Concept from the book: The Outlier

[Paul Dayton]

I suspect that the 10,000 hour time was meant only to say that a really serious amount of time is required for someone to really reach the peak of their skills. The practice would have to be properely structured, the lessons well planned and the discipline fully maintained

10,000 hours of banging balls will make you an expert ball banger.

In the end talent will win out. All factors equal except talent and the more talented wins.

 

[JCIN]

Depends on the definition of expert. At 10,000+ hours, a person of average intelligence will likely have an expert understanding of virtually any skill (exclude such outliers as theoretical physics and neuro-surgery)...whether or not that understanding can be taught is debatable. But upon completing 10,000 hours of monotonous practice, it is hard to argue that one would not have achieved an expert level of knowledge. Again, this depends on your definition of "expert."


Edit: I have achieved the 10,000 hours required in the subject of debate....what does that make me?

Nope. I disagree.

You can practice something wrong for 10,000 hours and when that time is over you can still do it wrong.

I used to shoot IPSC and got pretty good pretty fast. I searched out instruction from people with a proven track record. That cut years off of my development. Before long I was finishing higher than guys who had been in the game for 10 years because they were still trying to do the same things they had been doing when they started 10 years ago.

10,000 hours is not that long for a "professional" anything. In my mind being a professional means that is how you make your living and something you work at consistently to develop and improve.

10,000 hours = 250 forty hour weeks

That is 5 years with 2 weeks off a year. For some skills I would say that is entirely too much and for others not even close to being an expert. It all depends.

Besides when it comes to competition being an expert at the actual game is only the beginning. A very good player once told me the secret to pool:

First you have to learn to make balls

Then you have to learn how to play.

Then you have to learn how to win.

I think most anyone can get the first two down with time and some basic aptitude. The third one is what separates the good from the great.

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,

Please define expert and please define practice....without these two definitions, this argument is useless. I also think the skill in question is important to consider, for example...

I do not need to study multiplication tables in excess of 10,000 hours to become an expert arithmatician. Also, practicing multiplication tables in excess of 10,000 hours will not define me as an expert mathematician.

Another example: I can swim for 10,000+ hours and I will never ever ever achieve the level of efficiency required by "expert" swimmers. I am quite certain that people such as Carl Lewis did not spend in excess of 10,000 hours running and jumping to reach the world class level.

"Expert" is subjective but would, in pool, be someone who could kick most everyone's azz at will. Pro level play is how I see it. "Practice" means hitting balls, not just watching or reading or whatever.

I tried goggling 'Lewis' and my computer died so I'm rewriting this without a link. You'd probably be surprised at how much time Lewis put in running and jumping. Let us know if you find any info about that, OK?

Read the book if you have a few spare hours. It explains your questions, is an easy read, and has enough new info to keep you interested throughout. It applies to much more than just pool.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I suspect that the 10,000 hour time was meant only to say that a really serious amount of time is required for someone to really reach the peak of their skills. The practice would have to be properely structured, the lessons well planned and the discipline fully maintained

10,000 hours of banging balls will make you an expert ball banger.

In the end talent will win out. All factors equal except talent and the more talented wins.

In the end talent will NOT win out....not without some other influences helping direct that talent.

Did you know that half of all the talented hockey players in Canada don't reach the highest levels? The book addresses why this is so.

As I read the comments here, I ask you to read the book if you can. It addresses many of the concerns brought up here.

Jeff Livingston

PS I make no money from this book and am only recommending it to pool players as a way to improve their shots and add happiness to their games.

 

[chefjeff]

(snip). A very good player once told me the secret to pool:

First you have to learn to make balls

Then you have to learn how to play.

Then you have to learn how to win.

I think most anyone can get the first two down with time and some basic aptitude. The third one is what separates the good from the great.

If you practiced winning* for 10,000 hours you'd know how to do that.

Jeff Livingston

* Practicing winning involves practice alone with a different mindset and hitting the bricks for action, etc. It would be a lot harder to practice that particular discipline for 10,000 hours than simply shooting balls in your basement for 5 years. But I bet the same formula applies. Like I said in the original post, more study is needed to know for sure how this concept applies to pool.

 

[chefjeff]

If one were to create a workout plan to reach the expert level in pool, I'm wondering how many hours of the 10,000 could be study hours and how many practice hours and how many competing hours.

Also, I'm thinking that the learning curve would jump up to an above-average level nearer the beginning and slowly flatten out as time and practice goes on. So, 1000 hours would put a player up to, say, the 95% level but it could take another 9000 hours to reach expert level from there. Perhaps that's why players slow down: they reached an acceptable level of play and lose motivation for going on to the expert level. Comments?

I'm also thinkiing that if even BAD practice is done for 10,000 hours, that badness is overcome by repetition. That is, the brain, regardless of technique figures out how to pot balls and get shape. I'm thinking of Keith's weird style as one example here of great play coming from hours of doing it "wrong."

I'm interested in hearing more from anyone who has actually done 10,000 hours of pool.

Jeff Livingston

 

[tigerseye]

I was told if you miss it then set it up again and make it 10 times in a row then move on til you miss another....That's what Efren told me, but what does he know huh? lol...=))