Coring, tolerances?

I just got a PM from a cuemaker who has mastered the method I described by taping off the last inch, removing the tape, cleaning off the gorilla glue and then applying the epoxy. He says it stopped his rings from popping as the gorilla glue was allowing some ring movement. So my theory has already been tested. There is indeed nothing new under the sun.
 
cueman said:
I just got a PM from a cuemaker who has mastered the method I described by taping off the last inch, removing the tape, cleaning off the gorilla glue and then applying the epoxy. He says it stopped his rings from popping as the gorilla glue was allowing some ring movement. So my theory has already been tested. There is indeed nothing new under the sun.
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And there you have it. Defined "mastered"? I've been at this for over 20 years and haven't mastered shit! The wheel is round for a reason. You change it to any other shape and I highly doubt you'll get the same end result. Chris, you've been building cues for a long time. I would think your experimentation days were over long ago. I'm not talking about inlay designs or tweaking little nuances. I'm suggesting that your very basic hard to the core construction methods should have found their sweet spot by now.
I experimented for around the first five years and haven't change not one major construction method in the last 12-15 years. WHY? Because my customers continually tell me that I'm doing something correct. If I wasn't constantly getting that feed back I'd certainly still be experimenting with new stuff.

This whole thread reminds me of a NASCAR incident that happened years ago before they destroyed the sport with the COT.
Tires are round and made of rubber and have been for a very long time. Why do you think that is? Because it's a method that is TRIED AND PROVEN.
One big time race...don't remember exactly which one...Goodyear decided to change the compound used in the rubber for the tires with an unproven and seemingly untried compound. Now the tires were still round and still made out of rubber BUT during the race they had more flat tires and more tire induced wrecks than in any other race in the history of the sport. All because some "master" engineer had a brain fart.
They almost had to call the race because all the pits were out of replacement tires for the last 25 laps of the race. One little thing changed...all the rest was the same.

I'll stick to a TRIED and PROVEN method over haphazard experimentation anytime.
 
good lord....what did you old timers do before AZ billiards existed? Please dont tell me you actually experimented and developed your own methods

So after thinking about it....My theory is that the "ask the cuemaker" and "cue machinery" sub forums are likely the major contributing factor to the decline in the custom cue market. The total un-moderated mis-use of the ask the cuemaker forum has allowed anyone the ability to become a cuemaker overnite. Theres not much trial and error anymore as someone has already done the hard work. Now custom cues are being spit out faster than the market can handle it because some guy learned how to build cues in a few hours after reading AZ billiards.

Another realization that i had was that while i dont always agree with methods or logic of guys like Mike, Dave, Chris or KJ (OG's) that i should atleast respect it since they likely arrived at there process via hard work and failure in lieu of just reading it off of a website.
 
cueman said:
I just got a PM from a cuemaker who has mastered the method I described by taping off the last inch, removing the tape, cleaning off the gorilla glue and then applying the epoxy. He says it stopped his rings from popping as the gorilla glue was allowing some ring movement. So my theory has already been tested. There is indeed nothing new under the sun.
Click to expand...


I'll give you credit for something. You got me laughing. Good for you, I think!
 
LGSM3 said:
good lord....what did you old timers do before AZ billiards existed? Please dont tell me you actually experimented and developed your own methods

So after thinking about it....My theory is that the "ask the cuemaker" and "cue machinery" sub forums are likely the major contributing factor to the decline in the custom cue market. The total un-moderated mis-use of the ask the cuemaker forum has allowed anyone the ability to become a cuemaker overnite. Theres not much trial and error anymore as someone has already done the hard work. Now custom cues are being spit out faster than the market can handle it because some guy learned how to build cues in a few hours after reading AZ billiards.

Another realization that i had was that while i dont always agree with methods or logic of guys like Mike, Dave, Chris or KJ (OG's) that i should atleast respect it since they likely arrived at there process via hard work and failure in lieu of just reading it off of a website.
Click to expand...


I respect the way you think.
Yep...I'm old but still above ground. :thumbup:
 
I don't know where the last inch is.
And why it's smaller than the ring's ID.
If you core the forearm at over .625", you can take down the exposed part of the dowel for tenon .

If you keep the bottom at over .750", you can take it down later for the 3/4 ID rings.

Let's just have two round-of numbers.
.700" the first 6 inches ( from the top ), .800" the next 6" to the bottom.
The dowel will butt in square inside the sleeve where .700-.800 holes meet.

I don't know who wrote the book where it specifically calls for one size dowel going through the sleeve.
I'm gonna argue a step core is much better. It doesn't rely on the glue to hold the dowel from going forward.
I'm gonna argue having two different size holes make it easier in avoiding dry spots.
 
I'm gonna argue that honestly I could care less how anybody puts their cues together.
If a peanut butter with coconut oil mixture works for you holding things together go for it.
Just use your brain and some common sense for the name of holy happiness.
Once you find your sweetness why mess around anymore.
I like the Henry Ford attitude....you can have any color car you want....as long as it's black! ;)
 
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Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I use the poly glues and then slice between, I don't see the foam as being described, but just glue. But I am a cut and try person and do test what I am doing. The tooth fairy can't be relied upon anymore.
Neil
 
conetip said:
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I use the poly glues and then slice between, I don't see the foam as being described, but just glue. But I am a cut and try person and do test what I am doing. The tooth fairy can't be relied upon anymore.
Neil
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Haha...........that might be your first clue! LOL

Can you point out where this foam is being described?
 
conetip said:
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I use the poly glues and then slice between, I don't see the foam as being described, but just glue. But I am a cut and try person and do test what I am doing. The tooth fairy can't be relied upon anymore.
Neil
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It will help if you mention what PU you use.
Almost everyone here assumes Gorilla glue is the only PU glue there is.
It's the thickest and most foamy PU glue there is .
If you only shop at Home Depot here, that might be the only one you'd see.

Excel One ?
 
I'm using Purbond PU. It's a commercial product, not a retail product. It comes in Nitrogen filled bottles and is intended to be used in 1 week from opening the bottle.
Once activated sets in 2 hours, but if left on the bench takes like 2 days to set. If it is in the open it foams, if confined, it is like any other glue. HB S409 from Purbond.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Excel One ?
Click to expand...

That foams up too. Not as much as Gorilla Glue. Excel One is generally a much better glue. It would probably be my first choice if I wanted a PU. You shouldn't really see the foamies in a reasonably tight joint regardless, though. If you've used it, you know the foam has the consistency of...well....foam. If that's all that was holding in the core, it probably wouldn't even survive the rest of the building process.

I really dislike Titebond's PU, though. Just thought I'd toss that out there.
 
conetip said:
I'm using Purbond PU. It's a commercial product, not a retail product. It comes in Nitrogen filled bottles and is intended to be used in 1 week from opening the bottle.
Once activated sets in 2 hours, but if left on the bench takes like 2 days to set. If it is in the open it foams, if confined, it is like any other glue. HB S409 from Purbond.
Click to expand...

I actually looked for that not too long ago for a project I was working on. I wanted to try something new. Couldn't find a US source for it. At least not a retail source. I could probably find an industrial supplier if I really wanted to, though I doubt they'd want to sell be a small bottle. :)

I'd like to try it if I could find some sort of retail source for it.
 
john coloccia said:
That foams up too. Not as much as Gorilla Glue. Excel One is generally a much better glue. It would probably be my first choice if I wanted a PU. You shouldn't really see the foamies in a reasonably tight joint regardless, though. If you've used it, you know the foam has the consistency of...well....foam. If that's all that was holding in the core, it probably wouldn't even survive the rest of the building process.

I really dislike Titebond's PU, though. Just thought I'd toss that out there.
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Titebond's PU is probably the worst PU around.

Titebond's melamine glue is pretty good though.
I've used it on leather wrap and tips ( overnight clamping method ).
 
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I core with Titebond PU. Just straight, relatively common size cores, relatively common technique. By reading this thread I must assume every Sugartree cue made in the last decade or so hits like a piece of rolled carpet, if it hasn't already disintegrated into a hundred pieces. Sometimes (a lot of times) I wonder if these forums are for discussing actual cue making, or just a place to shoot the breeze & see who can out do the other guy with his fancy techniques & expensive glues. If I thought that people were using my cues to sword fight or harpoon whales, then a more bullet proof construction may be appropriate. But they're not. They use my cues to play pool. As such, I build them with pool playing in mind. Would my poly glue bond fail if I used a cue in place of a fishing rod? Probably so. Will it fail if I use it to play pool? Not in my lifetime.
 
Coring

"They use my cues to play pool. As such, I build them with pool playing in mind. Would my poly glue bond fail if I used a cue in place of a fishing rod? Probably so. Will it fail if I use it to play pool? Not in my lifetime".

AMEN to that, Eric

TIP: Thread your butt cap and all your troubles disappear like magic.
 
I have started using a tapered core. It has eliminated a lot of issues and dont have to worry about dry spots using epoxy.
 
I've used Gorilla brand PU, and it worked fine but the bottle goes bad before getting 1/3 thru it. I now use Titebond PU, and IMO, it works just as good as Gorilla but I get to use most, if not all of the bottle. I use a moist towel to wipe down the core dowel, then apply glue to both pieces and assemble. Had no problems yet, and I agree with Eric, my cues will last longer than me...and way past my kids.
Dave
 
LGSM3 said:
good lord....what did you old timers do before AZ billiards existed? Please dont tell me you actually experimented and developed your own methods

So after thinking about it....My theory is that the "ask the cuemaker" and "cue machinery" sub forums are likely the major contributing factor to the decline in the custom cue market. The total un-moderated mis-use of the ask the cuemaker forum has allowed anyone the ability to become a cuemaker overnite. Theres not much trial and error anymore as someone has already done the hard work. Now custom cues are being spit out faster than the market can handle it because some guy learned how to build cues in a few hours after reading AZ billiards.

Another realization that i had was that while i dont always agree with methods or logic of guys like Mike, Dave, Chris or KJ (OG's) that i should atleast respect it since they likely arrived at there process via hard work and failure in lieu of just reading it off of a website.
Click to expand...

Haha...isn't that what this forum is for? Come here, read, and be a master faster than the time it takes for a piece of exotic wood to dry out! ;)

ratcues
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarenbruggeCues View Post
If a peanut butter with coconut oil mixture works for you holding things together go for it.

I told you that in confidence!

#tradesecret
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Oh no...was that my inner voice typing again?
Bad fingers BAD BAD BAD
Now go to the shop and never leave again. :rolleyes:


.......looking for a new inner circle that I can more easily persuade with my uncanny wit and handsome charm. :cool:
 
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