Contact point aiming techniques

[Kdogster]

For those that use this system (Dr. Dave page link ), what techniques work well for bookmarking the contact point (CP) on the OB after you get down on the shot. What I mean by bookmarking is trying to re-locate the CP on the OB after you move behind the CB. If the cut shot is on the thinner side (maybe > 20 degrees), I am struggling with seeing the CP on the OB from this different perspective. The CP on the CB is not an issue, because my eyes are on top of CB when I'm down on the shot.

These are some things that I've tried to bookmark the CP on OB with varying amounts of success

• Relate the CP to edge of stripe or number on OB near the equator of the ball. You have to get lucky for this to work.
• Visualize a contact ring around OB that goes through the CP on the equator and try to hold this ring in my mind as I move behind CB.
• Try to get my cue stick pre-aligned between CPs at the time I'm standing behind the OB. Then keep this alignment as I move behind CB. I think this might only be useful on extremely thin cut shots as it's difficult to keep the alignment, when you move behind CB.
• Try to locate a shadow point below the OB directly below CP on OB. This hasn't worked too well for me as the perspective shift changes your view of the shadow below OB as well.

So far, visualizing a ring that goes through CP on equator of OB is working the best. Then, I do some fine tuning of the shot based on feel after I get my best guess alignment based on CP to CP.

Anybody have any suggestions for how to make this more reliable?

Thanks

 

[Bob Jewett]

Why not use stripes as in Mosconi's "Winning Pocket Billiards"?

 

[Kdogster]

Ok, that's probably the same thing as what I'm calling visualizing rings (along vertical axis). So, the idea is just to visualize the stripe in your mind, then try to to maintain the location of the stripe as you get behind CB to take the shot?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Ok, that's probably the same thing as what I'm calling visualizing rings (along vertical axis). So, the idea is just to visualize the stripe in your mind, then try to to maintain the location of the stripe as you get behind CB to take the shot?

You could try practicing with striped balls although I think thinner stripes would be clearer.

 

[straightline]

In pool all the balls will have markings that help locate the contact points. On long cuts where you might walk over and take a look at the object ball line, make a note of where the point sits among the ball markings. Parallel tangents will also give you a vertical plane to judge the impact geometry. You can easily visualize those from the shooting position. You'd be surprised what you can determined from there.

 

[Kdogster]

In pool all the balls will have markings that help locate the contact points. On long cuts where you might walk over and take a look at the object ball line, make a note of where the point sits among the ball markings. Parallel tangents will also give you a vertical plane to judge the impact geometry. You can easily visualize those from the shooting position. You'd be surprised what you can determined from there.

You could try practicing with striped balls although I think thinner stripes would be clearer.

Yep, I will keep experimenting, practicing, and refining. Thanks to you both for your thoughts.

 

[BC21]

For those that use this system (Dr. Dave page link ), what techniques work well for bookmarking the contact point (CP) on the OB after you get down on the shot. What I mean by bookmarking is trying to re-locate the CP on the OB after you move behind the CB. If the cut shot is on the thinner side (maybe > 20 degrees), I am struggling with seeing the CP on the OB from this different perspective. The CP on the CB is not an issue, because my eyes are on top of CB when I'm down on the shot.

These are some things that I've tried to bookmark the CP on OB with varying amounts of success

• Relate the CP to edge of stripe or number on OB near the equator of the ball. You have to get lucky for this to work.
• Visualize a contact ring around OB that goes through the CP on the equator and try to hold this ring in my mind as I move behind CB.
• Try to get my cue stick pre-aligned between CPs at the time I'm standing behind the OB. Then keep this alignment as I move behind CB. I think this might only be useful on extremely thin cut shots as it's difficult to keep the alignment, when you move behind CB.
• Try to locate a shadow point below the OB directly below CP on OB. This hasn't worked too well for me as the perspective shift changes your view of the shadow below OB as well.

So far, visualizing a ring that goes through CP on equator of OB is working the best. Then, I do some fine tuning of the shot based on feel after I get my best guess alignment based on CP to CP.

Anybody have any suggestions for how to make this more reliable?

Thanks

Yes....to make this more reliable you simply employ the good ol HAMB method. It's based on trial and error, hitting enough shots to finally develop a good eye for it. At first you miss more shots than you make, then eventually you start making enough to start building the synaptic pathways needed to just see it and do it.

I think to help speed up the process it would be good to give your brain more visual information. Once you determine where the contact point is, and you determine the cb path needed to connect with that contact point, pay attention to where the center of the cb is aligned in reference to the ob center or ob edge. In other words, as you're down on the cb, visualize exactly where the aim line (through center cb) lands in relation the to ob, whether it's a little more or a little less than a halfball shot for example, or right between a halfball shot and a straight in shot. This added visual (fractional aiming reference) can be used to help program your mind when it comes to recognizing cb-ob relationships.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In addition to the above advice, try (while practicing) rotating the object ball so there's a visible feature (the center or edge of a vertical stripe, for instance) right on the OB contact point. Obviously you can't do this while playing, but making the contact point visible can help you to visualize where it is from the cue ball's perspective for various cut angles.

When I gave lessons I used a laser sitting on the rail to shine a dot (or a vertical line) on the contact point - this is a low tech version of that.

pj
chgo

 

[Kdogster]

Yes....to make this more reliable you simply employ the good ol HAMB method. It's based on trial and error, hitting enough shots to finally develop a good eye for it. At first you miss more shots than you make, then eventually you start making enough to start building the synaptic pathways needed to just see it and do it.

I think to help speed up the process it would be good to give your brain more visual information. Once you determine where the contact point is, and you determine the cb path needed to connect with that contact point, pay attention to where the center of the cb is aligned in reference to the ob center or ob edge. In other words, as you're down on the cb, visualize exactly where the aim line (through center cb) lands in relation the to ob, whether it's a little more or a little less than a halfball shot for example, or right between a halfball shot and a straight in shot. This added visual (fractional aiming reference) can be used to help program your mind when it comes to recognizing cb-ob relationships.

Yep, I'm on the same page as you on the HAMB approach and getting a sense of aiming line based on feeling the amount of fractional ball overlap and using edges of CB and OB as references. This works very well for me on most of the shots that come up. That said, I've been introducing the CP aiming as a way to confirm my feel, kind of a belt and suspenders approach. I think CP aiming will also raise the bar on my accuracy as I do rattle some balls that look right to me.

There are also some shots, for which I don't have a feel for the shot including fuller ball hits (< 5 degree cuts), medium cuts when OB and CB are close together, or when OB is a long distance to pocket. Contact point aiming seems like a great system for these shots, since it gives you something to work with, when your brain just isn't feeling the shot.

 

[Kdogster]

In addition to the above advice, try (while practicing) rotating the object ball so there's a visible feature (the center or edge of a vertical stripe, for instance) right on the OB contact point. Obviously you can't do this while playing, but making the contact point visible can help you to visualize where it is from the cue ball's perspective for various cut angles.

When I gave lessons I used a laser sitting on the rail to shine a dot (or a vertical line) on the contact point - this is a low tech version of that.

pj
chgo

Great idea, Patrick. I will try this. My theory as to why I'm slightly off is that I'm not getting the CP on the exact equator of the OB in particular. I am working on bending down to pick the CP along the equator, then carefully keeping my gaze on it as I move behind CB. Visualizing points on round objects is definitely a skill that must be honed.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Visualizing points on round objects is definitely a skill that must be honed.

And visualizing the point that you need to hit takes even more honing. The good news is it can be done - I almost never need to sight the OB-to-pocket line any more.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

... There are also some shots, for which I don't have a feel for the shot including fuller ball hits (< 5 degree cuts), ...

If you don't already use it, you might try the "double the distance" method for nearly full shots. Point your cue at a spot on the object ball that is twice as far from the center as the contact point.

 

[Kdogster]

If you don't already use it, you might try the "double the distance" method for nearly full shots. Point your cue at a spot on the object ball that is twice as far from the center as the contact point.

Thanks for that tip. I saw this system on the first HAPS video (well done making the video, btw!). I tried to use it at the table, but it didn't seem that useful to me. I will give it another try for these shots.

 

[Imac007]

For those that use this system (Dr. Dave page link ), what techniques work well for bookmarking the contact point (CP) on the OB after you get down on the shot. What I mean by bookmarking is trying to re-locate the CP on the OB after you move behind the CB. If the cut shot is on the thinner side (maybe > 20 degrees), I am struggling with seeing the CP on the OB from this different perspective. The CP on the CB is not an issue, because my eyes are on top of CB when I'm down on the shot.

These are some things that I've tried to bookmark the CP on OB with varying amounts of success

• Relate the CP to edge of stripe or number on OB near the equator of the ball. You have to get lucky for this to work.
• Visualize a contact ring around OB that goes through the CP on the equator and try to hold this ring in my mind as I move behind CB.
• Try to get my cue stick pre-aligned between CPs at the time I'm standing behind the OB. Then keep this alignment as I move behind CB. I think this might only be useful on extremely thin cut shots as it's difficult to keep the alignment, when you move behind CB.
• Try to locate a shadow point below the OB directly below CP on OB. This hasn't worked too well for me as the perspective shift changes your view of the shadow below OB as well.

So far, visualizing a ring that goes through CP on equator of OB is working the best. Then, I do some fine tuning of the shot based on feel after I get my best guess alignment based on CP to CP.

Anybody have any suggestions for how to make this more reliable?

Thanks

The process, for me, involves going to the ob and looking at the line from the contact point to the target location. Orient your cue so that the cue is on the line. Look closely at where on the balls equator center you are looking. Ball markings help but sometimes on solid colors they are not available. Keeping your eye on that spot move to the cue ball location. Notice how on a cut shot the fixation point ends up more to the side than from the straight on perspective. Since you say you can see the spot on the front of the white ball that can contact that point, line up the two points with your cue. Now shift the cue parallel to the cue ball center. That is the ghost ball line. That line if used will work on shorter shots but is subject to throw when the ob has to travel much distance. There are methods for nearly eliminating throw that require the use of gearing english or convergent side, but that is another topic.

There are two contact points to locate. I’ve learned to estimate the ob contact point standing behind the cue ball first. I then fixate on that point while going to the ob and see how close I was to my estimate. If I was bang on I know my perspective from the cb is accurate. I then focus on accurately finding the one on the cb. The cue line from ob contact point to target is then shifted parallel to the cb. The contact point on the cb is the exit point on the front of the ball when the cue is pointed at the ob center. I place my parallel shifted cue so that my perspective has the tip located over the exit point. I fixate there and pivot from the tip until my cue is pointed to the previously correctly located ob contact point. The two contact points are now aligned. By constantly estimating the ob contact point then checking on how accurate you are you get very good at finding and seeing the point from the cb. Sometimes in order to see the parallel line through the cb get well back from the table. The parallel shift center to center from distance is easier to see. From far enough away both are in your visual field and easier to perceive.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There's also the old trick of:

1. sight the OB-to-pocket line
2. place your tip on the cloth where the base of the ghost cue ball would be
3. leave it there while you walk to behind the cue ball, pivoting your stick on its tip as you go
4. see where the ghost ball center is from the cue ball's direction
5. use that visual info to help you "see" where the contact point is and where to aim the CB to hit it

pj
chgo

 

[Kdogster]

Notice how on a cut shot the fixation point ends up more to the side than from the straight on perspective.

Great observation. For me, picking the contact point at eye level along the equator helps to get a sense of the point in a 3 dimensional space. As I move behind the CB, I perceive the point as an edge from the new perspective.

Since you say you can see the spot on the front of the white ball that can contact that point, line up the two points with your cue. Now shift the cue parallel to the cue ball center. That is the ghost ball line. That line if used will work on shorter shots but is subject to throw when the ob has to travel much distance. There are methods for nearly eliminating throw that require the use of gearing english or convergent side, but that is another topic.

Yep, I am definitely taking into account throw when picking the contact point.

There are two contact points to locate. I’ve learned to estimate the ob contact point standing behind the cue ball first. I then fixate on that point while going to the ob and see how close I was to my estimate. If I was bang on I know my perspective from the cb is accurate. I then focus on accurately finding the one on the cb. The cue line from ob contact point to target is then shifted parallel to the cb. The contact point on the cb is the exit point on the front of the ball when the cue is pointed at the ob center. I place my parallel shifted cue so that my perspective has the tip located over the exit point. I fixate there and pivot from the tip until my cue is pointed to the previously correctly located ob contact point. The two contact points are now aligned. By constantly estimating the ob contact point then checking on how accurate you are you get very good at finding and seeing the point from the cb. Sometimes in order to see the parallel line through the cb get well back from the table. The parallel shift center to center from distance is easier to see. From far enough away both are in your visual field and easier to perceive.

I'll do some experimenting with estimating the contact point on OB while standing behind CB.

My current system is to get directly behind OB to locate contact point. Then, I fixate on the OB contact point while moving behind CB. Then, using my peripheral vision, I can find the parallel line contact point on CB while still keeping the OB contact point in sight. At this point, I'm able to have my cue run parallel to the line formed between the two contact points and I can fine-tune a little using feel. As I kept working on it, it became kind of a coordinated movement and it started to get pretty fast. A few times, I'd lose my concentration, and I'd need to start over. On certain shots which are a little harder to adjust with feel, I may also do a literal parallel shift with my cue to find the contact point on CB more precisely, so that I'm not relying on peripheral view.

The type of info you provided is exactly what I was hoping to get in this discussion. Thank you kindly.

 

[Imac007]

There's also the old trick of:

1. sight the OB-to-pocket line
2. place your tip on the cloth where the base of the ghost cue ball would be
3. leave it there while you walk to behind the cue ball, pivoting your stick on its tip as you go
4. see where the ghost ball center is from the cue ball's direction
5. use that visual info to help you "see" where the contact point is and where to aim the CB to hit it

pj
chgo

A very good method. It works until it doesn’t because of distance or intervening balls.
As an addendum consider an alternative. The pivot can of course be done visually with an air pivot perceptually, when a physical tip pivot won’t work.

 

[Kdogster]

If you don't already use it, you might try the "double the distance" method for nearly full shots. Point your cue at a spot on the object ball that is twice as far from the center as the contact point.

I spent some time on this today. It works awesome for the nearly full shots. It's so simple, too.

 

[sixpack]

One thing I do sometimes is instead of lining up center CB to Ghost Ball center, I line up contact point of CB to contact point of OB and I will visually hold my cue in the air to see the exact line while standing behind the CB. Then I set up to that line and parallel shift to center of the CB.

There is another sighting trick which is to note the point on the tip that overlaps with the contact point on the OB when you are standing behind it and visualizing the shot after you shift to center CB. When you get down on center CB if you did it correctly the CP will be in the same place on the tip. This is not an exact relationship because your perspective changes.

And yet another trick for Double the Distance: If you line up edge of cue through Cue CP to OB CP. You can look at where the center of the OB is on the tip. When you parallel shift that point will be on the OB CP. For example, if you are cutting the OB to the right and use the left edge of the cue shaft to make a direct line through the CP of the CB to the CP on the OB. A part on the arc of the right side of the tip will be on the vertical center of the point on the OB relative to the line between the center of the CB and the center of the OB. It might hit the tip at 2 o'clock. If you then shift back to the center of the CB and put the 2 o'clock spot on the OB contact point you will have doubled the distance from center to aim at.

 

[Kdogster]

One thing I do sometimes is instead of lining up center CB to Ghost Ball center, I line up contact point of CB to contact point of OB and I will visually hold my cue in the air to see the exact line while standing behind the CB. Then I set up to that line and parallel shift to center of the CB.

There is another sighting trick which is to note the point on the tip that overlaps with the contact point on the OB when you are standing behind it and visualizing the shot after you shift to center CB. When you get down on center CB if you did it correctly the CP will be in the same place on the tip. This is not an exact relationship because your perspective changes.

And yet another trick for Double the Distance: If you line up edge of cue through Cue CP to OB CP. You can look at where the center of the OB is on the tip. When you parallel shift that point will be on the OB CP. For example, if you are cutting the OB to the right and use the left edge of the cue shaft to make a direct line through the CP of the CB to the CP on the OB. A part on the arc of the right side of the tip will be on the vertical center of the point on the OB relative to the line between the center of the CB and the center of the OB. It might hit the tip at 2 o'clock. If you then shift back to the center of the CB and put the 2 o'clock spot on the OB contact point you will have doubled the distance from center to aim at.

Thanks for sharing the nice ideas sixpack. I'm still digesting them. I tried your trick on Double the Distance and using a reference point on the tip arc. I am struggling with this idea, but I think there is something there to discover. It reminds me of Shane Van Boenings shaft aiming system, where you choose a point on tip for certain cross section of the ferule (e.g. 1/3, 1/4) to line up with center of OB based on the approximate angle of the shot.