I have a 5x10 pool table. I currently have it listed on craigslist (pictures in the ad) in Denver because I am looking at a snooker table, but truthfully I doubt it will sell. It plays pretty well but the k66 cushions that were installed are a little too high. They measure 1 5/8" at the point or 3/16ths too high. Simonis 760 cloth. The cushions are flush with the top of the rail. This is a t-rail table - so there really is no way to lower it. This to me would indicate it was actually a billiard table. Do you mechanics think I am SOL regarding the height? Would k55 rubber raise or lower the height? If I keep the table I will try to make it play even better than it plays now. The guy that did the rails is retired and I am not sure there are any guys local that I would trust to do the job....
Converted Billiard Table/Wrong Profile or both?
- Thread starter cjl0s
- Start date
If the table is a Brunswick, the rails were designed for K55 profile cushions, which in the case of your table would lower the nose of the cushions about an 1/8"th inch down, Brunswick Superspeed would lower it down about 3/16"ths of an inch as it is in between K66 and K55 profilescjl0s said:
Glen
cjl0s said:
The rails can be re-rubbered and correct the nose height if your mechanic follows this procedure. Before starting any corrective work make sure the existing cushions are flush on the top with the rail liner. If they are higher simply remove them and take a measurement with them flush. If your nose height is an 1 and 7/16 just re-glue them in that corrected position. If the rails are already flush with the top surface of the rail liner you'll have to move on to step two...:sorry:
The existing cushions will have to be removed. The rail liner angle will have to be re-cut to reduce the existing angle... in other words reduce the bevel of the gluing surface. Be very careful that your mechanic is familiar with this procedure. In the process of changing the bevel you are potentially changing the dimensions of playing surface. Any wood taken off in the process will have to be replaced (flat strips) and laminated back on after the corrected bevel is achieved in order to maintain the playing field dimensions. On a 5x10 table that is 112 In. x 56 in. measured nose to nose.
After the proper angle is milled your cushion should be dry fit to confirm that with the top of the cushion flush, the nose height is 1+7/16 in. from the base of the rail liner. Then re-glue, re-face and recover, if you're using a quality cushion (Artemis) your rails should play fine.
One more thing... make sure your rails are properly tightened to insure a lively bounce...:smile:
Step two is really a job for an experienced mechanic. If you can't find one locally try the mechanics thread at the top of the page.
Hope this helps
Jay
Glen,
It seems like every time I post you beat me to the pass...LOL
Thanks for taking my call yesterday, you got me very excited for the future!!!!!!
Jay
It seems like every time I post you beat me to the pass...LOL
Thanks for taking my call yesterday, you got me very excited for the future!!!!!!
Jay
cjl0s said:
Or just do what Glen said...:thumbup:
K66 cushions on a Brunswick set of rails flush to the top of the sub rail, automatically makes the nose of the cushions 1/8"th of an inch higher to at least 1 9/16"ths...and most mechanics never change the bevel of the sub-rails...they just change the cushions...so it stands to reason when the OP said he had K66 cushions installed on a 5 x 10 table...which MUST have been a Brunswick, therefore...high cushion nose height easily corrected by installing the CORRECT cushions:rotflmao1: :dance:A-1 billiards said:
Glen
PS. Ooops, unless Ernesto did the work, but if he did...the cushion nose wouldn't be high, just lowered down on the sub-rails
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realkingcobra said:K66 cushions on a Brunswick set of rails flush to the top of the sub rail, automatically makes the nose of the cushions 1/8"th of an inch higher to at least 1 9/16"ths...and most mechanics never change the bevel of the sub-rails...they just change the cushions...so it stands to reason when the OP said he had K66 cushions installed on a 5 x 10 table...which MUST have been a Brunswick, therefore...high cushion nose height easily corrected by installing the CORRECT cushions:rotflmao1: :dance:
Glen
PS. Ooops, unless Ernesto did the work, but if he did...the cushion nose wouldn't be high, just lowered down on the sub-rails
Glen, I have run into this exact situation with Oliver Briggs and J.E. Came tables. They both used a unique rubber profile that required the liners to be re- beveled to facilitate a modern cushion profile. K 55 or 66. In this case I believe you are 100% correct, I realized this the minute I hit "post reply" and your very definitive answer was posted above me. Ergo my additional posts...
...LOLJay
I hope this question won't be on the test in KC...LOL. I have been accused of looking past the obvious...Like "is this a Brunswick table"...LOL
Jay
Jay
It's kind of like getting married, you have to ask ALL the RIGHT questions BEFORE you get married....so you don't have to do it 2 or 3 times before you get it right:smash: :smash: :smash:A-1 billiards said:
realkingcobra said:It's kind of like getting married, you have to ask ALL the RIGHT questions BEFORE you get married....so you don't have to do it 2 or 3 times before you get it right:smash: :smash: :smash:
Amen to that...:grin: That could really cost you big time. I know..
I do not think it is a brunswick - there are pictures on denver.craigslist.org in the sporting good section search 5x10 pool table in sporting goods about a week back. I would post pics but I am not sure how to on this forum..The guys at Rebco thought that it was a converted AE Schmidt Billiard table. It was in a commercial pool hall in Kansas around 1960. Thanks guys!
cjl0s said:
I know Bob, I'll call him tomorrow get the details and post possible rail cushion fix. If it was a Carom table that was converted it changes the process.
Glen. RKC....AE Schmidt billiard tables cushions are K-55 flat side up I believe?
1 9/16 nose. Canvas on the bottom? Help me out here...
Jay
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Dartman wins a prize on this one. The rubber is possibly on upside down for pocket billiards. Nice going Rick.
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Thanks everyone for all of your input. I went down and looked at the cushion and there is a very slight curve. The rails were worked on in a shop and before the installation and the mechanic believed he was working on a billiard table. I do not think the cushions are upside down - but I am not a mechanic...The invoice said K66 but he sometimes referred to the cushions as Brunswick Superspeed - which from an earlier post sounds like it is midway between the K66 and K55. He was pretty busy and may not have wanted to remove wood to risk damaging the rails. The shop did most of the maintenance at the big pool halls in Denver in the 90 like the Billiard Institute before it was torn down to build and Eckards Drug Store! The table still plays very well but is not as bouncy as I would have hoped. It is not a problem but if I keep this table I will once again look at replacing the cushions if feasible as well as tighten up the pockets from 4 3/4 to 4 inches or maybe less. (Probably why I am looking at a snooker table :0)
Chris
Chris
No matter how you look at it 1 5/8" is much too high - even for carom (61.5mm ball)
You're getting poor bounce because the cushions are sucking the ball in.
You need to get under the rail cloth to diagnose the cushion situation but first check that there's
nothing under the rails that would effectively "shim" up the cushion nose.
You can also put a straight edge across the top of the rail. If the cushion nose is flush with
the top of the rail (no gap) that's a good indicator that the cushions are upside down.
You're getting poor bounce because the cushions are sucking the ball in.
You need to get under the rail cloth to diagnose the cushion situation but first check that there's
nothing under the rails that would effectively "shim" up the cushion nose.
You can also put a straight edge across the top of the rail. If the cushion nose is flush with
the top of the rail (no gap) that's a good indicator that the cushions are upside down.
I'm still betting on the wrong cushions
Feel the bottom edge of the cushions to see if the profile goes all the way down to the sub-rail bottom, or if it stops short and kind of leaves a lip of wood. If there's a lip of wood that you can feel, does if feel like it's about an 1/8"th inch of shelf? Just follow the profile of the cushion from the nose down under the rail all the way to the playing surface, you'll see what I'm talking about. On the other hand, does the bottom edge of the cushion extend past the sub-rail creating an over hanging lip of cushion?cjl0s said:
Then feel the profile of the cushion on top and under the nose of the cushion. Does the top of the cushion feel like it's humped compared to the underside, or does the top feel kind of bowed in and the bottom side feels humped?
Glen