Corey Deuel is the new U.S. National Snooker Champion.

Fatboy said:
all due respect to SVB he has ZERO chance with that "load it up" last stroke he seems to have developed the last few years, its less than it was, but he has no shot in proper snooker with his stroke. 3C he has a good shot, but not the little balls they dont need that force.
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Exactly that's why I said I will take Mr 400s stroke over Shane's every day of the week it's a much better foundation for snooker
And the absurd ridicules notion that we are all equally talented can't possibly be back up by any reasonable data , I just can't believe anyone would actually believe that


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JB Cases said:
I see no reason why top snooker players can't stay at the top well beyond 40 if they are fit and still desire to play.
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Eyesight is not the only barrier to playing top level snooker. As you age, your muscles weaken, meaning you have to adjust your stance slightly. This affected Steve Davis a while ago. You also lose concentration more easily, your judgment goes, you see things less clearly, your confidence is shot, fear creeps in, pressure increases etc etc. In short, there are a mixture of mental and physical factors that limit you as you age, which are applicable to almost all sports, I presume.

You'd have to be a freak to still be competitive at 40 IMO. Actually, it should be relatively easy to plot on a graph - peak performance is perhaps within the 22-28 range, with rapid decline in the late 30s. The fact there are no (or few) competitive players in their 40s speaks volumes, and proves the rule.
 
JB Cases said:
1. I agree with Steve Davis that a pool champion would most likely be a snooker champion if started out early with snooker.

2. I think it would be really hard to excel in snooker after 30 because the brain does not form myelin as well as we get older and societal pressures as an adult hinder learning. However I do sincerely believe in my heart that any top pool player if given a solid year or two of deeply immersive snooker training would emerge as one of the top 100 snooker players in the world. I would consider that a professional success IF one could make it to the top 100.

Corey has NO CHANCE doing it as a part time activity. Maybe no chance as a full time one either.

Regarding your earlier comment about Hendry retiring and so on, with any activity it gets tougher each year to be motivated for it. It's not just the eyesight, it's the desire. Once you have reached the pinnacle then there is no where else to go. It becomes a drudgery to go to event after event year after year and you simply don't want the pressure of being the one expected to win all the time.

I can agree that age slows some people down but at snooker or pool if there is no physical handicap then I think it's lack of desire and motivation more than anything else that leads to poorer performances.

Look at Efren winning so many championships after 40.

From Wikipedia:

The 2012 Betfred.com World Snooker Championship professional ranking snooker tournament took place from 21 April to 7 May 2012 at the Crucible Theatre in Sheffield, England. It was the 75th edition of the event,[1] and the last ranking event of the 2011/2012 season.[2]

Ronnie O'Sullivan won his fourth world title by defeating Ali Carter 18–11 in the final. John Higgins, the defending champion,[3] lost 4–13 to Stephen Hendry in the second round.[4] Aged 36, and just 55 days older than Dennis Taylor when winning the title in 1985, O'Sullivan became the oldest world champion since 45-year-old Ray Reardon in 1978.[5]

On the opening day of the televised stage Hendry made the 88th official maximum break, his third at the Crucible and the 11th of his career.[6] He announced his retirement from professional snooker following his loss to Stephen Maguire in the quarter-finals.[7]

Stephen Hendry made a maximum, his 88th. Ray Reardon won his last championship at 45 and now Ronnie has won at 36 and again at 37.

I see no reason why top snooker players can't stay at the top well beyond 40 if they are fit and still desire to play.
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Thanks for your reply JB, I think top 100 is a whole different world to reaching the later stages of tournements (eg the last 32 TV stage). I could accept top 100 as a more plausible argument if you look at the players around that rank, although still extremely unlikely, top 32 I'm afraid there is no chance but again it's an argument about opinion so there is no way of proving one right or wrong.

The average age of the snooker pros, eg top 16 decreased over the years. I very much doubt that the human race has evolved much over the last 40 years to an extent that the human ability to change it's desire to win has changed much at all. The reason it has changed is because competition has increased and there clearly is an physical advantage of being young in Snooker.

Eyesight starts to degrade in our mid teens and this is amplified more in Snooker than Pool for two reasons. 1) Due to the distance and tightness of the pockets, plus smaller balls, and 2) long distance potting is less important in pool than it is in snooker as matches can be won without it if someone such as Efren has a great cueball and safety game which of course he does.

btw, I actually think Corey could easily become a very good snooker break builder, I just don't think he would get many chances to apply those skills against top younger pro's as he wouldn't have the long game.

I'd love him to have a go though and wish him all the best
 
I once heard that when they were starting out, Alex and Corey went on the road together. If anyone knows either of them, it might be interesting to hear their views.

Although they grew up not that far from each other, their learning experiences must have been vastly different.

As has been pointed out around here, Alex had early exposure to snooker, and encountered some world class players - Cliff Thorburn was ranked #1 for a time. Alex was born in 1976. Thorburn won his third Masters in 1986. Other Canadians on the tour: Kirk Stevens, Bill Werbenuik, Alain Robidoux, Jim Wych. And there were plenty more at home slightly below them.

Alex won the Canadian Championship in 2011 and 2012. In the two finals he lost a total of 3 frames. With the wins came the option of heading off to the UK to try his luck. He didn't go despite the huge pots available.

So from where I sit, an American pool player making an impact on snooker is the same sort of wishful thinking as pool tournaments so vast in number and so great in prize money that all AZB posters can turn pro.:D

But it would be good to hear the views of these two players. :D
 
JB Cases said:
I hear you and you KNOW I respect your opinion. But having said that the very thing you said, practice 2-8 hours a day is what leads to people figuring out the shots that cause them to be called freaks of nature.

I can jump balls pretty good. Better than most and good enough to get actual applause once in a while for some of the jump shots I pull off. This isn't a talent. There was a point in 1999 AFTER I had already become a decent player and had some hardware to go with it that I found myself needing to know how to use a jump cue.

At my shop in Ilshofen Germany I started to practice with it and I flat sucked. It took me a good week to be able to keep the cue ball on the table. Nevertheless I kept practicing and also thinking about it. By the time we were set to leave for the show I had a decent routine worked out that I could hit pretty consistently to demonstrate the capability of the cue.

And I continued to challenge myself until there was almost nothing I couldn't do with a jump shot.

People actually told me I was talented because of it. I always said no I had to work on all these shots and figure them out. I developed methods to calculate the angles and worked out how much to choke up on the cue to increase or decrease power.

Later I taught all this to anyone who wanted to learn it. Point being that dedication and deep practice leads to insights and abilities that others don't acquire.

I think some people DO have more aptitude for things than other people do. Of course they do. Some people are attracted to numbers, to dancing, singing etc...and if they pursue it then they usually develop into getting pretty good at those things.

Is that talent? I don't know maybe. Our brains are more powerful than all the computers in the world in some ways. So who knows what we are really capable of. Corey is a beast I agree, but I honestly believe anyone who would have been around you and put in the same amount of dedication coupled with curiosity would have impressed you as much as well.
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You would agree that there are players that jump better than you, correct? And some of those players could do it with much less practice than you, right?

That doesn't mean a player can get up and jump on their first attempt, or that they'll be running racks right away.

Some people improve faster than others with much less effort. That doesn't mean they don't need practice, or wouldn't improve even more with practice.
 
Scaramouche said:
I once heard that when they were starting out, Alex and Corey went on the road together. If anyone knows either of them, it might be interesting to hear their views.
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They used to run together like 14 some years ago. Used to show up at some of the Camel stops just hanging around, but couldn't play due to their being under age.

Ask what broke up their partnership. :D

Having known Corey since he first walked into the pool room.
There is nothing he couldn't have done with a cue if he put his mind to it.

I don't care what game you throw at him. Pocket billiards, 3 cushion billiards, snooker.
If he had decided to take the time to figure it out when he was a kid, he would be near the top of said discipline. Period.
 
Pathetic Shark said:
She made a twenty break the first time she picked up a cue. That's talent. It'd take Ms Barton a month to make a twenty break now.
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That one's unbelievable, though I do believe in the concept of talent (and I saw she hit her first century within a year... unreal). But literally the first time picking up a cue? Got a link to an article or something?
 
CreeDo said:
That one's unbelievable, though I do believe in the concept of talent (and I saw she hit her first century within a year... unreal). But literally the first time picking up a cue? Got a link to an article or something?
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She said so in the interview linked earlier. I presume she'd played a bit of English pool or something beforehand, however.
 
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SakuJack said:
You just know he's going to offer to bet on this, don't you?
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Oh yeah. C'mon Joan, you got a month to make a twenty break from open play, ie showing the full frame, from the break off.

Do it and the very cheapest, erm, best pork pie will be heading your way before you know it. I'll even lob in some HP sauce for good measure.

ALL the video, mind - money ball included this time, please.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
I don't care what game you throw at him. Pocket billiards, 3 cushion billiards, snooker.
If he had decided to take the time to figure it out when he was a kid, he would be near the top of said discipline. Period.
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Pool is crushingly boring to watch, so I know little about him, but I've heard from several players CD's cue ball control is pretty poor for a pro.

CB control is everything with snooker.
 
Another interesting story that is kind of relevant...

I first saw Neil Robertson play when I played in a Snooker and Pool event in Australia about 10 years ago, I had heard a lot about him but when I first saw him I was appalled at his lack of cue ball control; his long potting of course was exceptional!

My friend at the time scoffed at my assessment (as he was Australian and slightly biased and in awe), I chuckled to myself this year when I heard the commentators talking at this world championships about Neils cue ball control and how it was much improved (but still not perfect). Neil of course won the ultimate prize, the world title in 2010.

I agree that cue ball control is MUCH more important in Snooker than in pool due to the pocket size. However more often than not the shot that starts the break will be from the long grass, it is quite scary the shots that the likes of Robertson and Judd pocket now a days.

If I had to pick an American pool player whom I thought would have the best chance it would be:

Danny Harriman - due to his shot making and 14.1 skills
Shane - due to his shot making and sheer dedication to his sport
 
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TheOne said:
Another interesting story that is kind of relevant...

I first saw Neil Robertson play when I played in a Snooker and Pool event in Australia about 10 years ago, I had heard a lot about him but when I first saw him I was appalled at his lack of cue ball control; his long potting of course was exceptional!

My friend at the time scoffed at my assessment (as he was Australian and slightly biased and in awe), I chuckled to myself this year when I heard the commentators talking at this world championships about Neils cue ball control and how it was much improved (but still not perfect). Neil of course won the ultimate prize, the world title in 2010.

I agree that cue ball control is MUCH more important in Snooker than in pool due to the pocket size. However more often than not the shot that starts the break will be from the long grass, it is quite scary the shots that the likes of Robertson and Judd pocket now a days.

If I had to pick an American pool player whom I thought would have the best chance it would be:

Danny Harriman - due to his shot making and 14.1 skills
Shane - due to his shot making and sheer dedication to his sport
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Good read, Craig. Nice to see you posting! :)
 
JAM said:
Good read, Craig. Nice to see you posting! :)
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Nice to see you're still around to JAM, go easy on me now! :)

Got a few months off coming up so thought why not, might even get to have a bash at a few balls along the way :)
 
BeiberLvr said:
You would agree that there are players that jump better than you, correct? And some of those players could do it with much less practice than you, right?

That doesn't mean a player can get up and jump on their first attempt, or that they'll be running racks right away.

Some people improve faster than others with much less effort. That doesn't mean they don't need practice, or wouldn't improve even more with practice.
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In all my travels I have never met any one who was not already a better player than me who could jump better than me with less practice.

Only the better players were more consistent but generally not as knowledgable.
 
Congrats to Corey winning this Championship. The second biggest surprise (reading the AZ article ) to me is realizing he is 35 years old. I still see him as a kid. Getting old I guess.

Glad to see him win it.
 
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