Combinations

[Biloxi Boy]

Everyone listen up. I don't want any of you folks wandering off and getting lost causing all of us to stop, double back, and look for you. In fact, everyone going on this walk, grab hold to this rope and don't let go . . . pay attention!

How often do we get an opportunity to shoot a combination? You know, cue ball to ball A into ball B ultimately sinking ball C? To me, these are critically important shots often producing game changing results. But as important as they are, we don't seem to ever talk about them. Are combinations something that you look for and assess, even play shapes toward, or just something that you find yourself forced into after losing control or all else fails?

Shooting through the pack in 14.1 or One Pocket is one example. Success with this type of shot seems largely dependent upon one's ability to see and recognize the pattern in interlocked balls and knowledge of how the pack will react to different forces exerted upon particular places. Shooting through clusters has always fascinated me, especially when a ball comes ripping from the group, traveling "backwards" from the direction of the stroke. (I've always told y'all that it takes very little to hold my attention.) Physical execution of these shots seems a simple matter. Their true art and challenge resides in deciphering a code whose variation or arrangement one might be seeing for the first and last time ever. But, the patterns are in there, locked in there, and you can learn to read them. I find great satisfaction in watching as the intended ball rockets into my intended pocket on greased rails.

Chasing the cheese in 9 Ball provides another classic example of combinations in action. Even though talent and knowledge are brought to bear in executing these, their attempt and accomplishment are usually met with no small amount of derision. How is it that a legal win for the cash has come to be such a bad thing?

I am sure there are other examples of routine employment of combinations in our game. Does anyone actually practice combinations? If so, what drills have you found?

 

[tim913]

I think where most players screw up is they’re so focused on making the combination that they have no leave when they make it.
For example in 9 ball they shoot the 1 into the 7 making the 7 but have no position on the 1 afterwards. You have to take care of both balls

 

[Cuebuddy]

I think where most players screw up is they’re so focused on making the combination that they have no leave when they make it.
For example in 9 ball they shoot the 1 into the 7 making the 7 but have no position on the 1 afterwards. You have to take care of both balls

On simple combos I have to take care of three balls. They are harder for me now than when I was younger. Just thinking about it too much, it seems.

 

[straightline]

I look at combos as a precision exercise. It's easy to just cinch 'em in ring games FI but you just get sloppy and tend to stay away from - and this I find dumb - "off angle" lol shots.

Long time ago a real helpful guy named Tom from the Bellflower Palace saw I was obsessed with tiny pockets and simply said "shoot combinations". Wish I had taken that to heart.

 

[gregcantrall]

Does anyone actually practice combinations? If so, what drills have you found?

You're stepped into my wheelhouse. My favorite brag of winning the race to 7 when down 6-2 involved at least 3 and possibly 4 early 9 balls. I know the last was the 15 ball. On the coin op tables we saved a quarter using all the balls available.
I practice the ball in hand situation and riding the nine. My ring game play in Bellevue in the late 80s spaned a couple of years. I played a lot of 1 and 2 ring games. Never ball in hand so I practiced carols and combinations many ways.
The gearing and friction and the changes velocity brings provides an equation that feel found in practice is Huge. The slightest variation in rotation changes the path. Speed and spin.
We had a ring game once a week that we called Whacky 9 ball. The 9 was the only money ball for a dollar. 5 handed. Rack the cueball where the 1 should be. Take the 1 to the kitchen and break with it. Hitting the cueball. Then every shot is to hit the object ball to contact the cueball first. Carom shots were the pure ist way. Go in off the white. The legend was back in aught six so and so ran all 9 that way. I didn't play the "Right Way". Splash the cash at every opportunity and finding creative ways to move the money. To me it was quite funny. They didn't like losing their money to such an uncouth method. Sheesh it was just a dollar.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Good point. You must take care of the CB and Ball A to get good shapes. And brings up an interesting concept -- runs based on combinations.

 

[Oikawa]

Some of my key observations for combos:

1. Realistic awareness of their difficulty. Even a relatively short-distance combo, unless almost dead-straight or wired, can be often missed by even top pros. Extra variables (spin transfer etc.) and a weaker intuition for aiming them than normal shots makes them even more difficult than the margin of error alone would suggest.
Answer: Shot selection. Only go for them then it is truly the smartest option.

2. Aiming them. I personally find the best method to be that I first aim the 1st OB into the 2nd OB as if the 1st OB was the CB, then memorize the point on the rail that the 1st OB needs to travel towards, giving me the target. This allows me to forget the 2nd OB entirely during my PSR. After finding this point, I adjust accordingly for spin transfer. Niels Feijen has a good video about this:

3. Visualizing the outcomes: This is also useful for safeties with multiple balls colliding with eachother, not just potting balls. It is a key skill to be able to judge the balls reactions, especially to be able to judge the range of possibilities, sensing where the balls will most likely land in for different contact angles and powers. This is a whole world, which you only learn by experience. Watch the balls, predict where you think they'll go, compare your expected outcome with the reality. Just like judging angles off the rails, this is a skill that improves the more you put effort and awareness into it.

 

[gregcantrall]

If I were to practice combinations tomorrow...I would play 9 ball. Left hand vs Right. Break as normal then for have a second cueball to place a set distance behind the other and shot the double cueball shot as a stop then do the same after the other stops. Pick up the stopped ball and do the same no mater what the shit is next.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

In the early '70s, I did a deep dive into my college library for billiard/pool books. I found several very serious books published in the '30s or '40s which focused on 14.1. As I recall, each of these contained a section on combinations. Does anyone know of any good resources? I just checked Dr. Dave and found, among others, the following:

Small-Gap Combination Shots - Dr. Dave Pool Info

"Answers to frequently-asked questions about how to aim small-gap combination (combo) shots.

billiards.colostate.edu

How to Aim Combination Shots - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about how to aim combination (combo) shots.

billiards.colostate.edu

 

[Buckzapper]

Like jump shots, I avoid combinations like the plague. It must be from playing so much 14.1 early on. I did however, learn how to pocket them and achieve a high rate of success, from Mr. Jim Rempe. I've downed quite a few tough combinations in One Pocket and each time, the shot won the rack for me. Center ball and control the speed. It sometimes backfires when you force a good shooter to go for it. Best advice; recognize a farm seller right away.

 

[Mensabum]

Like jump shots, I avoid combinations like the plague. It must be from playing so much 14.1 early on. I did however, learn how to pocket them and achieve a high rate of success, from Mr. Jim Rempe. I've downed quite a few tough combinations in One Pocket and each time, the shot won the rack for me. Center ball and control the speed. It sometimes backfires when you force a good shooter to go for it. Best advice; recognize a farm seller right away.

Agree. Good rule of thumb...
Avoid banks and combos unless you absolutely have to shoot them. And I'm a 14:1 player. Why introduce additional variables into a shot if not necessary.

 

[boogieman]

Everyone listen up. I don't want any of you folks wandering off and getting lost causing all of us to stop, double back, and look for you. In fact, everyone going on this walk, grab hold to this rope and don't let go . . . pay attention!

How often do we get an opportunity to shoot a combination? You know, cue ball to ball A into ball B ultimately sinking ball C? To me, these are critically important shots often producing game changing results. But as important as they are, we don't seem to ever talk about them. Are combinations something that you look for and assess, even play shapes toward, or just something that you find yourself forced into after losing control or all else fails?

Shooting through the pack in 14.1 or One Pocket is one example. Success with this type of shot seems largely dependent upon one's ability to see and recognize the pattern in interlocked balls and knowledge of how the pack will react to different forces exerted upon particular places. Shooting through clusters has always fascinated me, especially when a ball comes ripping from the group, traveling "backwards" from the direction of the stroke. (I've always told y'all that it takes very little to hold my attention.) Physical execution of these shots seems a simple matter. Their true art and challenge resides in deciphering a code whose variation or arrangement one might be seeing for the first and last time ever. But, the patterns are in there, locked in there, and you can learn to read them. I find great satisfaction in watching as the intended ball rockets into my intended pocket on greased rails.

Chasing the cheese in 9 Ball provides another classic example of combinations in action. Even though talent and knowledge are brought to bear in executing these, their attempt and accomplishment are usually met with no small amount of derision. How is it that a legal win for the cash has come to be such a bad thing?

I am sure there are other examples of routine employment of combinations in our game. Does anyone actually practice combinations? If so, what drills have you found?

My best advice on combos is, always protect the CB. Especially in 9B when chasing the cheese. There's nothing worse than sitting up on an early 9B combo and missing, leaving a make able shot for the next guy.

To be honest I don't practice them, and would rather never shoot them, especially on today's tight equipment. I can shoot them but I'd rather not. I do ok at them just from having hit enough of them over the years.

 

[ShootingArts]

Seems most folks shy from combinations like shying from inside english. By dodging combination shots a person doesn't learn how to shoot them so when they do need to shoot them they are uncomfortable and shoot the shot poorly.

I try to shoot the easiest shot on the table. Sometimes that is a combo or carom. I never assign a false difficulty to a shot by saying all shots of this type are hard.

I think it was Bugs that said dead balls are easier to make than they are to see. I like stealing a ball one way or another particularly in One Pocket then saying in a flat voice, "it was dead.:" Often that is a carom or combo that the other player didn't see. These shots often start a run since your opponent was confident there were no opening shots available.

I used to give moderately good players a spot playing eight ball. They played regular eight ball, I couldn't shoot anything straight in. This forced me to practice the more seldom played shots. I foolishly gave a solid player that spot and realized I had let my mouth overload my butt almost before the words were out of my mouth. For the next hour more or less I put on a display that had the counterman and every player in the room, maybe ten people or less, gather to watch.

The old nine footer wasn't tight and I was getting out in mostly one inning, sometimes two or three when I had to massage the eight ball around. I may be mistaken but I don't think I dropped a game. I never gave that player such a silly spot again. I produced my best game that day but I knew better than to think I could produce my A++ game anytime I wanted it.

That is one reason people giving a spot usually win, they aren't handicapping against their absolutely best game so they have more reserve than a lesser player that they can sometimes call on.

Hu

 

[trob]

I struggled with them since coming back playing every day. I spent about 10 mins a day shooting them For about a week. I don’t struggle with them anymore. Lol all I can say is I keep it simple. I always try stay to the center of the cue ball.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Bugs had the critical word and concept --"dead". I'd take it one step further, however, disagree with "easier to make", and go all the way to "impossible to miss". In fact, I would argue that many times a wired stack might be struck in a dozen places, with differing force and spin, and the result would always be the same.

 

[boogieman]

Bugs had the critical word and concept --"dead". I'd take it one step further, however, disagree with "easier to make", and go all the way to "impossible to miss". In fact, I would argue that many times a wired stack might be struck in a dozen places, with differing force and spin, and the result would always be the same.

When you see something wired it's best to keep a poker face. A lot of times guys don't see them and mess them up trying a break out that ends badly with missed shape. I've had people play a safe on some wired combo, then I kicked into it and made the wired ball. If you get good at manipulating kicks and the CB they are often free rolls.

Of course a lot of people see them but unless they've messed around with this type of thing, and caroms etc, they aren't even on the radar. Reading the table is a huge skill. George Fels talks some about wired balls in his Mastering Pool book. I'd have loved to see some of the stuff that happened in the stack when straight pool was king.

 

[ShootingArts]

Bugs had the critical word and concept --"dead". I'd take it one step further, however, disagree with "easier to make", and go all the way to "impossible to miss". In fact, I would argue that many times a wired stack might be struck in a dozen places, with differing force and spin, and the result would always be the same.

Some shots are a little tougher but like you say, dead balls are tougher to miss than they are to make. I just stumbled on a funny snooker set up, a real match but hard to figure how they made such a mess. The seven was in the jaws of a corner pocket or close to them. The red balls looked like they had been raked by hand and jammed in front of the seven, about ten reds! It was like a one pocket wedge game with a stinger added. The booth was talking about a rerack but they finally opened things up.

Reading the table is a huge skill.

Surely the understatement of the day! People get too focused on one area sometimes and give away the farm.

Hu

 

[Biloxi Boy]

When you see something wired it's best to keep a poker face. A lot of times guys don't see them and mess them up trying a break out that ends badly with missed shape. I've had people play a safe on some wired combo, then I kicked into it and made the wired ball. If you get good at manipulating kicks and the CB they are often free rolls.

Of course a lot of people see them but unless they've messed around with this type of thing, and caroms etc, they aren't even on the radar. Reading the table is a huge skill. George Fels talks some about wired balls in his Mastering Pool book. I'd have loved to see some of the stuff that happened in the stack when straight pool was king.

The old 14.1 cats were masters of "looking but not looking", but when you saw them dancing the dance, you best be dancing, too, because there was usually something alive in the stack that could either help or hurt. Wired 14.1 racks were different in that if it was your inning you could use one pointing in any direction but with 1P the wire had to be going your way. Timing, when to pull the trigger on a wired rack, was a big thing in 14.1 because of the accompanying break out. So, who knew what when was the question of the day.

 

[justadub]

When I first began learning how to play pool, the guy who was teaching me had a saying (he actually had many sayings, lol) "banks and combos are low percentage shots"... with the meaning to look for higher percentage shots, when possible. I still hear him in my head when shooting banks or combos.

That having been said, he could shoot both very well, when needed. His lesson was not lost on me.

I don't practice anything nearly enough, let alone combos. Had I the time to practice the way I would like to, I think some dedicated combo practice would be a good idea. For me.

 

[garczar]

A lot on a barbox but not much on the tight GC4's i usually play on. Maybe dead nut ones but nothing crazy.