Copied from a former post off AZ………..
You cannot compare Barrenruge to Fanelli. Fanelli is 3 steps higher than DB. If Fanelli sold out overseas he would get the same money. If you compare the two cues its not close. In fact 2-3 years ago when we had about 6-8 Fanelli butterflies, DB took ALOT of pics. Alot, and then his style shifted a hair. I know because I let him take the pics. Paul is such a nice guy, him, Jack Justis, and Buss are cut from the same cloth.
If Murray would come out of redneck retirement, he would be undervalued LOL. But he is popping out babies, not cues.
Joe
__________________
www.pooltablemagic.com custom cues, cases, and other pool stuff
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Greetings to all………..
After watching my name loosely tossed around like a 2 week old Krispy Kreme for the last couple years I believe it’s time I should remove the fog from a few things. It’s been kind of fun reading all the things that I have supposedly done and practices that I supposedly keep. But there seems to be a slight misconception of both. And heck Joe, I thought we were kind of in the “friend zone”. Guess that’s what I get for thinking!
If anyone has a right to be upset about any of my business practices it should be a one, Mr.Eng. Although he claims I had no remorse about not finishing a cue for him I really did say “I was sorry, but I couldn’t finish it at that time.” There were no deposits lost or money that exchanged hands. I don’t believe in deposits unless I’m building you a 31 inch butt to go with your 29 inch shafts. There were only feelings that were hurt. My experience with Mr. Eng was such that I believe him to be mature enough to let it rest and not waste any more energy on the matter. I also read where I supposedly had a similar transaction with AZ member, “Pooldoque”…..sorry for stepping on you so hard but I have absolutely no idea who you are.
Some may refer to it as “selling out”, I simply refer to it as doing business for what is in my best interest. If I am hungry, need gas to put into my vehicle, or need shelter over my head, I am the one solely responsible for getting this done. One sold cue is not going to get this done for me. I’m not going to go into specifics about my business but plain and simple, my waiting list went from 1 cue to a very long time when I supposedly “sold out”. I believe a gentleman that goes by the AZ forum name “the_truth” said it best in an older post.
copied from a former post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In this USA we do not have enough buyers to purchase the amount of wood(cues) being produced by every up and coming cuemaker.. How many cuemakers can our market support??..In turn they are forced to sell their cues to Japan or we know who "Lucky".. He will promote them and buy their cues that noone else will.. What happens is "Lucky" bails them out and we get mad when a cuemaker doesnt want to sell to us.. All of a sudden we want his product because now its only available in Japan.. WEll we didnt want his stuff before Lucky..
Lucky is capitilizing on our talent.. Why.. Japan doesnt have the cuemakers but has the buyers.. Our problem... WE have the cuemakers but not the buyers.. Thats capitalism at its best..
Only one way to alleviate this problem.. More cuemakers should have stayed machinists..
Its happening alot these days..Look at Tim Scruggs.. One of the greatest cuemakers ever.. He had a hard time selling his cues 4 years ago.. Resale market was bad on a scruggs.. AS soon as Lucky started buying his cues what happens.. USA demand goes up.. Prices go up. Wait time goes up and second hand value goes up.. Many cue makers are doing this.
Some call this "selling out" , I call this smart business for the cuemakers.. Why should they worry about the guys over here who never bought their cues before Lucky..
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I do have a few things to comment on though……..I wasn’t “forced” to sell my cues to an overseas buyer. I chose to do this on my own and don’t regret it for one second. From the time the proposal was presented to me I only took 2 years to make my decision to do this but during those 2 years I don’t recall any other cue dealers offering to spend any money on advertising my product on a monthly or even a bi-monthly basis by either taking out full page color ads in some of the well known billiards magazines in the country or even just printing a full colored flyer and sending it to over 1500 potent ional customers every single month. Shoot, I don’t even recall any cue dealers offering to purchase every or ANY for that matter, cues that I don’t sell myself. What I do recall though is, and I do apologize this is where my memory does get a little clouded, it was either 2 or 3….maybe 4 cue dealers trying to beat me down like a blonde headed rag doll, telling me I was out of my mind and I could never sell my cues at the prices I was asking(in 2001-2004 era) because I was an “unknown”.
Heck, I still hear that on occasion today but it doesn’t bother me like it did back then for some reason! Last but not last…………I don’t even recall any cue dealers offering to spend any of their money advertising my products on the world wide web in 2 different languages. I would even be willing to wager (just a play with words, I don’t gamble, I only take educated chances) that one could call to just about any pool room in Tokyo and not only can they spell my name correctly….they pronounce it correctly also.
Now don’t misunderstand……..My point here is not to tear down US cue dealers….I’m just relaying my past experiences and what helped mold my decisions.
Joe, I believe your correct about one thing……Barenbrugge and Fanelli cues do not compare. I commend your loyalty to Paul, but only 3 steps higher? If I were Paul, I’d be upset. I would guess his work, in the right hands overseas, could command far more than it would in the states. I’ve never met the man but greatly admire his style and execution of wood working techniques. Just to clarify one thing though…..I did do a little research in my files and it was Valley Forge 2003 when we spoke at your booth about taking pictures of Paul’s cues. I’m not sure what you classify as “ALOT” but I took 4 pictures of his cues, 2 of 3 different butt sleeves and 2 of the same 3 forearms for my records, and if I forgot to say “Thank you” consider it belated.
I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say, ”then his style shifted a hair”. But if you believe I am intentionally now trying to copy someone else’s designs, I have to say, I believe you to be mistaken. I have made a few minor changes to my basic design, style over the years (i.e. Shortened my fore piece and lengthened my back ends…shortened butt and joint collars from the gaudy looking long ones. But tell me one cue maker that hasn’t made some minor changes to his or her format from the first cues they have made?
Need I also remind you of the conversation we had at the same time I was taking the pictures about me be asked to do a “copy” of Paul’s work? And my reply was “absolutely not”. I have no reason or intention of it. Why would I want to change my style or designs? I know butters have been around long before we graced the earth but correct me if I wrong………and I have been on occasion……but I don’t believe you will find any butterflies made on a regular basis by anyone previous to mine that look like my forearm style that I use. (butters over the points instead of between them) For anyone that has made this style prior to myself, I apologize for claiming it mine and will stand to be corrected. Granted, I do some variations of different designs but I believe my style is pretty distinct. Now, I have seen a few others make copies of my forearm style and my hats off to them as very few people understand how difficult and time consuming they are to produce. I believe we all detest doing copies of other cue designs but intentional or unintentional let’s face it………..it was a part of building cues before our times, during our times, and it’s going to be after our times also. Original, hand crafted, designs in cue building are not that easy to come up with.
Besides, it’s all about the ring work, the butters are just a bi-product!
Hope this clears any misconceptions anyone may have had or may have in the future. And even though we have talked a very limited introduction I still consider you in my “friend zone”, Joe.
I’ll see you all at Valley Forge and I’ll try to remember to leave my camera in the room, but I doubt it, I am getting older.
Sincerely,
Dave
Barenbrugge Cues, Inc.
http://www.barenbrugge-cues.com
http://www.ilovecues.com
You cannot compare Barrenruge to Fanelli. Fanelli is 3 steps higher than DB. If Fanelli sold out overseas he would get the same money. If you compare the two cues its not close. In fact 2-3 years ago when we had about 6-8 Fanelli butterflies, DB took ALOT of pics. Alot, and then his style shifted a hair. I know because I let him take the pics. Paul is such a nice guy, him, Jack Justis, and Buss are cut from the same cloth.
If Murray would come out of redneck retirement, he would be undervalued LOL. But he is popping out babies, not cues.
Joe
__________________
www.pooltablemagic.com custom cues, cases, and other pool stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Greetings to all………..
After watching my name loosely tossed around like a 2 week old Krispy Kreme for the last couple years I believe it’s time I should remove the fog from a few things. It’s been kind of fun reading all the things that I have supposedly done and practices that I supposedly keep. But there seems to be a slight misconception of both. And heck Joe, I thought we were kind of in the “friend zone”. Guess that’s what I get for thinking!
If anyone has a right to be upset about any of my business practices it should be a one, Mr.Eng. Although he claims I had no remorse about not finishing a cue for him I really did say “I was sorry, but I couldn’t finish it at that time.” There were no deposits lost or money that exchanged hands. I don’t believe in deposits unless I’m building you a 31 inch butt to go with your 29 inch shafts. There were only feelings that were hurt. My experience with Mr. Eng was such that I believe him to be mature enough to let it rest and not waste any more energy on the matter. I also read where I supposedly had a similar transaction with AZ member, “Pooldoque”…..sorry for stepping on you so hard but I have absolutely no idea who you are.
Some may refer to it as “selling out”, I simply refer to it as doing business for what is in my best interest. If I am hungry, need gas to put into my vehicle, or need shelter over my head, I am the one solely responsible for getting this done. One sold cue is not going to get this done for me. I’m not going to go into specifics about my business but plain and simple, my waiting list went from 1 cue to a very long time when I supposedly “sold out”. I believe a gentleman that goes by the AZ forum name “the_truth” said it best in an older post.
copied from a former post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In this USA we do not have enough buyers to purchase the amount of wood(cues) being produced by every up and coming cuemaker.. How many cuemakers can our market support??..In turn they are forced to sell their cues to Japan or we know who "Lucky".. He will promote them and buy their cues that noone else will.. What happens is "Lucky" bails them out and we get mad when a cuemaker doesnt want to sell to us.. All of a sudden we want his product because now its only available in Japan.. WEll we didnt want his stuff before Lucky..
Lucky is capitilizing on our talent.. Why.. Japan doesnt have the cuemakers but has the buyers.. Our problem... WE have the cuemakers but not the buyers.. Thats capitalism at its best..
Only one way to alleviate this problem.. More cuemakers should have stayed machinists..
Its happening alot these days..Look at Tim Scruggs.. One of the greatest cuemakers ever.. He had a hard time selling his cues 4 years ago.. Resale market was bad on a scruggs.. AS soon as Lucky started buying his cues what happens.. USA demand goes up.. Prices go up. Wait time goes up and second hand value goes up.. Many cue makers are doing this.
Some call this "selling out" , I call this smart business for the cuemakers.. Why should they worry about the guys over here who never bought their cues before Lucky..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I do have a few things to comment on though……..I wasn’t “forced” to sell my cues to an overseas buyer. I chose to do this on my own and don’t regret it for one second. From the time the proposal was presented to me I only took 2 years to make my decision to do this but during those 2 years I don’t recall any other cue dealers offering to spend any money on advertising my product on a monthly or even a bi-monthly basis by either taking out full page color ads in some of the well known billiards magazines in the country or even just printing a full colored flyer and sending it to over 1500 potent ional customers every single month. Shoot, I don’t even recall any cue dealers offering to purchase every or ANY for that matter, cues that I don’t sell myself. What I do recall though is, and I do apologize this is where my memory does get a little clouded, it was either 2 or 3….maybe 4 cue dealers trying to beat me down like a blonde headed rag doll, telling me I was out of my mind and I could never sell my cues at the prices I was asking(in 2001-2004 era) because I was an “unknown”.
Heck, I still hear that on occasion today but it doesn’t bother me like it did back then for some reason! Last but not last…………I don’t even recall any cue dealers offering to spend any of their money advertising my products on the world wide web in 2 different languages. I would even be willing to wager (just a play with words, I don’t gamble, I only take educated chances) that one could call to just about any pool room in Tokyo and not only can they spell my name correctly….they pronounce it correctly also.
Now don’t misunderstand……..My point here is not to tear down US cue dealers….I’m just relaying my past experiences and what helped mold my decisions.
Joe, I believe your correct about one thing……Barenbrugge and Fanelli cues do not compare. I commend your loyalty to Paul, but only 3 steps higher? If I were Paul, I’d be upset. I would guess his work, in the right hands overseas, could command far more than it would in the states. I’ve never met the man but greatly admire his style and execution of wood working techniques. Just to clarify one thing though…..I did do a little research in my files and it was Valley Forge 2003 when we spoke at your booth about taking pictures of Paul’s cues. I’m not sure what you classify as “ALOT” but I took 4 pictures of his cues, 2 of 3 different butt sleeves and 2 of the same 3 forearms for my records, and if I forgot to say “Thank you” consider it belated.
I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say, ”then his style shifted a hair”. But if you believe I am intentionally now trying to copy someone else’s designs, I have to say, I believe you to be mistaken. I have made a few minor changes to my basic design, style over the years (i.e. Shortened my fore piece and lengthened my back ends…shortened butt and joint collars from the gaudy looking long ones. But tell me one cue maker that hasn’t made some minor changes to his or her format from the first cues they have made?
Need I also remind you of the conversation we had at the same time I was taking the pictures about me be asked to do a “copy” of Paul’s work? And my reply was “absolutely not”. I have no reason or intention of it. Why would I want to change my style or designs? I know butters have been around long before we graced the earth but correct me if I wrong………and I have been on occasion……but I don’t believe you will find any butterflies made on a regular basis by anyone previous to mine that look like my forearm style that I use. (butters over the points instead of between them) For anyone that has made this style prior to myself, I apologize for claiming it mine and will stand to be corrected. Granted, I do some variations of different designs but I believe my style is pretty distinct. Now, I have seen a few others make copies of my forearm style and my hats off to them as very few people understand how difficult and time consuming they are to produce. I believe we all detest doing copies of other cue designs but intentional or unintentional let’s face it………..it was a part of building cues before our times, during our times, and it’s going to be after our times also. Original, hand crafted, designs in cue building are not that easy to come up with.
Besides, it’s all about the ring work, the butters are just a bi-product!
Hope this clears any misconceptions anyone may have had or may have in the future. And even though we have talked a very limited introduction I still consider you in my “friend zone”, Joe.
I’ll see you all at Valley Forge and I’ll try to remember to leave my camera in the room, but I doubt it, I am getting older.
Sincerely,
Dave
Barenbrugge Cues, Inc.
http://www.barenbrugge-cues.com
http://www.ilovecues.com
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