, or rearrainge the shop so I can run on the same outlet as the dust collector. I am surprised that they weigh 11-12lbs....thought it would be lighter than my Bosch 1617 router but they are double the weight. I hope I built the Z axis strong enough.

I don’t like water cooled stuff on my equipment... something goes wrong and the damage will be much bigger from what I tried to save... my setup was close to 1k with everything but that spindle has ceramic bearings and will probably outlast you and me.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, Budget wise, not sure yet, but would like to stay below $450 total for all parts, accessories etc, and want: water cooled, er20 collets, 2.2K. From what I have read, the 110volt ones are not worth deaaling with, But can I use a step-up transformer? Really would like to not have to run a 220volt line if I don't have to, or rearrainge the shop so I can run on the same outlet as the dust collector. I am surprised that they weigh 11-12lbs....thought it would be lighter than my Bosch 1617 router but they are double the weight. I hope I built the Z axis strong enough.
At that price, I don't think there is any choice but go Chinese . Not even Taiwanese . Pic is mine . Small VFD is inside the controller box. I have a small 110V UGRA in my other manual taper machine. https://ugracnc.com/store/cnc-spind...d-cnc-spindle-0-8-kw-220-v-24000-rpm-s-detail It is the lightest they make. You can run on via 110V VFD. But, it is small. ER11 only.
 

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Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
At that price, I don't think there is any choice but go Chinese . Not even Taiwanese . Pic is mine . Small VFD is inside the controller box. I have a small 110V UGRA in my other manual taper machine. https://ugracnc.com/store/cnc-spind...d-cnc-spindle-0-8-kw-220-v-24000-rpm-s-detail It is the lightest they make. You can run on via 110V VFD. But, it is small. ER11 only.
I am leaning to the Chinese (don't really want to but) and the Huanyang complete setup is looking really good, and like Ken, will use a USB to RS485 adapter to control it thru Mach3. So far what I've read about them has been pretty good results. I do this as a hobby, so I cannot go for the top shelf stuff, my wife would divorce me..lol. I like using 1/2" shank bit as much as I can so the er20 collet seem to make sense for me, especially when doing V grooves for points.
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Well, Budget wise, not sure yet, but would like to stay below $450 total for all parts, accessories etc, and want: water cooled, er20 collets, 2.2K. From what I have read, the 110volt ones are not worth deaaling with, But can I use a step-up transformer? Really would like to not have to run a 220volt line if I don't have to, or rearrainge the shop so I can run on the same outlet as the dust collector. I am surprised that they weigh 11-12lbs....thought it would be lighter than my Bosch 1617 router but they are double the weight. I hope I built the Z axis strong enough.
While a 110-220 step up would probably work you'd be getting the worst of both worlds. You'd still be limited to the amperage available on the 110 circuit, and while step-ups are very efficient, there will still be some power loss in the process. I would have gone that way if it were viable but there's no such thing as a free lunch. :)

I think you'd be a lot happier just biting the bullet and running another 220 line or tapping off the existing one for your DC. You can run the line yourself and then if you're not 100% confident with your work, have an electrician come in and look things over. You can save a bunch of money that way and still have the confidence that it's done right and is safe. Just a thought....

Also, don't cheap out on the collets. I made that mistake a while back. You can get good USA made collets with a (real) TIR of .0001" for about 15 each.

Good luck and be sure to post pics once you get it all set up!
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While a 110-220 step up would probably work you'd be getting the worst of both worlds. You'd still be limited to the amperage available on the 110 circuit, and while step-ups are very efficient, there will still be some power loss in the process. I would have gone that way if it were viable but there's no such thing as a free lunch. :)

I think you'd be a lot happier just biting the bullet and running another 220 line or tapping off the existing one for your DC. You can run the line yourself and then if you're not 100% confident with your work, have an electrician come in and look things over. You can save a bunch of money that way and still have the confidence that it's done right and is safe. Just a thought....

Also, don't cheap out on the collets. I made that mistake a while back. You can get good USA made collets with a (real) TIR of .0001" for about 15 each.

Good luck and be sure to post pics once you get it all set up!
Where ? Precise Bits ?
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Where ? Precise Bits ?
Precise Bits are always great quality, I have a couple but am always looking to save money where I can. I think I paid about 30 a piece for them.

Rediculous Machine Tools.... they have a Ebay store and also sell on Amazon. While they don't say made in USA they do say 100% Quality controlled in the USA so I thought I'd give them a try. Probably not made in USA but I do think they at least QC them here. I've never had any trouble thier stuff. No problems with any vibration and the finish is better than the normal chinese offerings. I figured it was worth a chance for half the price.

Much better than some of the better name brand made in USA tools I've purchased in the past. Then again, I've only purchased ER11 collets from them. Thinking about giving some of their clamps a try.
 

MVPCues

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You can't afford what you can't afford, but I agree with what others are saying. I think Ken has the goods on this one after reading his posts. Not being able to go higher than 1/4" shank was a deal breaker for me when I was shopping.

I bought the same setup Tony referenced, he got the reference from DZ. As Tony said, they will outlast us with a modicum of care. They are quality, built to run nonstop 8 hours a day for 20 years kind of thing.
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
You can't afford what you can't afford, but I agree with what others are saying. I think Ken has the goods on this one after reading his posts. Not being able to go higher than 1/4" shank was a deal breaker for me when I was shopping.

I bought the same setup Tony referenced, he got the reference from DZ. As Tony said, they will outlast us with a modicum of care. They are quality, built to run nonstop 8 hours a day for 20 years kind of thing.
Yes budgets are a bitch but with a little thinking outside the box it can still get done. I'd love to have you and Tony's setup but at least for now I have something that works even though it's not ideal.

I had a farmer friend that won a million dollars in the lottery in Oregon years ago. I asked him what he was going to do, and he replied, "keep farming until the money runs out!" I think the same could be said for building cues! :)
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Thanks for the response Ken, very informative. I am hoping to make the switch soon, and am looking to buy a complete setup kit. I will take you up on your offer, as this is new area for me and only want to do it once, correctly. I do have 220v in the shop, but my dust collector runs on it and not sure if I will be able to run both at the same time.
I run my dust collector, my metal lathe and a Kress router all on the same 220 circuit in my shop originally installed for a welder. Been a couple of years now without any issues.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Following for updates. Looking to better my setup and control from a Kress 1050.
Well, I pulled the trigger and purchased the Huanyang kit.... the next day got an email saying 'out of stock for at least 35 days' from the ebay seller..... even though they had 2 in stock on the listing....cannot find the same kit as that one that is still in stock for that same price.....UGGGGHHH!!!! Guess I gotta wait til China restocks the USA based warehouse....
 

kgoods

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Well, I pulled the trigger and purchased the Huanyang kit.... the next day got an email saying 'out of stock for at least 35 days' from the ebay seller..... even though they had 2 in stock on the listing....cannot find the same kit as that one that is still in stock for that same price.....UGGGGHHH!!!! Guess I gotta wait til China restocks the USA based warehouse....
You might try the Huanyang store on Amazon, that's where I got mine and I just looked and they appear to have the 220v kit in stock with the mount in case you need it.

Here's the listing

If you don't need the water pump and mount they have them separate here:
https://www.amazon.com/Variable-Fre...verter-HUANYANG/dp/B077KS9LRY?ref_=ast_sto_dp
https://www.amazon.com/Huanyang-Spi...-Engraving/dp/B077BTW4NQ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Good luck

Also if you can swing it I'd go for the 4 bearing version, don't know for sure but it sure seems like it would last longer and for $25 seems like cheap insurance.
 
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