Coring wood question

[Coos Cues]

A bored hole the finish diameter of your gun drill and about half the length of your gun drill tip in the end of the butt is all you need. There is no need for expensive or exotic special tooling. Bore the hole, guide gun drill in it and begin with low rpm and light pressure so as not to instigate wobble or runout. Once the gun drill tip is fully engaged and doing what it's designed to do you can increase rpms. No need to make it any harder than that.

Now I'm really confused. Didn't you just say boring isn't the right way to do it? You have now described pretty much exactly what I said I do. It's been my experience that I get the best results in wood with a thou clearance. less than that you're getting on a press fit of the end of the gun drill into the wood. Did I miss something? BTW I have tried a centered bushing out of delrin held in my tool holder as there has been previous discussion of this and my results were not good compared to boring a pilot hole. Maybe gun drilling steel is a different animal and we are just making due with wood with a tool not really designed for the job?

 

[Renegade_56]

Now I'm really confused. Didn't you just say boring isn't the right way to do it? You have now described pretty much exactly what I said I do. It's been my experience that I get the best results in wood with a thou clearance. less than that you're getting on a press fit of the end of the gun drill into the wood. Did I miss something? BTW I have tried a centered bushing out of delrin held in my tool holder as there has been previous discussion of this and my results were not good compared to boring a pilot hole. Maybe gun drilling steel is a different animal and we are just making due with wood with a tool not really designed for the job?

no, I said a pilot hole for a gun drill is useless,,,,,,,,,,,, basically though if your purpose is a guide hole for the gun drill it's a waste of time and not needed. What I am suggesting with the counterbore is just to stabilize the tip of the gun drill when you begin the gun drilling op. It is not needed to get the gun drill to find it's own center, but likely is safer.

 

[Renegade_56]

Got pics how you mount that bushing?

Forget the bushing, just counterbore the end of the cue blank, or don't. It isn't a requirement for the gun drill to work correctly, but it may keep someone from ruining their gun drill.

 

[whammo57]

I never drill or bore a pilot hole............ I use a bushing in a steady rest to start the drill........... I drill from both ends and not all the way through............. in burls you can split or chip out when the drill exits the other end................ the 2 holes do match up pretty close in the middle....................

 

[JoeyInCali]

no, I said a pilot hole for a gun drill is useless,,,,,,,,,,,, basically though if your purpose is a guide hole for the gun drill it's a waste of time and not needed. What I am suggesting with the counterbore is just to stabilize the tip of the gun drill when you begin the gun drilling op. It is not needed to get the gun drill to find it's own center, but likely is safer.

How is that a waste of TIME ?
Setting up a guide WOULD TAKE MORE TIME .
Specially if you use two or more sizes ( as I do ) .
Let's say your hole size needs to be .650.
Grab a 5/8 fostner bit , drill 5/8.
Bore ( I use a Makita router but a conventional borer will do ) to .650.
Drill away .

And I still want to see how you set up that bushing on a conventional lathe .
Those rifle drilling machines have fancy steady rests .
We don't .

 

[JoeyInCali]

Now I'm really confused. Didn't you just say boring isn't the right way to do it? You have now described pretty much exactly what I said I do. It's been my experience that I get the best results in wood with a thou clearance. less than that you're getting on a press fit of the end of the gun drill into the wood. Did I miss something? BTW I have tried a centered bushing out of delrin held in my tool holder as there has been previous discussion of this and my results were not good compared to boring a pilot hole. Maybe gun drilling steel is a different animal and we are just making due with wood with a tool not really designed for the job?

Just get this machine . Your wealthy, you can afford it .

 

[Renegade_56]

How is that a waste of TIME ?
Setting up a guide WOULD TAKE MORE TIME .
Specially if you use two or more sizes ( as I do ) .
Let's say your hole size needs to be .650.
Grab a 5/8 fostner bit , drill 5/8.
Bore ( I use a Makita router but a conventional borer will do ) to .650.
Drill away .

And I still want to see how you set up that bushing on a conventional lathe .
Those rifle drilling machines have fancy steady rests .
We don't .

I have set up and ran those gun drilling machines and they do not have fancy steady rests for the gun drill. They have a guide to hold it on center until it engages. I have also done barrel rifling, a whole entirely different animal.

I'm sorry you don't understand but I have told you as simple as I can. You keep trying to engineer a process that the tool is already designed to do.

Why do you think the pilot diameter of a gun drill is finish size? That alone should tell you what I have said is correct.

I knew a few of you would "correct me" but I also believe I probably helped a few of you understand, which was the only reason I spoke up. Now I'm done.

 

[Renegade_56]

I never drill or bore a pilot hole............ I use a bushing in a steady rest to start the drill........... I drill from both ends and not all the way through............. in burls you can split or chip out when the drill exits the other end................ the 2 holes do match up pretty close in the middle....................

Exactly!

 

[JoeyInCali]

I have set up and ran those gun drilling machines and they do not have fancy steady rests for the gun drill. They have a guide to hold it on center until it engages. I have also done barrel rifling, a whole entirely different animal.

I'm sorry you don't understand but I have told you as simple as I can. You keep trying to engineer a process that the tool is already designed to do.

Why do you think the pilot diameter of a gun drill is finish size? That alone should tell you what I have said is correct.

I knew a few of you would "correct me" but I also believe I probably helped a few of you understand, which was the only reason I spoke up. Now I'm done.

Ok.
So, you have not tested it in cue making.

Those barrels are still cold hammer forged after drill afaik. The holes are still not that accurate so they are hammered with precision rod inside. Then are rifled.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I never drill or bore a pilot hole............ I use a bushing in a steady rest to start the drill........... I drill from both ends and not all the way through............. in burls you can split or chip out when the drill exits the other end................ the 2 holes do match up pretty close in the middle....................

Bore the exit hole and flipping wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Coos Cues]

I never drill or bore a pilot hole............ I use a bushing in a steady rest to start the drill........... I drill from both ends and not all the way through............. in burls you can split or chip out when the drill exits the other end................ the 2 holes do match up pretty close in the middle....................

Pretty close? I thought that's what we were trying to address here, making pretty close precise.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You can always bore for more precision.

 

[kling&allen]

You can always bore for more precision.

Bore the entire forearm?

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

You can always bore for more precision.

It's an extra step but the end results are a superior method to slamming everything together on a 30" rod and filling the gaps with gorilla glue.
Food for thought....

 

[JoeyInCali]

Bore the entire forearm?

and handle if you want. Just need to flip them .

 

[Coos Cues]

You can always bore for more precision.

my experience is that even if the hole isn't dead center it is round and concentric to itself with very tight tolerances. No gaps to fill with poly glue. As long as you face the bored wood to the ID before joining it's quite precise. Not sure boring off the OD is an improvement if you need to change ends to come from both directions. The longer the bar the more chatter comes into play.

 

[robbycar]

Ok.
So, you have not tested it in cue making.

Those barrels are still cold hammer forged after drill afaik. The holes are still not that accurate so they are hammered with precision rod inside. Then are rifled.

Actually most precision rifle barrels these days are button rifled with a hydraulic ram, or cut rifled. Hammer forging is not that popular any more.

 

[JoeyInCali]

my experience is that even if the hole isn't dead center it is round and concentric to itself with very tight tolerances. No gaps to fill with poly glue. As long as you face the bored wood to the ID before joining it's quite precise. Not sure boring off the OD is an improvement if you need to change ends to come from both directions. The longer the bar the more chatter comes into play.

No chatter in power feed and boring for finish size.
I hog out manually then power feed for finish cut. It's so smooth , I use a steel brush to rough the inside.

 

[Canadian cue]

I will share my process, I start with a piece rough tapered to size and set it up in a steady rest. My reasons for doing it this way is it allows me to be sure that the piece is running concentric. I hold it in the steady with tapered bushings so as I am not squeezing the gun drill with my work holding. I start by boring an accurate pilot for the first half inch then proceed to gundrill it up to the last half in or so. I will then taper bore about 3/4 of the length for a dowel that has been machined to match. the taper allows you to install the core without wiping off all the glue as you push the two together. There are other little details that help as well as far as grain orientation, clearance and wood combos. Those are aspects that everyone has to experiment and decide for themselves. Generally I core for stability and weight distribution. Although if you were building a cue with a nice resonating wood like Brazilian Rosewood why would you ruin the hit by coring it? Coring has its purposes but shouldn't be a blanket solution to every build IMHO.

 

[whammo57]

Pretty close? I thought that's what we were trying to address here, making pretty close precise.

just how precise do you think it has to be????? if you can slide your coring dowel through it........... isn't it close enough????