Could a B player run 100 balls on the world record table?
- Thread starter pw98
- Start date
No. Making the balls isn’t the hard part.
I say "no" also. There's no reason to take anything away from Jayson's run. I can't keep my concentration through a 50 ball run, that is some super-human stuff he did.
Its not just making the ball its the ability to cheat the pocket when you get out of position, Not to mention when the side pocket is huge how much easier to becomes to run balls. I would say that an average B player's high run would be twice as long on these tables for this reason. My high run of 41 balls (which I did years ago, I dont play straight pool at all and would definitely be able to do much better now on the same equipment) was ended right before a break shot because I got straight on a ball on a table you can't cheat the pocket on (and missed trying to cheat the pocket anyways). If it was a table like the world record table I probably would have gotten on the break ball and broken 50. The balls are also more likely to open up when they are all frozen with the template rack.
The template rack alone must decrease the difficulty of the run by AT LEAST 30 fargo points like it does for 9-ball ghost. Add in the new fast cloth and no humidity and super polished balls and easy cut pockets and it should really decrease the ability needed.
And this goes for John's record as well. Not just Jaysons. There is a reason these numbers being broken now and its not just because the players have gotten better....
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Large pockets will do little to nothing to help you get position for the break ball, make the break ball, successfully break up the rack, and continue the run for 7 consecutive racks. As others have pointed out, large pockets also have the side effect of making it more likely to scratch.
dendweller
Well-known member
I play as a B player in tournaments and I'm pretty sure I could get stuck behind a ball fairly quickly, maybe ball 12.
On the other hand, I kind of agree that this record really pertains more to the other players participating in this event, not every pro that's run a decent amount of balls.
You can't really compare a 61 shot at the CT TPCC and and one shot at Augusta National. That's why courses have ratings for difficulty in golf.
But Jason is the straightest shooter I ever saw and he's got some serious chops to keep that up for that long.
Not if you get straight on a ball on the head short rail that would have been playable for position if the pockets were 5 inches instead of 4.25....
If you actually read what I wrote, it says "little to nothing." The vast majority of runs don't end because "you get straight on a ball on the head short rail that would have been playable for position if the pockets were 5 inches instead of 4.25." They end because you get completely out of position altogether (not helped by large pockets) or scratch on the break (actually becomes more likely with large pockets).
I'm talking about all time high run here. Not just average run, I bet if you take a B player and put them on this table for a week vs your average table at a pool hall their high run will be significantly higher.
kanzzo
hobby player
someone running 290 on a diamond can ran a 600+ on an easy table. I think if you can regularly run 50 on a tough table (TDF 1.1 , something like a Diamond pro cut) you probably are a favorite to run 100 on an easy table with TDF of 0.84.
So it depends on the definition of a B player. I would say, that running 50 on a tough table puts you in A category. So does running 100 on an easy table.
So it depends on the definition of a B player. I would say, that running 50 on a tough table puts you in A category. So does running 100 on an easy table.
Two assumptions with the above.
- You have the chops to cheat a pocket effectively. Unless a pocket is 2.25" wide. You can cheat it. The amount of benefit from that "cheating" is relative to your ability not a measure of pocket size. Hell even your line of thinking in needing to cheat the pocket could be more relative to your success then the pocket size.
- You would manage to get to 41 again
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It just doesn't work like that. It's not enough. The pocket size isn't what makes straight pool hard. Look at his run - his end patterns got so consistent he routinely shot the same break shot at the same angle rack after rack, after rack, etc. It was truly amazing to watch.
The truth is his supreme pocketing ability coupled with what turned out to be very good pattern play resulted in an inhuman 51(!) racks. Sure, the big pockets helped, but they aren't the biggest factor in what got him there IMO.
kanzzo
hobby player
your high run of 41 years ago would make me believe that 60 is a reachable goal for you on an easy table. (I played lots of straight pool on both kinds of tables and saw other players perform. 41 is good B class.)
The reason I don't multiply it by two the way I did with bigger runs is, first rack counts much less. Like your weak opponent blasts the rack open and misses his break shot and you come to an open table with no two balls touching. This is the typical scenario how a B player gets to 28.
Then he kinda has to get very lucky to get to a makeable break shot, having the guts to play this shot with authority and ran another rack. And it's finish after 3 racks. So to get 3 racks you have to get lucky twice. For 70 it would be getting lucky 4 times. If you need 300 tries to get to 41 it's 90.000 tries to get to 70, so probably you won't do it in your lifetime, no matter how easy the table
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Completely agree. However I think this discussion is meant to be relative to lower level players. Not sure what an A player is.
Right - I should have completed the thought by saying "a B player probably doesn't have the skill set in either pocketing ability or control/pattern play to get them to 7 racks and 2 balls, no matter the pocket size."
I guess I could see a very fortunate B getting to 100 once, with a lot of things going right and nothing going wrong. But again, the pocket size will only be a factor and I don't think the predominant one in that scenario.
I consider myself a B player, ~550 Fargo and my high run on a Brunswick Gold Crown with standard 4.5" pockets is 48. I think generous pockets would really help me out in terms of being able to cheat position and get shallow angles to break out clusters or develop a break ball. I highly doubt I'd be able to get to 100 but I'd like to think it could get me over the line to 50!