Conceding at Derby City

Sadly, pro pool players don't view themselves as entertainers indebted to the viewers that, ultimately, pay their wages.

Quitting in most sports encounters brings shame. It was in 1980 that Roberto Duran said "no mas" and quit mid-match in his bout with Sugar Ray Leonard and we're still talking about it. Even in his own country, Duran's image took a nosedive and he lost many of his endorsements.

Sports fans don't like it when the players they follow "give up." One day, pro pool players, as a group, will agree. Until then, they must drop the rhetoric about being the equals of those playing other sports and worthy of similar compensation.

Let's hope the 49ers and Chiefs don't decide to "chop" and share the NFL championship instead of playing the Super Bowl. Oh wait, NFL players understand their indebtedness to their fans, so we probably don't need to worry about football players shortchanging those who follow the sport.
I understand, and certainly respect your opinion/s here SJM. That being said, the 49'ers/Chiefs, are only playing 4 quarters, not 4 to 5 days. As far as Duran goes, I've heard tale that he was suffering from food poising at the time that he uttered "no mas," on top of getting punched in the liver, and the face. You also have to look at the pay disparity, between the other sports/entertainment avenues that you've mentioned here, and pool. To my knowledge, none of the other professional athletes in these other sports are required to pay their own entry fees either. Again, no particular argument...Just offering some additional food for thought.
;)
 
ill give a little example of a good reason to concede.

you are playing someone you know will beat you and he leads by a decent amount of games.
and you look over on the action table and there is a good easy ring game going with say only one open spot.
why not concede and go over to where you can make more money for your time.

and a tournament is a game of rules and unless the rules say you cant concede or drop out then it is within the rules you are playing under.
 
That being said, the 49'ers/Chiefs, are only playing 4 quarters, not 4 to 5 days.
Actually, they've been playing about six days a week since August. Honestly, I don't know how they endure it.
As far as Duran goes, I've heard tale that he was suffering from food poising at the time that he uttered "no mas," on top of getting punched in the liver, and the face.
Whether the media got the story right or not, the truth remains that Duran's fans were upset with him, evidencing my statement that fans don't easily forgive those they perceive to have quit on them. Those in Duran's corner did not publicly offer any extenuating circumstances at the time. Perhaps they should have.
 
Actually, they've been playing about six days a week since August. Honestly, I don't know how they endure it.
I think it has something to do with the quality of the drugs, and the umpteen million dollars that they make a year. ;)
Whether the media got the story right or not, the truth remains that Duran's fans were upset with him, evidencing my statement that fans don't easily forgive those they perceive to have quit on them. Those in Duran's corner did not publicly offer any extenuating circumstances at the time. Perhaps they should have.
Agreed.
 
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Sadly, pro pool players don't view themselves as entertainers indebted to the viewers that, ultimately, pay their wages.

Quitting in most sports encounters brings shame. It was in 1980 that Roberto Duran said "no mas" and quit mid-match in his bout with Sugar Ray Leonard and we're still talking about it. Even in his own country, Duran's image took a nosedive and he lost many of his endorsements.

Sports fans don't like it when the players they follow "give up." One day, pro pool players, as a group, will agree. Until then, they must drop the rhetoric about being the equals of those playing other sports and worthy of similar compensation.

Let's hope the 49ers and Chiefs don't decide to "chop" and share the NFL championship instead of playing the Super Bowl. Oh wait, NFL players understand their indebtedness to their fans, so we probably don't need to worry about football players shortchanging those who follow the sport.
Did any of those players play for 20 hours straight like he did lol none of that is the same as pool. This isn’t a pro event. people didn’t pay 10 grand a seat like they did in the Super Bowl this week . It’s not even close to being the same thing. He didn’t owe anyone anything. He was physically exhausted and forfeited. It’s not a big deal except to pool players who need something to bitch about.

Btw nba players are now just taking personal days and just not playing because they are tired. And those people paid a hell of a lot more to see them play then pool fans do.
 
Did any of those players play for 20 hours straight like he did lol none of that is the same as pool. This isn’t a pro event. people didn’t pay 10 grand a seat like they did in the Super Bowl this week . It’s not even close to being the same thing. He didn’t owe anyone anything. He was physically exhausted and forfeited. It’s not a big deal except to pool players who need something to bitch about.

Btw nba players are now just taking personal days and just not playing because they are tired. And those people paid a hell of a lot more to see them play then pool fans do.
Here's my post from another thread on the subject of Shaw's concession, upon which it seems we agree.

Considered in a vacuum, no pro should ever quit in the middle in of a match. But this match took place in the wee hours of the morning when everyone was out of gas and yawning. Jayson fell behind 5-0 to a guy who had been in dead stroke all week and probably reckoned he no longer had the energy or spirit to continue. I was surprised by his mid-match concession, but he gets a pass from me. Diamond has to find a way to put an end to these matches that take place after most have gone to sleep. Pool shouldn't be about who can play when they are under-rested, but Diamond has turned the 9ball event into just that.
This thread, however, generalizes the subject of concession, and I've taken note that sports fans don't generally take it well when their favorites quit on them.

As for your NBA comment, this is one reason I don't ever go to regular season NBA games.
 
It seem to me, that the issue at DCC is potentially one of format. Expecting these players to play for X number of hours in a row, can't be an enjoyable experience for them, or the fans. In the "old" days, SOME of these folks/players would be jacked up on amphetamines, cocaine, booze, or a combination of God knows what, in order to achieve seemingly inhuman feats of longevity at the table. In the long run, that isn't good for anyone.

Think about the reasons for any sports popularity, or lack thereof these days. It generally revolves around attention span. Golf, baseball etc, all suffer to some degree from the curse of "who the hell has all day for this crap?" Even local poolroom tournaments suffer participation issues from "older" players, because they just don't want to be out until 2 a.m., in order to compete, should they be fortunate enough to advance deep into the tourney. I'm probably combining a few different threads worth of rant here, so I offer my apologies.

In the case of Frost, Shaw, etc, it's hard to say. It could have been exhaustion, illness, etc...Sometimes you just realize that it isn't your day, and that you're being thoroughly beaten. That being said, I'm not suggesting that anyone concede, I'm just offering opinions. It's a tough call. Perhaps Shaw/Frost just felt themselves coming unglued, and decided that a gentlemanly concession was better than an epic, anger filled meltdown. Who truly knows what someone else is feeling at the time that they choose their path?
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I agree with this, but to be fair, it looks like Frost didn't do anything but concede the last game. Apparently the score was wrong on the video. I don't want get something like that wrong about any player.
 
I agree with this, but to be fair, it looks like Frost didn't do anything but concede the last game. Apparently the score was wrong on the video. I don't want get something like that wrong about any player.
Someone did bring that to my attention. If that is accurate, I will gladly stand corrected, with regards to Mr. Frost. At the time I made the/my post, I was going off of my understanding of the situation.
Best regards
j2
 
I agree with this, but to be fair, it looks like Frost didn't do anything but concede the last game. Apparently the score was wrong on the video. I don't want get something like that wrong about any player.

Yeah, things change a whole lot with the score change. Frost quitting midset with a real chance of a comeback even if remote is one thing, ceding the last couple balls of a duck shoot is a whole 'nuther story. Frost granting a two ball tap in finish of the last game brings it down to a common as dirt activity. Just a matter of respect to accept the other player is out.

We all based our posts on "facts". When the facts turn out to be wrong a lot of what we said was wrong. Quitting midset, that smacks of a lot of things, granting the last ball or two of a duck run, routine.

Looks like an inaccurate score board was the only story here.

Hu
 
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This is the old argument that one often hears from the players, which is "when I make more money, I'll present and conduct myself with more respect for my sport." Unfortunately, this is circular logic, for until they present and conduct themselves with more respect for their sport, they will continue to scare off many of those who might help fill their pockets.

Pay them more and you'll fix their image is no business plan at all. Get them to present themselves with greater respect for their sport so that pool becomes more marketable is a business plan.
Well, yeah, goes without saying...

I'm talking more of the players who are currently carving themselves out an actual career in pool, using social media as a large part of that, and who are carefully curating their online presence. For some reason I cannot imagine hearing that argument coming from the likes of Fedor Gorst, Jasmine Ouschan, Tyler Styer, etc...
 
Well, yeah, goes without saying...

I'm talking more of the players who are currently carving themselves out an actual career in pool, using social media as a large part of that, and who are carefully curating their online presence. For some reason I cannot imagine hearing that argument coming from the likes of Fedor Gorst, Jasmine Ouschan, Tyler Styer, etc...
Yes, well said. We cannot generalize here, but the issue remains that there are many who see things that way, and pool players need to police themselves more diligently because each one that is lax about self-presentation and behavior reinforces the negative stereotypes that pro pool is trying to evolve past.
 
All pro athletes have pressures. Unlike the bigger sports, pool does not have a standard development system for its players.

Chopping a championship makes sense in individual sports like distance running.

Some players are from gambling dens others are from govt sponsored programs. The same sport but the end product or player is developed for different purposes.

A sponsor pays the team to compete individually then if a member wins the team chops.

Pool is unclear because the source of funding varies wildly by player. Sometimes players have mutual defense alliances for minimizing travel costs.
 
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