Copy joint

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok so I have this guy what wants me toe reproduce these two joint collars on to some sneaky peats. (he bought out Danny Veighs when they went out of business so he has I believe fifty of just the shafts with no butts) And it looks pretty straight forward I think. it looks like I can buy the ring here. http://www.muellers.com/BlackandBrass-8-Pair-Dash-ShaftandJoint-Ring,7662.html and I can get the brown phenolic here, http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=106&ITEM_ID=5890. but i am missing the colored rings and the regular wood rings. Could anyone do me a favor and check these out and make sure these are what I'm looking for.

Now I'm guessing the regular wood rings are maple, but are the colored rings maple as well that is just died and if so where can I get maple that has been died that color.

Second question is (and I know we can't discuss it on the main boards but someone can message me) what should I charge per stick. He is looking to buy a bunch of cheap $25 sneakys, Have me reproduce the colors on them, then either put inserts in these to make them work with the new sneakys or change the pins in the sneakys to fit this shaft. I have decided the inserts will be way easier so that is the rough i will go. But I'm still stuck on how much to charge per collar.

I know the ring is 2.65 and the brown phenolic will probably run a buck a foot. And I'm guessing getting either die and wood or getting died wood will cost me a small fortune. so I'm guessing after everything is all said and don't i will be into each collar less than ten. But i have never done a job like this to know what i should charge?

As usual any help wold be appreciated and thanks in advance. George
 

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cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
some better pics
 

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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Those are veneer rings .
You can buy the veneer sheets and cut your own rings .
The brown phenolic will be hard to color match. The stuff available now are tan.
 
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KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Sounds like you're ready for the deep end. Don't bench your life preserver just yet.
The dash ring you're contemplating buying isn't what you want.
It's brass inlaid into blk. phenolic. There is no brass on these shafts.
The inlaid mtrl. is Maple. The brown collars look different as in,
one is brown phenolic (which is no longer available) and the other is 'aged' natural phenolic.
It's not likely you'll find a match because the cut mtrl. has to age to achieve that color.

You'll need to determine the spacing of the Maple dashes in degrees of rotation.
You haven't mentioned the brands of shafts but I'm guessing they are not SW.
SW does everything in .030" and they vary the spacing of their dashes.
Your colored rings are made from dyed veneer in the appropriate thickness.

Other than that, you're all set. Good Luck.

KJ
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like you're ready for the deep end. Don't bench your life preserver just yet.
The dash ring you're contemplating buying isn't what you want.
It's brass inlaid into blk. phenolic. There is no brass on these shafts.
The inlaid mtrl. is Maple. The brown collars look different as in,
one is brown phenolic (which is no longer available) and the other is 'aged' natural phenolic.
It's not likely you'll find a match because the cut mtrl. has to age to achieve that color.

You'll need to determine the spacing of the Maple dashes in degrees of rotation.
You haven't mentioned the brands of shafts but I'm guessing they are not SW.
SW does everything in .030" and they vary the spacing of their dashes.
Your colored rings are made from dyed veneer in the appropriate thickness.

Other than that, you're all set. Good Luck.

KJ

Once you said the thing about the rings I went back and looked and I found another problem with them. They have 8 slot things and the collars have 6. Well sh*t. So what I'm hearing here, if I'm not mistaken, is I'm going to play hell trying to reproduce these collars and they won't be cheap, is that correct? Would I be better off trying to change the collars?

I didn't mention the brand of shaft because I don't know. The pin, at first, I thought was a southwest but I went to screw it onto a Nick Varner with a southwest pin and it wouldn't go on. It was definitely a southwest design but a different thread count. The guy I'm looking into this for bought out Danny Veighs in the area and they had a sh*t ton of these shafts in the back and no one knew anything about them.

So I guess the question I have is where do I go from here? What would be the cheapest avenue i should suggest to him?
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
OK, let's go back to zero and see if we can find a solution.
You want to adapt these shafts to sneaky petes.
True petes don't have jnt collars. When they do, they are generally solid black.
Changing the collars to black would be cake if you know how
and have the means to apply some type of finish.

On a side-note, these cues won't sell for much so you're not going to be paid much.
It sounds like the 'producer' is trying to sell you on 'right to work'.
IMO, the most efficient move for these shafts is to sell them outright and be done with it.

HTHs, KJ
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK, let's go back to zero and see if we can find a solution.
You want to adapt these shafts to sneaky petes.
True petes don't have jnt collars. When they do, they are generally solid black.
Changing the collars to black would be cake if you know how
and have the means to apply some type of finish.

On a side-note, these cues won't sell for much so you're not going to be paid much.
It sounds like the 'producer' is trying to sell you on 'right to work'.
IMO, the most efficient move for these shafts is to sell them outright and be done with it.

HTHs, KJ

What he want to do is have sneaky peats bought, then using these shafts make a collar that matches and put it on the sneaky pete, then a wrap, This way there is no other place to get them but from him. I guess he thinks exclusiveness = value, i don't know. I honestly don't care what he does with them as long as i get paid for the work. But i also don't want to sell myself short either. I told him sneakys have no joint collar and he said thats why mine will be unique. I also told him if he goes and buys a bunch of sneaky petes and uses the butts he will just have the same problem but instead of these shafts he will have the shafts from the sneakys. Apparently that isn't a problem for him either. The problem i see with selling them outright is the collar doesn't match anything out there so he still has to change the collar and the weird pin. I know one person with a southwest pin in the area and it is a 3/8-12 pin and these obviously are not the same pin because they cross thread after getting them about 4 threads on. i told him i can put inserts in them, and change them to black collars to make them easier to sell but he wants me to check on this first.
 

Paul Dayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Forget everything else. You will need to get a minimum of $20 per collar up front. So then the buyer will have $1000 worth of collars and shafts for which he doesn't have any butts, pins or anything else in a world where the cue market is almost dead. Guess how this is going to turn out. I wouldn't build them myself and I have everything needed. Do you have a drill press and forstner bit?
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Forget everything else. You will need to get a minimum of $20 per collar up front. So then the buyer will have $1000 worth of collars and shafts for which he doesn't have any butts, pins or anything else in a world where the cue market is almost dead. Guess how this is going to turn out. I wouldn't build them myself and I have everything needed. Do you have a drill press and forstner bit?

drill press yes forstner bit no but i have the ability to get one
 

Paul Dayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you use a forstner bit just clamp a bottom board to the table, stack your veneers under the bit and clamp another board down on top of the stack, then drill through the top board and veneers. This eliminates split veneers. It's still waaaaayyyyyyy too much work
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Also, you will need to make the maple slot rings yourself OR pay someone to.

He definitely wont pay the prices required to do them in bulk, and you won't want to do these one at a time.

Stacking the veneers isn't hard but the maple slot rings aren't just something to buy off the shelf.
 
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