Cognoscenti question?

pharaoh68 said:
But Joe Gold's cues have a very "production" look to them. And I'm not sure that they are all that collectible yet.

Ken said that most Cogs look the same to him. He was careful to say that the ones he had seen looked exactly the same - NOT that all Cogs look exactly the same. These are two VERY different statements. And to tell him that he is wrong, well, one would need to have knowledge of what Ken has and hasn't seen.

with respect, we can go round and round on "opinion". my statements are based solely on design composition, execution of the work and the 400 to 500 Cog's i've seen, many, i know if ken and yourself could have seen, the thought of "Joe Gold's cues have a very "production" look to them" i'd hope would completely leave your mind. i never could stand hearing that his cues look production, which by the way doesn't happen too often. i never understood what that means. what's "production" about them?
 
Varney Cues said:
Joe has currently quit making cues. He sold a lot of equipment and is taking a break. Maybe relocating to FL. ;)
Joe is staying here in Chitown. he's contemplating his return to cue making but i think he said he doesn't have an exact time frame.
 
skins said:
with respect, we can go round and round on "opinion". my statements are based solely on design composition, execution of the work and the 400 to 500 Cog's i've seen, many, i know if ken and yourself could have seen, the thought of "Joe Gold's cues have a very "production" look to them" i'd hope would completely leave your mind. i never could stand hearing that his cues look production, which by the way doesn't happen too often. i never understood what that means. what's "production" about them?

Tim-

No disrespect here, but you're saying that we can go round and round on opinion but, in fact, this thread is kinda based on opinions. Ken offered his. You sort of attacked him for it. I merely backed him up by saying "Hey! He's not the only one who thinks that!"

Ever hear the expression "One man's whiskey is another man's wine"? I think that applies here. You can argue all you want about how each Cog is a work of art and intrinsicly beautiful in its own way, but to me, they are still largely unattractive. I've seen enough to know that I don't like them.

Just because you're in the industry doesn't make your "opinion" on design tastes any more valid than mine.

(...and for the record, when I say something has a very production look to it, it is generally in reference to cues with rounded points and inlays which I don't happen to care for. But that's just my opinion. And I'm entitled to it.)
 
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cuenut said:
You might end up losing money trying to get rid of it unless you are into it for about $1500.

Just ship them over to Taiwan, those cogs will sell for 20x it's book value.

NOT!


-Roger
 
buddha162 said:
Just ship them over to Taiwan, those cogs will sell for 20x it's book value.

NOT!


-Roger
Yeah,What happened with Lucky and cog's?
 
Thats what I said....

pharaoh68 said:
Tim-

No disrespect here, but you're saying that we can go round and round on opinion but, in fact, this thread is kinda based on opinions. Ken offered his. You sort of attacked him for it. I merely backed him up by saying "Hey! He's not the only one who thinks that!"

Ever hear the expression "One man's whiskey is another man's wine"? I think that applies here. You can argue all you want about how each Cog is a work of art and intrinsicly beautiful in its own way, but to me, they are still largely unattractive. I've seen enough to know that I don't like them.

Just because you're in the industry doesn't make your "opinion" on design tastes any more valid than mine.

(...and for the record, when I say something has a very production look to it, it is generally in reference to cues with rounded points and inlays which I don't happen to care for. But that's just my opinion. And I'm entitled to it.)



I'll try again. I am not Chicago local, and I buy several cues a year. I keep 13 at most (okay maybe a few more) and try to improve my group all the time. I have a Southwest cue, (JF era) ebony nosed, etc. I always made fun of Southwest cues because, other than changing the woods, rings, and other MINOR things they do all look the same. They may be the greatest cues of all time (I dont think so), but to compare Southwest to Gina is way off IMO. (YES I HAVE A GINA TOO). Look at the variety of cues that Ernie makes and then look at the (errr) varity of Southwest. I can say that with no regrets because, hell I own cue from both of them.

Cogs, IMO, from the variety of what I have seen on ebay, AZ and at DCC, all seem to vary very little. Again it might be that I am not a big fan of floating points made with CNC. Most point and make fun of DP cues, and yes I see too much CNC in Dales cues, at least Dale has some freaking variety.

So Skins put up a variety of designs of Cogs and I will acknowledge my HUGE mistake.

You crack me up.

Good luck to all my friends in pool,

Ken
 
pharaoh68 said:
Tim-

No disrespect here, but you're saying that we can go round and round on opinion but, in fact, this thread is kinda based on opinions. Ken offered his. You sort of attacked him for it. I merely backed him up by saying "Hey! He's not the only one who thinks that!"
none taken. as far as ken, i don't think i "attacked" him at all. but if he feels that way i apologize.

Ever hear the expression "One man's whiskey is another man's wine"? I think that applies here. You can argue all you want about how each Cog is a work of art and intrinsicly beautiful in its own way, but to me, they are still largely unattractive. I've seen enough to know that I don't like them.
your right, One man's whiskey is another man's wine, i just don't like to see opinion pushed toward fact and associate certain design elements that can really ony be done effectively with panto or cnc with "production" cues that's all.

Just because you're in the industry doesn't make your "opinion" on design tastes any more valid than mine.
your right again but being and artist and designer for many years and being subject to many criteria of cue making most never get to see, i think i have a more "trained eye" than the every day "joe" and i base my opinions on learned and non-learned criteria. that's not to say my opinion is better than anyone else's, i just think i might have a bigger bucket to pull my thoughts from that's all.

(...and for the record, when I say something has a very production look to it, it is generally in reference to cues with rounded points and inlays which I don't happen to care for. But that's just my opinion. And I'm entitled to it.)

and i value your opinion but realize that most pockets for inlays have rounded corners, production or not. the cutters mostly used in cue making are round. the more simple the pocket the easier it is to "mask" them from the inlay with same color glues or remove them with hand cutting ect.....(diamonds, lines ect..) the more intricate you get as well as the lighter the wood being pocketed doing this gets extremely difficult if not suicide to hand finish them, not to mention trying to find a buyer willing to pay what you'ld have to charge for the time involved in the cue and mistakes that could be made and potentially ruin an entire cue. there are very few makers who actually spend the time to "color glue mask" and hand cut their more intricate work (not all of it though) who's prices for their cues can get into the ten's of thousands and none of them do work simlar to Joe. i happen to think allot of work, like Joe's, looks nice with small radiuses which is what Joe and others like him use (from 10 thou to 31 thou)
 
skins said:
Tim-

No disrespect here, but you're saying that we can go round and round on opinion but, in fact, this thread is kinda based on opinions. Ken offered his. You sort of attacked him for it. I merely backed him up by saying "Hey! He's not the only one who thinks that!"
none taken. as far as ken, i don't think i "attacked" him at all. but if he feels that way i apologize.

Ever hear the expression "One man's whiskey is another man's wine"? I think that applies here. You can argue all you want about how each Cog is a work of art and intrinsicly beautiful in its own way, but to me, they are still largely unattractive. I've seen enough to know that I don't like them.
your right, One man's whiskey is another man's wine, i just don't like to see opinion pushed toward fact and associate certain design elements that can really ony be done effectively with panto or cnc with "production" cues that's all.

Just because you're in the industry doesn't make your "opinion" on design tastes any more valid than mine.
your right again but being and artist and designer for many years and being subject to many criteria of cue making most never get to see, i think i have a more "trained eye" than the every day "joe" and i base my opinions on learned and non-learned criteria. that's not to say my opinion is better than anyone else's, i just think i might have a bigger bucket to pull my thoughts from that's all.

(...and for the record, when I say something has a very production look to it, it is generally in reference to cues with rounded points and inlays which I don't happen to care for. But that's just my opinion. And I'm entitled to it.)

I have to say that I'm not completely sure I agree with the idea that being in the industry gives you more of a "trained eye" when the discussion here is taste and personal preference. You may be able to look at a design and, due to your "trained eye" you may be more capable than I to judge what is and isn't possible. But as for taste, there is no right and wrong. Its personal preference. No one can really have a leg up on someone else in that area.
 
pharaoh68 said:
I have to say that I'm not completely sure I agree with the idea that being in the industry gives you more of a "trained eye" when the discussion here is taste and personal preference. i never said that being in the industry gives be more knowledge i said "but being and artist and designer for many years and being subject to many criteria of cue making most never get to see, i think i have a more "trained eye" than the every day "joe" and i base my opinions on learned and non-learned criteria." anyone can think in their mind that any cues look production . the difference to me is what you think production means. i've experienced as much or more than anyone as far as his cues and in my thought the word "production" doesn't even come to mind.
You may be able to look at a design and, due to your "trained eye" you may be more capable than I to judge what is and isn't possible. But as for taste, there is no right and wrong. Its personal preference. No one can really have a leg up on someone else in that area.
i agree with you that once again one mans whiskey is another mans wine. i just like to think i'm more of a connoisseur of sorts.;) :D
 
Dak21st said:
Thanks everyone for the input.My next question may seem a bit odd.What would you compare the hit to,for example,Searing,Southwest,etc.I only ask to compare if I would like the hit before I spend thousands on one.I understand they are unique in their own right but they must have a feel similar to another cue even if only slightly.

IMHO a COG w/std taper (13+MM) sfts doesn't play like either SW or SEARING.

If playability is a factor it's best to test drive (if possible) before you leap.

Laying 7 to 5 SKINS doesn't get the last word....but, I'm not an expert
 
cog

I have played with alot of cues and i must say that the cog would be my choice in a cue.
If you are looking for one contact Erik Lee @ www.erikleecues.com
He has one for sale that is awesome. It is not on the website yet.
Thanx, Ron
 
> I love Joe's work,either his early stuff done on a panto,or the later CNC stuff. The cues are hard to describe to others playability wise. To me,they have about the same stiffness of older SW stuff,but are generally crisper to me. The feel is just different than most other cues I've played with. I've hit balls with a couple I didn't like,possibly because the tips were too soft for me or they were too light,one of the plain bacote cues I hit with felt like it weighed 16 oz. I've hit balls with several I damn sure wanted to buy. As far as them being a cookie cutter design,I've seen 30-40,and other than his basic cue,I've never seen 2 identical,same goes for SW. Tommy D.
 
my 2$ worth

I played with a Southwest for many years that was a bit heavy for me, after purchasing my Kersenbrock that feels perfect the Southwest went to my brother. Since then I have purchased 4 Cogs. GREAT GREAT CUE feel and balance. Still use the Kersenbrock but when I sent it to have new shafts made out of 40 + cues that I have only the Cog was used. I play at a high level and give the playability of a Cog as good as any cue out there. I also feel that in time all of the Cogs will be collectable. My oponion is you should buy one, but test the weight to make sure it is right for you. Someone mentioned the balance point, this to me is the most important part of any cue to acquire the touch and feel and Joe has this right. The first Cog I purchased hit so much like my Southwest I was surprized, then all of the others also hit the same way. I have played with allmost every cue available, Bushka, Szamboti, Scruggs, JW, Mottie, Schick, Searing Ect Ect, except for Hercek.
 
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