Consciously or Subconsciously?

[Zims Rack]

When you are playing a game, are you playing consciously or subconsciouslyl? Do you know how to turn the conscious off and the subconscious on? We all like to hit "deadstroke", right? What if it was like a switch, deadstroke on, deadstroke off! When you're looking at the table thinking about your next shot, how do you know that it's time to execute the shot, how do you know when it's time to stroke, to stand up and think about the next shot?

Food for thought!
Zim

 

[Matt26]

When you are playing a game, are you playing consciously or subconsciouslyl? Do you know how to turn the conscious off and the subconscious on? We all like to hit "deadstroke", right? What if it was like a switch, deadstroke on, deadstroke off! When you're looking at the table thinking about your next shot, how do you know that it's time to execute the shot, how do you know when it's time to stroke, to stand up and think about the next shot?

When I'm playing good, I don't analyze it too hard. I'll study the spread to see what goes where......and then it just kicks into automatic. The pre-shot routine, aiming/lining up/stroking/execution just all kicks into play. You don't think about that stuff. You just zone in on where to hit the object ball to pocket it..and where you want to move to rock, and shoot like you can't miss. You've got to have confidence in yourself too, or it'll be hard to get into deadstroke very often. This kind of thing comes with years and years of practice, and matching up.

 

[Zims Rack]

Nice Post Matt! I've found that switch that shuts deadstroke on/off! If trained correctly mentally/physically, it can be learned and applied quickly and not over years.

Zim

 

[cut shot]

Howdy Zim... Its kind of like auto-pilot for me when I am in the Zone! When I am not in the Zone, I still shoot ok, but I start to think too much about what I am doing and it throws my game off somewhat. Two good examples are Luc Salvis and Charlie Williams. If you watch them as they shoot real fast so as to not allow the thoughts to come in. Hope this helps!

When you are playing a game, are you playing consciously or subconsciouslyl? Do you know how to turn the conscious off and the subconscious on? We all like to hit "deadstroke", right? What if it was like a switch, deadstroke on, deadstroke off! When you're looking at the table thinking about your next shot, how do you know that it's time to execute the shot, how do you know when it's time to stroke, to stand up and think about the next shot?

Food for thought!
Zim

 

[Matt26]

Nice Post Matt! I've found that switch that shuts deadstroke on/off! If trained correctly mentally/physically, it can be learned and applied quickly and not over years.

Zim

Some people play better when they break things down and analyze them..and then practice that. Others, play better just by feel and repetition. I trained with Jimmy Reid, and that guy can break things down like he's pouring over your game with a microscope. I'm more of a "lets get to the point kind of guy." Maybe I'm just hard headed and have to learn things the hard way...but I learned to play and progess just by feeling my way along..and then copying what better players did...copying and adjusting to suit me at least. The better I pocketted balls, the more confidence I gained in myself, the easier I could find deadstroke. It also helped to get the mentality that you are playing the table and not an opponent. Just do your best against the table...and you can do pretty good. Your opponent can't physically stop you from executing or playing safe accurately..so just focus positively on what the table offers. This goes back to helping your confidence and keeping you in stroke or deadstroke.

What is your technique? Sounds like you might have some good info to relay.

 

[biGhuK]

It's hard to say in my case. At times, I can run rack after rack and not miss which when i'm in this kind of mind state I can actually see before i even pull the trigger the cueball contacting the object ball and the object ball falling in the pocket. And it's funny because I won't see it subconisouly unless I'm in perfect aim on the object ball. This is probably about 2 seconds. When i'm in this mindstate I also don't even think about aiming. I just get down on the ball and I know that it's there. I take one quick look at it get on the table and right after my warmup strokes I see the object ball falling into the pocket and all I do is pull the trigger.

I'm really kind of torn about this because I do play really well when I'm in that mindstate but I do play very carelessly and I do overlook somethings and my stroke does deviate a bit. After a while my stroke will have fallen apart and i'll miss a ball. Then i'm back to square one again. But i'm rattled so much that I fall out of that mindstate.

 

[BAZARUS]

Important is to have good fundamentals and variety of skills, like pocketing, position play etc. The better player you are the better chance do you have to get in deadstroke. Someone mentioned about Charlie W. & Luc S. The way they play very offten cost them games and matches, because they play to fast and don't take their time on thinking when nessesary. Now lets look at Ralf S. I don't belive I've ever saw him in a deadstroke. He is metodical, he checks every possible angles before execution and his results speaks for himself.

 

[sjm]

Important is to have good fundamentals and variety of skills, like pocketing, position play etc. The better player you are the better chance do you have to get in deadstroke. Someone mentioned about Charlie W. & Luc S. The way they play very offten cost them games and matches, because they play to fast and don't take their time on thinking when nessesary. Now lets look at Ralf S. I don't belive I've ever saw him in a deadstroke. He is metodical, he checks every possible angles before execution and his results speaks for himself.

Agreed, Bazarus. I think that playing subconsciously, largely on instinct and feel, is possible at times, yet only development of one's fundamentals and refinement of one's skills can bring one closer to a state where they could play this way and still make good decisions.

In the end, there is no substitue for careful planning and studious shot selection at the pool table. It's not, however, fair to generalize by saying that fast players are necessarily being inattentive to details in planning, but I suspect the majority of them are.

Though playing subconsciously might, at times, help one stay mentally right and help one with visulaization and execution of the shots they select, my sense is that it will, ultimately, get in the way of superior conceptualization.

In the end, it's about a tradeoff. The methodical, careful planning of a Souquet surely helps his overall shot conceptualization, but it may cost him something by making it harder for him to find the zone, which is, at least in part, based on a steady rhythm. Then again, as you said, his results speak volumes.

 

[CaptainJR]

Consciously or Subconsciously? No question hear I play subconsciously and to many times my subconscious is full of bologna. I have started a thread a while back where we discussed concentration. When I concentrate I play better. When I don't concentrate my subconscious takes over and before you know it, I'm in trouble. That's just me though. I have to consciously execute every shot.

 

[Bluewolf]

When you are playing a game, are you playing consciously or subconsciouslyl? Do you know how to turn the conscious off and the subconscious on? We all like to hit "deadstroke", right? What if it was like a switch, deadstroke on, deadstroke off! When you're looking at the table thinking about your next shot, how do you know that it's time to execute the shot, how do you know when it's time to stroke, to stand up and think about the next shot?

Food for thought!
Zim

According to Randy G 'standing =thinking'. He taught us a switch, right before we got down on the shot, so that the execution side of the brain would take over (when down on the shot) and the other side with all of its babble would be quiet.

Laura

 

[breakup]

The Inner Game of Tennis by W. Timothy Gallwey

is still a must read for this subject he also has a website

http://www.theinnergame.com

I don't know about his other inner game books that came later

cheers

 

[larrynj1]

there's gonna be a lot of zen buddhist monks who are gonna be real upset when they find out there's an on/off switch.

 

[Purdman]

The Switch

I believe Laura was talking about switching the analytical side of your brain off and letting the creative side take over. Most of your decision making is done with the analytical side while standind up. The switch can be something as simple as putting the chaulk on the table. A lot of pros have a switch. Then the creative side takes over. I try and explain it like this. I can teach you to dance. I can say, "Put your right foot foreward and then bring it back. Now do it with the left foot. Now repeat the steps." Now when you can do this effortlessly, get creative. Move your hips, and arms. Get in the grove and move. Go for it, now you are dancing. Not just putting one foot in front of the other. That is what makes us differant. See it, hear it, feel it. Then do it.
Purdman

 

[JPB]

When you are playing a game, are you playing consciously or subconsciouslyl? Do you know how to turn the conscious off and the subconscious on? We all like to hit "deadstroke", right? What if it was like a switch, deadstroke on, deadstroke off! When you're looking at the table thinking about your next shot, how do you know that it's time to execute the shot, how do you know when it's time to stroke, to stand up and think about the next shot?

Food for thought!
Zim

After all the inner game zen psych stuff I have read about pool and golf and other things, and a dose of philosophy and epistemolgy, I don't think we really know. I think the "conscious/subconscious" split is a false one. The essence of human existence is that we are beings of volitional consciousness. That said, not all of our mental functions take place in linguistic centers in our brain. Language is the way our logical minds apply reason, which is the hallmark of the human, but our minds are multi faceted and process information quickly in ways that don't use language or an easily apparent language based logical sequence. I think when people talk about the subconscious they are talking about cognitive centers that aren't language oriented. So they see and process patterns in their mind quickly with no apparent effort. However, it is just your conscious mind working in a different way I think. My ideas on this are still developing and I don't know for sure. I am comfortable in saying that you play both "consciously" and "subconsciously". It is impossible to do anything without consciousness. What consciousness means is a long involved debate in itsellf. Anyway, there is no real mind/body split IMO, and no real conscious/subconscious split IMO. We play with our minds and should get comfortable in a rational, conscious mind that can apprecite its non linguistic "automatic" aspects. I used to think zen ideas would help, but I don't think so any more. Don't trust anything that wants to empty your mind or shut it off. Learn control, or ceding control from one aspect of your mind to another, but don't distrust your mind or consciousness. To do so is to try to deny your existence. Now if I could really do this or formulate a coherent theory about this, I might be able to run 4 whole balls.

 

[BAZARUS]

I'd explain the on/off switch like that:
if you are a "B" or "C" player you may occasional get into a deadstroke and put together couple of racks, or have a fantastic week. That switch may not work for you, because you didn't master the game enough.
If you are a "A" or Pro player you can use this switch anytime. If you want to turn it off you will look much like Ralf S. or Allison F., metodicall, strictly professional, thinking about every little detail. If you want to turn it on you will be looking closer to Earl S., Luc S., Charlie W., playing fast, on intuition and feeling learned through years of practicing without thinking to much.

I do this very offten durring practice - sometimes I think carefully about everything, the other time I just let it go and let the subconscious take it over, trying to get into a nice, smooth rhythm of the game. Try it yourself and you will find out which way you doing better.

 

[Rude Dog]

Ahh, the "on-off" switch. When I get in stroke, it feels as though a switch has been turned on and everything is so clear about the game. Nothing around me can bother me and I stay in stroke for quite awhile. Now, when I'm not in stroke, that damn switch is nowhere to be found! I play fast and loose when I'm playing good, free-wheeling is what some may call it. When I slow down to think, I get out of rythym. Study long, study wrong. Sometimes when I miss, even though I'm playing good, I've thought to myself, "slow down dammit". But I know that's not the answer. I can play as fast as I want as long as I committ to the shot. If I get down on the shot before I'm ready to fire, then I'm screwed. That's what seperates the top players from the rest of us, they committ to the shot before they get down. Well, that, and cuz they're good, LOL. Hell, I don't know what I'm talking about, I just felt like typing again. I think I'll go hit some balls for an hour or 2. Peace to everyone!

 

[JustPlay]

............
If you are a "A" or Pro player you can use this switch anytime. If you want to turn it off you will look much like Ralf S. or Allison F., metodicall, strictly professional, thinking about every little detail. If you want to turn it on you will be looking closer to Earl S., Luc S., Charlie W., playing fast, on intuition and feeling learned through years of practicing without thinking to much.

I do this very offten durring practice - sometimes I think carefully about everything, the other time I just let it go and let the subconscious take it over, trying to get into a nice, smooth rhythm of the game. Try it yourself and you will find out which way you doing better.[/QUOTE]


Bazarus

You make some interesting comparisons Strickland to Souquet and I have to say (after watching both on accu stats recently) comparing those two are excellent examples. Strickland as well as CJ Wiley and Dennis Hatch are natural players who play with a subconscious level and there are few players like them. They don't fret about much else other than pocketing balls. Souquet and Varner (as examples) are the kind of players who have to work on a more conscious level to play well, Just watch how they play each shot. I wonder also if it because a conscious minded player plays more one pocket and straight pool as compared to a primarily 9-ball player, just a thought...

 

[BAZARUS]

Originally posted by JustPlay
You make some interesting comparisons Strickland to Souquet and I have to say (after watching both on accu stats recently) comparing those two are excellent examples. Strickland as well as CJ Wiley and Dennis Hatch are natural players who play with a subconscious level and there are few players like them. They don't fret about much else other than pocketing balls. Souquet and Varner (as examples) are the kind of players who have to work on a more conscious level to play well, Just watch how they play each shot. I wonder also if it because a conscious minded player plays more one pocket and straight pool as compared to a primarily 9-ball player, just a thought...

That may have something to do, that more metodicall players play more straight pool and one pocket. Those games needs to be played more carefully, than 9 ball. But I think, that the way you play have also a lot to do with your character. Lets look the way they act while not playing. Ralf is a quite, nice and easy going person, where Earl is agressive, always loud, laughing, screaming etc. I think every player shows its character through the game. I was watching Luc on TV playing Sudden Death 7 Ball and I've notice, that he made 3 or 4 critical mistakes, which cost him the match, just because of the tempo, that he was playing in. Sometimes after that I asked him, if his game would be better if he would slow down a little bit,,, and you know what - he answered with smile on his face: "I don't think so"

 

[Bluewolf]

I believe Laura was talking about switching the analytical side of your brain off and letting the creative side take over. Most of your decision making is done with the analytical side while standind up. The switch can be something as simple as putting the chaulk on the table. A lot of pros have a switch. Then the creative side takes over. Purdman

Thanks Don. That is exactly what I meant.

Laura

 

[chefjeff]

I believe Laura was talking about switching the analytical side of your brain off and letting the creative side take over. Most of your decision making is done with the analytical side while standind up. The switch can be something as simple as putting the chaulk on the table. A lot of pros have a switch. Then the creative side takes over. I try and explain it like this. I can teach you to dance. I can say, "Put your right foot foreward and then bring it back. Now do it with the left foot. Now repeat the steps." Now when you can do this effortlessly, get creative. Move your hips, and arms. Get in the grove and move. Go for it, now you are dancing. Not just putting one foot in front of the other. That is what makes us differant. See it, hear it, feel it. Then do it.
Purdman

For what it is worth, here's my experience on this subject:

An important thing to recognize about going into/out of a subconscious state is that it happens WITHIN each shot, not just on certain games or matches, days, etc. Once you can chart it WITHIN your shot, you can begin to more easily control the fluctuation at will. I've discovered that every shot allows me the option to shoot in deadstroke or not. Once I identified this timeframe (the shot) I became better able to flip the switch.

The way I control it within my shot is I've added an ingredient two ingredients before I Squeeze the Trigger called, Think My Submerging Thought. Here I use a personal thought that allows my mind to forget the conscious and fall below the awareness line. Some examples that one might use are:

Lookin' good!
That's the speed.
In the hole.
I trust my stroke.
Yes.
Let go.

I've used several of these, and others, as sometimes one works and sometimes another works.

If I'm working on a particular part of my shot, I many times (while practicing, not competing) use that subject as my submerging thought. For example, "stay down" or "relaxed right shoulder."

Someone mentioned R Givens... I just finished reading his 8-Ball book and he recommends using a vision, rather than words, to drop into deadstroke. He says a vision, not words, is what the subconscious uses. Perhaps good advice, perhaps not...I'm not sure yet---for me, that is. I testing various visions as submerging thoughts this summer in preparation for league play this year.

The ingredient after my submerging thought and just before squeezing the trigger is called, Feel the Shot. This is the point where you have the feeling that you just know you are going to make the shot, no matter what. I don't really control the shot at this point, I just observe it, mistakes and all. I (the conscious self) am no longer in control of, but just observing, the shot. Once here, I'm pretty much at the mercy of all my previous efforts---which, because I've consciously controlled these, should be pretty effective at executing a successful shot.

These two ingredients really helped me use deadstroke at will. In a sense, I'm consciously shooting subconsious pool.

Hope this works for you the way it does for me.

Jeff Livingston