Consensus "Greatest of All Time" (GOAT) List

I agree, and for the second round I want to throw 5 points for Mike Sigel

sjm said:
....yet Mike isn't getting much support. As he largely retired from competition in 1993, not so many AZB posters saw Mike in his prime. Even though I watched Mike as early as the late 1970's, count me among those who voted with a bias toward the current era of the game. I place Efren, the king of all-around play and simply the most imaginative player of the last thirty years, at the top. In fact, when Billiards Digest, in 2000, published its list of the 100 best players of the century, I believe Mike Sigel came third, but at least in this poll, he seems a bit forgotten, despite the fact that Earl once called Sigel "the best player I've ever seen".

Still, great poll that I sense most of us are enjoying. Thanks, Dr Dave.
Click to expand...
 
jay helfert said:
My list would look a lot different. My yardstick being who were considered the best players of their respective eras by their peers. I was witness to every era since the 1960's so here's the guys who impressed me and that were boasted about by the best (older) players who were playing before I came along.

EVERYONE raved about Ralph Greenleaf, and to a man the old timers rated him above Mosconi. Same with Johnny "Rags" Fitpatrick, who was considered the best money player (i.e, the best player!) in the 1950's by his peers. After him Lassiter was The Man in pool! Harold Worst exploded on the pool world after winning everything at Three Cushions. Almost immediately he was beating everybody, both in tournaments and for money. Even Lassiter didn't want any part of him. To this day he may be the best pool player I ever watched play the game. He had it all - poise, composure, talent and the will to win. Like all true champions he played better when all the chips were on the line.

Ed Kelly was the best All Around player for a good ten years, meaning no one could beat him playing all games. He excelled in every aspect of pool and at all the various games. Ronnie Allen dominated One Pocket (maybe the most difficult pool game) for over twenty years and so did Efren. Jose Parica was the acknowledged king of the hill for money for a good twenty years himself. No one would play him even!

Earl was the best tournament 9-Ball player ever and Buddy Hall won more pool tournaments than anyone before or since. Buddy excelled on big or small tables and was amazingly consistent. He had three speeds - good, better and best! I NEVER saw him play a bad match. He didn't have let downs.

Mizerak was the best pool player on the planet until Earl came along. He was the favorite in any tournament he entered in the 1970's to 80's, along with Buddy and then Sigel (all pre-Earl). Even Sigel kept finishing second to the Mighty Miz, whether it be 14.1, 9-Ball or One Pocket.

Taylor and Bugs were the best bankers who ever lived, period! One other man who deserves mention on here is Walter Lindrum from Australia. He was also before my time, but his historical record is unmatched in tournament pool. He never seemed to lose to anybody! Probably only Mike Shamos has all his records somewhere, but I know he was superlative.

Yes, Mosconi was the greatest in an era full of great 14.1 players - Crane, Caras, Cranfield, Ponzi and more. So he's right up there too.

I don't know if it's possible to rate these guys for a top ten, but I'll try.

1. Harold Worst
2. Walter Lindrum
3. Ralph Greenleaf
4. Luther Lassiter
5. Jose Parica
6. Willie Mosconi
7. Efren Reyes
8. Buddy Hall
9. Steve Mizerak
10.(tie) Rags Fitzpatrick and Mike Sigel

Honorable Mention - Earl Strickland and Ed Kelly
Click to expand...

You know Jay, I've never seen half of these guys play. But don't you think if we could put Shane in a time machine and send him back to any year, that he would crush all of them in a long winner breaks set of 10 ball?
And could any of them, other than Efren , beat Alex at 1 pocket?
 
Mt second round vote:

Efren-1
Earl-1
SVB-1
Varner-1
Sigel-1

Same as the first round, and I'm sticking to my opinion that there isn't really a GOAT in the billiards/pool world. There are simply too many arguments that can be made for a lot of players (as witnessed on this thread) to be called the GOAT. There is simply not enough evidence to suggest that there even is such an animal...so to speak.


Lots of posters are just voting for their personal favorites anyway, not necessarily based on accomplishments. Even I did on a couple of them.

Maniac
 
Tennesseejoe said:
Second round...Buddy Hall 5
Click to expand...
You just moved Buddy from 11 to 9 ahead of Archer and Ocollo.

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 175
2 - Earl Strickland - 93
3 - Shane Van Boening - 91
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 82
6 - Mike Sigel - 69
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 23): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, maha, mark187, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
Luxury said:
Second round Earl 5

Seeing him at number 17 in the BD poll one spot above Allison Fisher but below Jean Balukas and others to me is proof That antics are taken into consideration when determining greatness
Click to expand...
Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 175
2 - Earl Strickland - 98
3 - Shane Van Boening - 91
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 82
6 - Mike Sigel - 69
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 24): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, Luxury, maha, mark187, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
beetle said:
I agree, and for the second round I want to throw 5 points for Mike Sigel
Click to expand...
Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 175
2 - Earl Strickland - 98
3 - Shane Van Boening - 91
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 82
6 - Mike Sigel - 74
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 25): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, Luxury, maha, mark187, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
Maniac said:
Mt second round vote:

Efren-1
Earl-1
SVB-1
Varner-1
Sigel-1

Same as the first round, and I'm sticking to my opinion that there isn't really a GOAT in the billiards/pool world. There are simply too many arguments that can be made for a lot of players (as witnessed on this thread) to be called the GOAT. There is simply not enough evidence to suggest that there even is such an animal...so to speak.


Lots of posters are just voting for their personal favorites anyway, not necessarily based on accomplishments. Even I did on a couple of them.

Maniac
Click to expand...
Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 176
2 - Earl Strickland - 99
3 - Shane Van Boening - 92
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 83
6 - Mike Sigel - 75
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 26): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
Dr Dave,

In Kasparov vs The World, a truth was illustrated that the opinions, decisions, knowledge or views of the whole is not as accurate as that of a small subset of qualified experts.

This is the case here.
 
Grilled Cheese said:
Dr Dave,

In Kasparov vs The World, a truth was illustrated that the opinions, decisions, knowledge or views of the whole is not as accurate as that of a small subset of qualified experts.

This is the case here.
Click to expand...
I think you're right, but it's fun anyway.

Please vote to contribute to the lack of knowledge. :)

Regards,
Dave
 
Mich said:
Sigel 5
There is no substitute. Greatest Player in the finals period. In Dead Stroke unbeatable by anyone. Buddy Hall said it best, "No one shoots straighter than Mike Sigel."
Click to expand...

Sammy Soto beat both of them in their prime.
 
gordml said:
You know Jay, I've never seen half of these guys play. But don't you think if we could put Shane in a time machine and send him back to any year, that he would crush all of them in a long winner breaks set of 10 ball?

And could any of them, other than Efren , beat Alex at 1 pocket?
Click to expand...



It would be an absolute annihilation especially since their 10 ball break would be nowhere near as good as Shane’s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Luxury said:
It would be an absolute annihilation especially since their 10 ball break would be nowhere near as good as S


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Johnny in his prime had the best 9 ball break on the planet if they played 10 ball back then I'm sure his break wouldn't be to bad in his prime I don't think Shane could beat Johnny.
 
poolpimp13 said:
Johnny in his prime had the best 9 ball break on the planet if they played 10 ball back then I'm sure his break wouldn't be to bad in his prime I don't think Shane could beat Johnny.
Click to expand...



Good point but Johnny wasn’t on Jay’s list that we were talking about


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gordml said:
You know Jay, I've never seen half of these guys play. But don't you think if we could put Shane in a time machine and send him back to any year, that he would crush all of them in a long winner breaks set of 10 ball?
And could any of them, other than Efren , beat Alex at 1 pocket?
Click to expand...

jay can't possibly have seen all of them either. i think i saw a video of harold worst playing 9-ball. it was a horrorshow tbh, with nothing resembling decent position play. and just look at the 80's and some of the players held in such high regard in this thread. there are lots of videos, youtube, accustats, etc. they simply did not have the kicking, the banking or the break abilities of the top dogs today. shane would wreak havoc with his BNRs..

that's not to take away from their greatness against their contemporaries. and when it comes to 14.1 they were truly great. but then again, 14.1 isn't played today
 
none of these guys including Efren could touch Earl at his highest gear, not even close

Earl however allowed certain circumstances to dictate his game opening himself up to these guys, the original color of money match is a good example of this

Efren never did this
 
poolpimp13 said:
Johnny in his prime had the best 9 ball break on the planet if they played 10 ball back then I'm sure his break wouldn't be to bad in his prime I don't think Shane could beat Johnny.
Click to expand...
Please make your opinion official by placing a vote per the info in the first post.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Grilled Cheese said:
Ha! ok.

+5 for Earl.
Click to expand...
It looks like Earl is running away with 2nd place now, probably deservedly so.

Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 176
2 - Earl Strickland - 104
3 - Shane Van Boening - 92
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 83
6 - Mike Sigel - 75
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 27): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
MattPoland said:
Second round...SVB 3, Efren 2
Click to expand...
Here's the Current Top 10 GOAT List (see the first post for more info and voting instructions):

Rank - Name - Score

1 - Efren Reyes - 178
2 - Earl Strickland - 104
3 - Shane Van Boening - 95
4 - Alex Pagulayan - 88
5 - Nick Varner - 83
6 - Mike Sigel - 75
7 - Wu Chia-ching - 49
8 - Francisco Bustamante - 49
9 - Buddy Hall - 48
10 - Dennis Ocollo - 44
11 - Johnny Archer - 44

People who have already voted in the second round (total number: 28): 9 Ball Fan, atlas333, beetle, Bob Jewett, dr_dave, Get_A_Grip, gordml, Grilled Cheese, highkarate, icucybe, JazzyJeff87, Luxury, maha, Maniac, mark187, MattPoland, noMoreSchon, Poolmanis, RailBanger, ricardo, Runnintable, SamShaddey, Scratch85, sjm, skogstokig, Tennesseejoe, TX Poolnut, West Point 1987.

Thank you for participating,
Dave

PS: Remember, we're not just determining the consensus GOAT. We are also identifying the consensus Top 10 GOAT. So chose your vote points with this in mind. Voting ends on 6/30/2019, at which point the 11th spot will be dropped.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top