Cosmic Aiming

The Geometric aiming thread brought a lot of responses and views. For the people that say they use "NO AIMING SYSTEM", or, "DEVELOP THEIR OWN AIMING SYSTEM" over time and throw out the beginner stuff, I say hogwash.

The "Develop their own aiming system" theory kinda falls apart when you start extrapolating the shear number of players out there. In other words, if we take 200 players here on AZ, each of us would have developed our own method of aiming over time. Well, 200 ways don't exist. What's even worse is, if there are 20 million people playing this game throughout the world, that means there are 20 MILLION different ways of aiming and setting up to a shot.
There aren't 20 million different ways to aim the CB to OB and line it up to the pocket.

And if all 20 million players use "No Aiming System", that means that NOBODY knows where the hell they're aiming or shooting to.

Stretching it somewhat, I'd say there might be about 6 ways of aiming that most players use and truth of the matter is there's probably 3 that are the dominant ones. Anything that we come up with individually is just an offshoot of those few, so it becomes ours. There aren't 20 million creative geniuses out there to come up with something totally new and different.
What's really amazing is, that anybody that has their "OWN" aiming method can't even describe it and put it into words or writing. How can that be?

Before I get into Cosmic Aiming, let's look at "traditional aiming". Place an OB anywhere on the table. Now walk behind it and line yourself up to a pocket. Draw an imaginary line from the dead center of the pocket through the dead center of the ball and where it exits is what is usually known as the "contact point". This becomes the primary focus of setting up, aligning yourself, and trying to get the CB to strike.

Now, take 2 steps in either direction and again look at the ball and find the dead center of it from this new position that you just moved your body into. What you'll see if you draw a line straight through it is that it's now going into a cushion far from the pocket. Uner Hal's method of aiming, THIS NEW CENTER, regardless of your position on the table, is where your primary focus is and you work around THAT. NOT THE OLD CENTER CONTACT POINT FROM POCKET THROUGH BALL. It's the CENTER from where your CB and OB are in alignment. At other times you're working off of edges. He calls it rotating/revolving centers, and it's easy to see because anytime you move in one direction or another just slightly, the center of the OB changes.

That's all I have to say about it. It's 3-dimensional in nature, if you want to call it cosmic, heresy, malarkey, bullcrap, or whatever, it's only because you don't know it, don't understand it, and don't know how to execute it.

That having been said, can anyone give me a clear cut articulated explanation of how THEY do it? If you want Hal's, talk to the man himself.
'Nuff said.
 
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In the other thread I tried to simplify this and I don't think I went simple enough. I'll take it a little farther. Lets skip the cut shot. Lets even skip the straight in shot. Lets say for what ever reason (I've seen it done) your going to foul on purpose, you don't want to disturb any balls so your going to hit the cue ball straight into the pocket.

How do you get the cue ball to go straight into the pocket? Your aiming system.
 
CaptainJR said:
In the other thread I tried to simplify this and I don't think I went simple enough. I'll take it a little farther. Lets skip the cut shot. Lets even skip the straight in shot. Lets say for what ever reason (I've seen it done) your going to foul on purpose, you don't want to disturb any balls so your going to hit the cue ball straight into the pocket.

How do you get the cue ball to go straight into the pocket? Your aiming system.


Very good point Cappy...that's about as simple as you can get. One step harder would be...If the CB is on the head spot, how do you aim to the middle diamond on the foot rail if you want it to come straight back to the tip of your cue? How do you do that??? What is your aiming system??
 
If the CB is on the head spot, how do you aim to the middle diamond on the foot rail if you want it to come straight back to the tip of your cue? How do you do that??? What is your aiming system??
I'd shoot the ball straight down the rail. :p
 
CaptainJR said:
In the other thread I tried to simplify this and I don't think I went simple enough. I'll take it a little farther. Lets skip the cut shot. Lets even skip the straight in shot. Lets say for what ever reason (I've seen it done) your going to foul on purpose, you don't want to disturb any balls so your going to hit the cue ball straight into the pocket.

How do you get the cue ball to go straight into the pocket? Your aiming system.

Captain I understood your method of aim in the first thread. It's matching contact points and it's my system in a nutshell.
If you want an object ball to travel along the end rail from right to left into the pocket that object ball must be struck by a very specific part of the cue ball. That part is the part of the cue ball that is closest to the left side cushion, no matter where the cue ball is or what angle you have. That is parallel lines and matching contact points.
We use the same system. I just number all the contact points so it's easier for me to relate quickly to the contact point on the front of the cue ball.
(9's on both balls always point to the side cushions and 0's always point to the end rails.) So anything along the end rail is 9-9 contact points and any shots along the long side rails are 0-0 contact points. Spot shots represent 4.5's, the exact middle of 0 and 9.
What I don't understand is your question about how to aim the cue ball into the pocket.

Drivermaker you'll be amazed at how many people don't know or can't explain how they aim. Never mind put it in words or writing. I've asked hundreds of players how they do it, from intermediate to World Class and very, very few have actually spit out a physically correct or explainable answer. Most do it on a subconscious level and many get almost phobic when you bring it to a conscious level. I teach my method and sometimes get responses like " oh I can't do that, it screws me up ". And I'm like, what part of knowing the exact answer of how to aim the shot is it that screws you up???

Joe T
Always trying to improve my perception of aim as well as others with Aiming By The Numbers
 
Joe T said:
Drivermaker you'll be amazed at how many people don't know or can't explain how they aim.

I am one of these people. Aiming system? I am sure I use one, do I know which one or how I aim? Not a clue.
Now heres a thought. What if all these aiming systems that you buy improve your game not because they are better then any other one, but because if you take the time to buy something, you are more likely to go out and practice hitting balls? What if its the practice, not the method that helps?

Just my 2 cents.
 
Joe T said:
Captain I understood your method of aim in the first thread. It's matching contact points and it's my system in a nutshell.
If you want an object ball to travel along the end rail from right to left into the pocket that object ball must be struck by a very specific part of the cue ball. That part is the part of the cue ball that is closest to the left side cushion, no matter where the cue ball is or what angle you have. That is parallel lines and matching contact points.
We use the same system. I just number all the contact points so it's easier for me to relate quickly to the contact point on the front of the cue ball.
(9's on both balls always point to the side cushions and 0's always point to the end rails.) So anything along the end rail is 9-9 contact points and any shots along the long side rails are 0-0 contact points. Spot shots represent 4.5's, the exact middle of 0 and 9.
What I don't understand is your question about how to aim the cue ball into the pocket.

Drivermaker you'll be amazed at how many people don't know or can't explain how they aim. Never mind put it in words or writing. I've asked hundreds of players how they do it, from intermediate to World Class and very, very few have actually spit out a physically correct or explainable answer. Most do it on a subconscious level and many get almost phobic when you bring it to a conscious level. I teach my method and sometimes get responses like " oh I can't do that, it screws me up ". And I'm like, what part of knowing the exact answer of how to aim the shot is it that screws you up???

Joe T
Always trying to improve my perception of aim as well as others with Aiming By The Numbers


Aiming system for shooting the cue into the pocket. I line up my back hand (back of cue), my front hand (front of cue), my right eye, the tip of the cue, and the cue ball all toward the pocket.

This would be the final step in lining up a cut shot after figuring out contact points. Then instead of using the word pocket in the above sentence, you would use the spot the cue needs to go to make the contact points meet.

This is all assuming your using not english. If you are then you would have to adjust for throw and such.
 
Joe T said:
What I don't understand is your question about how to aim the cue ball into the pocket.


Joe T
Always trying to improve my perception of aim as well as others with Aiming By The Numbers

I think I might have misread your sentence above. At first I thought you wanted to know what I do. Then I read it again and thought you might have thought I was asking a question. I wasn't asking a question, I was just emphasizing that everyone uses a system.
 
Joe T said:
I just number all the contact points so it's easier for me to relate quickly to the contact point on the front of the cue ball.
(9's on both balls always point to the side cushions and 0's always point to the end rails.) So anything along the end rail is 9-9 contact points and any shots along the long side rails are 0-0 contact points. Spot shots represent 4.5's, the exact middle of 0 and 9.


I really like the idea of numbering the contact points. I was thinking about it and thought for me it would be easier to use the numbers on a clock. Since clocks are round (most anyway), you could use the minutes. Using the short rails as the top and bottom of the clock (12 o'clock, 0 minutes; 6 o'clock, 30 minutes) If the object ball contact point is at 35 minutes than the contact point on the cue ball would be at 5 minutes.

This is interesting thinking.
 
Wild Eight said:
I am one of these people. Aiming system? I am sure I use one, do I know which one or how I aim? Not a clue.
Now heres a thought. What if all these aiming systems that you buy improve your game not because they are better then any other one, but because if you take the time to buy something, you are more likely to go out and practice hitting balls? What if its the practice, not the method that helps?

Just my 2 cents.

Wild Eight I believe it's probably both. But if someone were to go practice their aim for say 80hrs on their own as opposed to 80hrs with an aiming system that is proven. I think the latter player would improve and retain more than the player that had no set structure or system.
At the end of my instruction booklet I wrote practice, practice, practice play. I believe practice to be the most important tool out there.

Joe T
 
drivermaker said:
The Geometric aiming thread brought a lot of responses and views. For the people that say they use "NO AIMING SYSTEM", or, "DEVELOP THEIR OWN AIMING SYSTEM" over time and throw out the beginner stuff, I say hogwash.

The "Develop their own aiming system" theory kinda falls apart when you start extrapolating the shear number of players out there. In other words, if we take 200 players here on AZ, each of us would have developed our own method of aiming over time. Well, 200 ways don't exist. What's even worse is, if there are 20 million people playing this game throughout the world, that means there are 20 MILLION different ways of aiming and setting up to a shot.
There aren't 20 million different ways to aim the CB to OB and line it up to the pocket.

Your argument is based on an assumption you can't prove. You assume that there can't possibly be a different way for everyone to aim. I don't think that's a valid assumption. No two people think alike. Since thought processes are all different, the inner mechanisms of HOW we do things is different, even though the end result may be the same.

drivermaker said:
And if all 20 million players use "No Aiming System", that means that NOBODY knows where the hell they're aiming or shooting to.

Only in YOUR mind, simply because YOU believe someone HAS to have and use a hard, fast, defined system, possibly one of the 6 you talk about below.

drivermaker said:
Stretching it somewhat, I'd say there might be about 6 ways of aiming that most players use and truth of the matter is there's probably 3 that are the dominant ones. Anything that we come up with individually is just an offshoot of those few, so it becomes ours. There aren't 20 million creative geniuses out there to come up with something totally new and different.
What's really amazing is, that anybody that has their "OWN" aiming method can't even describe it and put it into words or writing. How can that be?

I totally disagree. There are plenty of people who play pool and have NEVER been told about any aiming "system."

Question: you're supposed to be a golf pro, what is your "system" for putting? List every single thought that comes into your head when you putt. Can you do it? Does it really enter your head that you have to have your hands at a certain angle and what that angle is, so many Newtons of force have to be used, foot position needs to be here, head position needs to be here, sunlight and parallax are altering perception, etc? Do you think other people have the same thoughts, or even need to? In reality, doesn't there reach a point where putting is "feel?" Doesn't everyone "feel" differently? Let's use something else, like language. Can you list WHY you choose certain words, or the order in which you put them? Will any two people use language exactly the same way? Doesn't everyone speak differently, even though we all use the same alphabet?

I'd say that when it comes to HOW we think, we're all creative geniuses. Once again, no two people think alike, so by extension, WHAT they think is totally new and different.

drivermaker said:
Before I get into Cosmic Aiming, let's look at "traditional aiming". Place an OB anywhere on the table. Now walk behind it and line yourself up to a pocket. Draw an imaginary line from the dead center of the pocket through the dead center of the ball and where it exits is what is usually known as the "contact point". This becomes the primary focus of setting up, aligning yourself, and trying to get the CB to strike.

For whatever method anyone uses, this is probably always the first step. The CB must be delivered to the target, which is the supposed contact point (I call it supposed because we can't always see the contact point, and contact points can change). Finding the target in and of itself is not an aiming system. The method the mind uses to figure out how to get the CB to the contact point is the aiming "system." I believe we all think differently, therefore those methods of the mind are going to be different and unique to each individual.

drivermaker said:
Now, take 2 steps in either direction and again look at the ball and find the dead center of it from this new position that you just moved your body into. What you'll see if you draw a line straight through it is that it's now going into a cushion far from the pocket. Uner Hal's method of aiming, THIS NEW CENTER, regardless of your position on the table, is where your primary focus is and you work around THAT. NOT THE OLD CENTER CONTACT POINT FROM POCKET THROUGH BALL. It's the CENTER from where your CB and OB are in alignment. At other times you're working off of edges. He calls it rotating/revolving centers, and it's easy to see because anytime you move in one direction or another just slightly, the center of the OB changes.

That's all I have to say about it. It's 3-dimensional in nature, if you want to call it cosmic, heresy, malarkey, bullcrap, or whatever, it's only because you don't know it, don't understand it, and don't know how to execute it.

That having been said, can anyone give me a clear cut articulated explanation of how THEY do it? If you want Hal's, talk to the man himself.
'Nuff said.

I think what it all boils down to is that a "system," like ghost ball, or Hal's, or railroad tracks, or parallelograms, or overlapping circles, or whatever, is only a starting point. Think of the English language. We all learn the same alphabet, but none of us speak or write exactly the same. None of us use the same inflections, rhythms, and patterns. We take what we learn (the alphabet), and make it uniquely our own. If there are any musicians out there, the same is also true for you (us). There are only 12 notes in an octave, but in a solo, no two musicians will choose the notes, choose the phrasing of those notes, or vibrato the same. The end result (expression of an idea) is generally the same, but how we get there is totally different and unique. The same applies to aiming. The end result (CB hitting the target) is generally the same, but how we get there is totally different and unique to the individual. No single system, or 3, or 6, or a thousand "systems" could possibly cover each individual's particular way of thinking.

-djb <-- sorry about the long post
 
DoomCue said:
-djb <-- sorry about the long post


Phewww.......thanks, that's the most thoughtful thing you've ever said. Now, go read some of the other posts on this thread and the new one on geometric systems and respond to them. I'm plumb tuckered out.......
 
Here is how i aim.

Look at the table.

Look at the shot at hand.

Look where the CB needs to go.

Mentally compute the offset of the target for speed, spin (if any), or as most would put it, compensate for "deflection".

Find the line.

Get down on that line.

Stroke, Stroke, Stroke, Pause, and go with it.

All of this happens in the time it takes me to get up from the previous shot into position (bodily, not CB position) for the next. Most people compute all of this in a split second without thinking about it, as in THEY KNOW WHERE TO HIT given the situation.

For me? It's that simple. I rarely "aim up" a shot, but as DaFatMan reminds me (not too much lately... maybe he got a life :p ) i should every now and then, to keep everything in check.

Now the problem with the "feel approach". When a person does everything with out thinking, and goes by feel. Sometimes you get completely out of sync and you don't know it. That is my problem sometimes. I need to beat a mental list into my head, to make sure everything is ok. As in, my stance might be a little off etc.

How many others here do this:
Look at a shot, you know (approx.) where the tip should stroke through the CB for position, and just get down and shoot the shot, without thinking? My guess is a lot.

Thanks,

Jon
 
Aiming

Some very good points made in this thread. One thing that has become clear to me is that there seems to be as many aiming systems as teachers...odd? lol. It's important to keep in mind however that the only "good" system is the one that consistantly makes balls for YOU. Different shots also require different perspectives. For instance if your a 'look at the ob last' shooter and you find yourself jacked up for a shot, you might like to aim by the "spot in front of the cue ball method" to keep your head down. This realy works. Faith baby faith.

I'm familiar with lots of "systems" and i use them all because i find one more reliable than others for certain shots. In this game of infinite variations and possabilitys one size does not fit all.

Just to add to the plethora of systems (been dying to use that word) here's one i use for shots to any corner pocket. Here we go.....

I call it "The Box". It's so easy to visualize that it's realy hard to even miss the contact point. The ob is one corner of the box with an imaginary line to the side rail, and another imaginary line running to the end rail. Now you see a box with the ob and the pocket at opposite corners. No matter where the cue ball is, this box is always the same. The lines out from the rails to the ball guide your setup towards where the contact point is. Reducing the table to a box (or rectangle) where the ob and pocket are opposing is also a great way to "see" the angles for bank shots as well. St~~you can't hit, what you can't "see"~~
 
Stretch said:
Some very good points made in this thread. One thing that has become clear to me is that there seems to be as many aiming systems as teachers...odd? lol. It's important to keep in mind however that the only "good" system is the one that consistantly makes balls for YOU. Different shots also require different perspectives. For instance if your a 'look at the ob last' shooter and you find yourself jacked up for a shot, you might like to aim by the "spot in front of the cue ball method" to keep your head down. This realy works. Faith baby faith.

I'm familiar with lots of "systems" and i use them all because i find one more reliable than others for certain shots. In this game of infinite variations and possabilitys one size does not fit all.

Just to add to the plethora of systems (been dying to use that word) here's one i use for shots to any corner pocket. Here we go.....

I call it "The Box". It's so easy to visualize that it's realy hard to even miss the contact point. The ob is one corner of the box with an imaginary line to the side rail, and another imaginary line running to the end rail. Now you see a box with the ob and the pocket at opposite corners. No matter where the cue ball is, this box is always the same. The lines out from the rails to the ball guide your setup towards where the contact point is. Reducing the table to a box (or rectangle) where the ob and pocket are opposing is also a great way to "see" the angles for bank shots as well. St~~you can't hit, what you can't "see"~~


Hey Stretch...as a first time poster, glad you came on. That was quite good in all respects. Especially the part about knowing lots of "systems" and using them all because you find some more reliable on certain shots. I do also, but you can't do that if you don't KNOW lots of systems.

"You can't hit, what you can't see" is also right on the mark.
 
drivermaker said:
Joey...it was for reasons like this that your parents were always spanking your ass as a kid. ;)
So that is what is wrong with Joey???

Maybe he liked it too much :eek: :p :D :cool:

Thanks,

Jon
P.S. I know, I know -> :rolleyes:
 
Not everyone uses a an aiming system - that should be obvious. I am someone who doesn't use an aiming system (unless you want to call intuition a system, but that is rather contradictory to the definitions). Everyone has a shooting process, but this is a different thing to an aiming system.

Once I decide where I want to put the CB next, I get down and shoot the shot. I don't think about anything, I don't think about contact points, I don't think about any lines that. If I am having a good day - I don't miss any shots. If I am having a bad day, I miss a lot of shots. My intuition is clearly not very reliable :) I assume what is going on is that my memory remembers making shots and missing shots by shooting in various directions, and through time this has developed.

Think of the brilliant math student who looks at a question (for which there are many systems of solving) and spits out the answer.
"Johnny, how did you get 17?"
"I dunno. Seemed like 17."
"But what process did you use to get that?"
"I didn't use a process."
<Teacher getting exasperated> "Johhny, what were you thinking when you solved that question?"
"I was thinking '17'."

Is this child's intuition a system?
 
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Aiming

drivermaker said:
Hey Stretch...as a first time poster, glad you came on. That was quite good in all respects. Especially the part about knowing lots of "systems" and using them all because you find some more reliable on certain shots. I do also, but you can't do that if you don't KNOW lots of systems.

"You can't hit, what you can't see" is also right on the mark.

Thanks for the response Drivermaker. I welcome any and all feedback to my opinions. My only "expertise" is in that which works for me. It's funny, sometimes a word or a phrase will click and then what you thought you knew is cast in a different light. Then it all works!

It was like that for shots where i wanted to roll threw only a few inches or so. Rather than trying to concentrate on cueing here or there on the cue ball and figuring the speed and everything else, i just simplified it all down to a great little saying and MAN I got that shot down. It came to me quite by accident by just thinking of a phrase. I tell myself just before shooting. "This is a " stop shot with finesse". Or some I've told like "lazy stop shot"! If these phrases are on your mind as you shoot. You WILL get that little roll forward for that next ball. It's a great little shot for tight position. It plays on your strength at being able to make a stop shot from any distance ( position play 101). Your body just knows how to do it. Use that instinct now with the phrase "lazy stop shot" and presto! That little finish that you wanted. St~~simple is good~~
 
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