Could You Tell in a Blind Test

TheBook

Ret Professional Goof Off
Silver Member
Take 20 to 30 cues that are constructed the same and all weight the same. They have the same wrap, taper, tip and tip size.
Each cue has a different type of joint and ferrule that are covered over with a film so you cannot tell if the joints are ivory, metal, etc and same with the ferrules. There would be wood to wood, piloted, fllat face, every type of joint with pin sizes and threads there are. Do you think that you could pick out the difference and end up with the combination that you think you prefer to play with? For example you may prefer a flat face phenolic joint a ivory ferrule. Do you think you could pick that combination out in a blind test?

What if you the combination turned out to be something completely different than what you thought you liked or are currently playing with; would you change to that combination?
 
is that like the coke and pepsi taste test thing?


Wow yo, what an omelete we got here yo. Word up.
 
Years ago I ran a wine tasting club in Phoenix. During the Summer, we'd do a blind beer tasting.

Guess what? No one could tell the difference between Bud, Coors, Miller, Schlitz, Olympia, etc. Lites vs. Lites. Regular vs. Regular.

Yes, some people guessed right, but no more the the normal odds of straight guessing.
 
TheBook said:
Take 20 to 30 cues that are constructed the same and all weight the same. They have the same wrap, taper, tip and tip size.
Each cue has a different type of joint and ferrule that are covered over with a film so you cannot tell if the joints are ivory, metal, etc and same with the ferrules. There would be wood to wood, piloted, fllat face, every type of joint with pin sizes and threads there are. Do you think that you could pick out the difference and end up with the combination that you think you prefer to play with? For example you may prefer a flat face phenolic joint a ivory ferrule. Do you think you could pick that combination out in a blind test?

What if you the combination turned out to be something completely different than what you thought you liked or are currently playing with; would you change to that combination?

Here is the text from a test that John McChesney performed a while back

Reprint:

Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules
covered with masking tape...then numbered.
No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a
Pete), nor
detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong
about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times.
A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition
and the cue
he liked the most during the attempts:
He thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an
older
Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he
shot with as a
cue with a steel joint.
Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound
differently;
may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ?
Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses:
Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not
the sound the
cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?)
Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound?
A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound?
I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from
another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)

To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the
reaction of the cueball
off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing
on how a cue
plays than anything else.
Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located
at the tip,
inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best:
Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different
numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints,
(one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13
1/4mm and
tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the
hit of these two cues:
more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
 
TheFish said:
is that like the coke and pepsi taste test thing?


Wow yo, what an omelete we got here yo. Word up.

Interesting that you would bring up the Pepsi / Coke thing.

I was told about a blindfold test involving Pepsi and 7 Up. My wife does not like 7 Up and will only drink Pepsi. With a blindfold on she had a hard time telling which was which. The only way she could tell was the smell from the fizzle.

This is a good bar bet or just a fun thing to do because the two are so different most people think that it is impossible not to pick the Pepsi from 7 Up. It is really difficult if you close your nostrils.
 
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Thanks Murray. The article was very interesting and proved what I thought might or should be be the answer. It seems as if right now plastic joints are in and steel joints are not too popular. I think it is just a fad and may swing the other way in a few years.

I have several different styles of cues and the feel is very slight among them. Unless the cue is very bad they all seem to feel and play good and the joint does not make it feel or do anything different.

The thing about the tip could be compared to putting new tires on a car. As soon as I drive out of the lot I can feel the difference the tires make on the car. I think this is the same with tips. Tips change the cue more than anything else.
 
'Lo, Murrray: Like your cue designs a lot (and your shaft tapers). The test results you cite interest me. I play with Petes by choice, but so what--I'm not a strong player. I do think that John McChesney made sense when he argued that tip hardness, shaft diameter and density, and shaft taper or stiffness are the big factors in "hit." What's your opinion on that?

AS
 
Hey guys ...

It's kind of like picking which woman feels 'right' for you. You want her to have a good joint, a strong dependable one, but it is the overall woman that counts, not just the joint .... lol
 
Snapshot9 said:
It's kind of like picking which woman feels 'right' for you. You want her to have a good joint, a strong dependable one, but it is the overall woman that counts, not just the joint .... lol


I don't think that I would want my woman to have a joint.
 
Qnut said:
That's because you advertised a beer tasting contest and then served


:p


4 beer salesmen were at a beer convention. They went out to lunch together. The first representing Bud ordered a Bud, the second from Miller ordered a Miller, the 3rd from Coors ordered a Coors, the 4th from Guinness ordered a Coke. The others looked and asked in puzzlement why a Coke. He responded that since they weren't drinking he wouldn't either.
 
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TheBook said:
I don't think that I would want my woman to have a joint.
I don't know about just one, but there can't be anything wrong with her being double-jointed. ;)
 
Why not?

TheBook said:
I don't think that I would want my woman to have a joint.



Puff-Puff-Give, Puff-Puff-Give. What's wrong with a little joint with your lady?
 
TheBook said:
Take 20 to 30 cues that are constructed the same and all weight the same. They have the same wrap, taper, tip and tip size.
Each cue has a different type of joint and ferrule that are covered over with a film so you cannot tell if the joints are ivory, metal, etc and same with the ferrules. There would be wood to wood, piloted, fllat face, every type of joint with pin sizes and threads there are. Do you think that you could pick out the difference and end up with the combination that you think you prefer to play with? For example you may prefer a flat face phenolic joint a ivory ferrule. Do you think you could pick that combination out in a blind test?

What if you the combination turned out to be something completely different than what you thought you liked or are currently playing with; would you change to that combination?


yes, it can easily be done. however you would have to do the following........

1...get people or players who know about cues and have played with all types of cues. remember,,not all pro players have played with different cues, so they would not be good judges. there was a similiar test conducted with rempe and loree jones in the 80's and they couldn't tell the diff. the conclusion by the tester was a false one because loree and rempe had played with meuccis throughout much of the time and couldn't tell one from another.

2...you have to narrow your test even further. you cannot mix and match ferrule and joint. only one at a time. again,,,that tester mixed the variables, i THINK.

also, a soft tip will mask a lot of the feel, particularly the ferrule. so you have to use a fairly hard/md hard tip.

other than that, it is easy for anyone used to different cue types. although cuemakers tend to lean towards a particular hit as well, so the tester would have to get used to a cuemaker's hit.

the only true and fair test, BECAUSE THE IDEA IS NOT TO TRICK A TESTER, if you want to find out if such variables can be distinguished,,,,would be to allow the tester to acclimate himself with all the cuemaker's cues before he agrees to the test. also, if you test with 20-30 cues all at once, then you mask the test with sheer numbers. 5 or 6 should be sufficient.
 
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Bruin70

The only reason that I brought this subject up is because there are a lot of players that are not professionals that spend a lot of money on cues chasing after a fad.

It seems as if the trend right now is leaning away from metal joints and toward the plastic type. I don't think any of this makes a difference in how the cue reacts or plays. Ivory is nice to have because it stays clean and looks nice but does it really do anything to help with consistancy or feel.

It would be interesting to get pros into a blind test just to see what combination they would pick out as being the one that feels the best to them. I would have them pick out the best 5 to get a better sample size.
 
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