Converting antique Brunswick from Snooker to Pool

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Keroppi

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I am considering the purchase of a 1930's 6 leg Randolph 5x10 (I am in love with deco 6-leggers) ...but it is a snooker table. I want to convert it for pool. I have read and searched, and I realize that many say it is arguably not worth the trouble, but I have wanted one of these for a long time; even though it needs a LOT of TLC and veneer-work, they don't come up for sale locally, and never at this price.
So...it appears what would have to be done is:
  • Grind the Slate for 4.5" pockets (difficult)
  • Get new #6 irons and pockets
  • Cut the rails 1/2" on every side to change all pockets from 3.5" to 4.5" (moderate)
  • Re-angle the cushion subframe to put new K55 nose at correct height (difficult)
  • route rails for new sights (optional)
Is that about right? I can live without the sights, and pockets are just $$, so that brings me to the other, more difficult things:
  1. The slate: it appears that this table *used* to be set up for pool? If you look in the pic below, the cut in the slate is much larger than the pocket edge, the cushions hang well over it...do I need to do anything at all to the slate?
  2. On the same note, how bad would it be to cut the cushions correctly but leave the pockets as is...would it greatly affect the play?
  3. Assuming the cushion height IS snooker (the rails have no sights, so I assume so)...I read that it's necessary to rebuild the subframe with some angled miter'd wood to re-angle the cushions so the nose is 1/8" (1/4"?) higher...as opposed to doing all of that, would there be no way to just raise the entire railset 1/8"? Wouldn't that be a LOT easier? What would be the problem with doing that?
Thank you all for your your insight and assistance on this forum, and for reading this long-winded post. If you'd like to see higher res pics I have of the table in question, they are here.


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Thanks for the heads up. It was after hours, I'll call him tomorrow. Are you figuring he'll have the answers, or has he got a replacement set of rails? I am trying to get out as cheap as possible, and am hopeful the current snooker rails can be modified reasonably, even though the aren't in the best of shape.
 
You will need to cut the whole rail down for pool pockets. Just changing pocket angle wouldn't change the throat which would be to small compared to opening at mouth

Just reread op looks like you already know that
 
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Beauty of a table.....

I've got a couple of local friends who have late 1800's tables and I would suggest that the "honed out" pockets is fairly typical ot that time frame. It's a GORGEOUS table! Best of luck with the project! :thumbup:
 
It CAN be a gorgeous table...after some significant veneer work. I don't want to jump the gun, it's not my project quite yet.
First, I have to figure out exactly how much work has to be done to those rails, or how much another set will cost before I can make the plunge. It's already at ~$700 for pockets, irons, simonis and cushions. Plus whatever the rails take, plus the cosmetics. Oh yeah, plus the table.
After I get a grip on what it will really take for the conversion, it'll be all I can manage to get the table and some veneer so I can refinish it and set it up (I am a man of humble means)...I'll probably have to settle for 'improper' pool for a while till I can afford the rest. At least it gives me a good excuse to learn to play snooker...;)

The real issue that is a make or break is the slate. It's the biggest issue RKC keeps bringing up as the biggest problem with these conversions, at least on open pocket tables...and he is well respected here by everybody he doesn't 'butt heads' with...so I take it to heart.
It *looks* like the pocket edges are pool size, but I have an untrained eye (I am not a pool expert, but been wanting to learn) and that's why I beg the assistance of you great mechs!
 
I had another thought that I'd appreciate shot down if not reasonable:
Supposedly the original monarch cushions for these old Brunswick rails are usually replaced with k55s, as they are pretty similar in subrail angle; but would the snooker subrails likely be the same or similar angle with just different shaped cushions, or possibly completely different?
And if it's the same angle, instead of trying to re-angle the subrails, how about installing k66 cushions? They are designed for less angle, so installing them should raise the nose height...but how close to correct would it be?
If this got the nose height right and the slate is good to go, then really, all I would have to do is cut and re-angle the rail edges and re-drill the iron holes for the new pockets, yes?
 
Some of the antiques had wooden pocket shelf area... What you are proposing is probably more cost and work than you think. I have tons of photos for my project. Click the link in my signature.

If you are a man of little means get the table and play snooker. Great game and you think other pockets play tight wait 'til you try these!
 
Keroppi said:
Thanks for the heads up. It was after hours, I'll call him tomorrow. Are you figuring he'll have the answers, or has he got a replacement set of rails? I am trying to get out as cheap as possible, and am hopeful the current snooker rails can be modified reasonably, even though the aren't in the best of shape.
Click to expand...

Think John is more versed in snooker & antique tables then many on here so just my opinion that any answers he provides would be more on track for your project. Worth a call to inquire.
 
Keroppi said:
I had another thought that I'd appreciate shot down if not reasonable:
Supposedly the original monarch cushions for these old Brunswick rails are usually replaced with k55s, as they are pretty similar in subrail angle; but would the snooker subrails likely be the same or similar angle with just different shaped cushions, or possibly completely different?
And if it's the same angle, instead of trying to re-angle the subrails, how about installing k66 cushions? They are designed for less angle, so installing them should raise the nose height...but how close to correct would it be?
If this got the nose height right and the slate is good to go, then really, all I would have to do is cut and re-angle the rail edges and re-drill the iron holes for the new pockets, yes?
Click to expand...

here is the answer i got from Brunswick themselves on my 1916 Kling..

"marvin.eisenhauer@brunswickbilliards.com
K-66 profile cushion rubber should be used to replace the Monarch on your Kling table. The K-55 profile was not used until about 1960.
Marv"

of course mine was not modified from a snooker table ....so this point may be moot ....but I think there is some mis-information about the k-55 stuff on old brunswicks.

hope that helps.
 
matteroner said:
....but I think there is some mis-information about the k-55 stuff on old brunswicks.
Click to expand...

IMO Bwick tables that date back to the early 1900's and before need to be approached on a table by table basis meaning what you think "should" work might not. The last time I went down the antique Bwick road I found cushions that could not be duplicated with modern cushions but by rebeveling the subrail was able to get K55 to work well. Even had Marvin on the phone to discuss the table and altho he has a lot of knowledge there's some things Bwick did 100 years ago that he didn't know but still it's worth the time to pick at his expertise. FWIW his number is 800-336-8771 X5223
 
Dart: It doesn't seem like Marvin is with the company anymore? The extension wasn't valid, so I tried dial by name and "Eisenhauer' wasn't recognized...uness it is misspelled from Matteroner's post above?

Btw, Matt, Mitch...those are some beautiful Brunswicks...I am jealous.
 
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