Crazy amount of practice

livemusic said:
Yes, but I have known professional golfers and they do not practice like that week in week out. They do a little R&R. At least the ones I know. There are exceptions who play/practice as much as possible. But it goes back to what I said in the OP -- addiction. I am no expert, I just suspect that there might be an addiction type of brain thing going on with certain superstars. Then again, what do I know, not much. Tis just an interesting subject.

I suppose what I was thinking in the OP is that I have no doubt it takes that amount of practice/play in the "it takes 10,000 hours to master anything" time period. (Which is your teens and early 20s for any sport or endeavor.) But once you get to be world class... needing to practice that much... that is surprising... and the pro golfers I know kind of guided that thinking. I also know pro musicians such as guitarists and they don't practice that much. They practice a few hours but 8 hour days almost 7 days/week? I don't think so. And even in that profession, there might be exceptions. It would be interesting to find out how much Tommy Emmanuel practices. His skill level is other-worldly, just eye-popping skill.
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The 10,000 hour number has an interesting history. Ericsson has an explanation and IIRC in general that number was picked as much as it was calculated (it was age-limited at 18 I believe ... if you used 21 year old "masters" then the number might have been 14,200 or some not-round/remember-able number).

Here is a page that has practice efforts of some rather famous and talented musicians ... they practice a fair bit :

How many hours a day do the world’s greatest classical musicians practise?

Here’s how many hours it takes to be one of the world’s greatest classical virtuosos…
www.classicfm.com

Dave
 
DaveK said:
The 10,000 hour number has an interesting history. Ericsson has an explanation and IIRC in general that number was picked as much as it was calculated (it was age-limited at 18 I believe ... if you used 21 year old "masters" then the number might have been 14,200 or some not-round/remember-able number).

Here is a page that has practice efforts of some rather famous and talented musicians ... they practice a fair bit :

How many hours a day do the world’s greatest classical musicians practise?

Here’s how many hours it takes to be one of the world’s greatest classical virtuosos…
www.classicfm.com

Dave
Click to expand...

That is a great link, Dave! Can you imagine the dedication it takes to do ANYthing for that amount of time? I think that the ability to do that regularly for many, many years is what accounts for domination or at least being the big dog in any sport/endeavor. Meaning that a lot of people just burn out because it takes so much practice to stay top level. Very interesting subject!
 
livemusic said:
That is a great link, Dave! Can you imagine the dedication it takes to do ANYthing for that amount of time? I think that the ability to do that regularly for many, many years is what accounts for domination or at least being the big dog in any sport/endeavor. Meaning that a lot of people just burn out because it takes so much practice to stay top level. Very interesting subject!
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Yo Yo Ma playing Bach Cello Concerto #1 is a bonus ... turns out I frequently practice pool to Yo Yo playing Bach concertos for solo cello :)

Dave
 
livemusic said:
Yes, but I have known professional golfers and they do not practice like that week in week out. They do a little R&R. At least the ones I know. There are exceptions who play/practice as much as possible. But it goes back to what I said in the OP -- addiction. I am no expert, I just suspect that there might be an addiction type of brain thing going on with certain superstars. Then again, what do I know, not much. Tis just an interesting subject.

I suppose what I was thinking in the OP is that I have no doubt it takes that amount of practice/play in the "it takes 10,000 hours to master anything" time period. (Which is your teens and early 20s for any sport or endeavor.) But once you get to be world class... needing to practice that much... that is surprising... and the pro golfers I know kind of guided that thinking. I also know pro musicians such as guitarists and they don't practice that much. They practice a few hours but 8 hour days almost 7 days/week? I don't think so. And even in that profession, there might be exceptions. It would be interesting to find out how much Tommy Emmanuel practices. His skill level is other-worldly, just eye-popping skill.
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Shane isn’t your average pro. I think Shane falls into the category of “born to play” pool. I wouldn’t say it’s an addiction. I think he just loves the game, and does whatever he can to stay on top.
 
8intheside said:
Shane isn’t your average pro. I think Shane falls into the category of “born to play” pool. I wouldn’t say it’s an addiction. I think he just loves the game, and does whatever he can to stay on top.
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Your saying that hits home; I think Tommy Emmanuel, whom I mentioned in an earlier post, is that way. He seems to be genuinely PASSIONATE about what he does. I think he absolutely loves to practice. To me, he is one of the top (handful) of guitarists in the world. Now, he plays acoustic, not electric. For me, it's even more impressive, because he plays mostly solo.

I looked for one of the shorter videos of him with 'practice' as the subject, and here is one. He mentions practicing for strength and that is worth mentioning...


O/T mention -- If anyone plays guitar, here's a somewhat off topic treat... he has such a likeable demeanor...

 
Howdy All;

Took my time and did read through all of this. DaveK up in post #55 mentioned this;
" My understanding is that SVB's family is heavily involved with the game, no doubt an influence on him when young. Mosconi had his father and his father's poolroom. These advantages are real and when combined with focused practice and training the result is superior performance. These people were born into a good situation and have motivation and persistence, they were not born with the talent."

SVB's family, G'pa, G'Ma, Mom and whoever else were Champions in their own rights. Then along comes
young deaf Shane. How will he get along? How will he earn a living? Rapid City, SD. isn't exactly a booming
metropolis. hmmmmm, Ok, we'll teach him how to be the best pool player ... combine that with some good
pool genes and voilà! Shane has a survival system, survives and hopefully prospers. The rest as they say is
history. Much could be said about an Italian kid growing up in a South Philly grocery store.

hank
 
DaveK said:
Oops, the book above is not the one I meant to link ... bad googling and misremembering the author :( . While the above book could be very good, this is the one I read :


Dave
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"Peak Performance", by Stulberg and Magness, is also a very book. And so is "Bounce - The Myth of Talent and the Power of Practice", by Mathew Syed.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Most Pro Athletes work at their sport like it is a real job, not 5/15 minutes a day.

Because someone is waiting to take your spot, and will paying position.

Tiger Woods in his prime cold be described as a work-a-holic,
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Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant were famously workaholics as well.
 
DaveK said:
The 10,000 hour number has an interesting history. Ericsson has an explanation and IIRC in general that number was picked as much as it was calculated (it was age-limited at 18 I believe ... if you used 21 year old "masters" then the number might have been 14,200 or some not-round/remember-able number).

Here is a page that has practice efforts of some rather famous and talented musicians ... they practice a fair bit :

How many hours a day do the world’s greatest classical musicians practise?

Here’s how many hours it takes to be one of the world’s greatest classical virtuosos…
www.classicfm.com

Dave
Click to expand...

The best of the best practice diligently.

I read a post earlier where the poster said he knew some pro golfers, and they don't dedicate that much practice to golf. The thing is, there are average pro golfers, average pro pool players, average professional musicians, etc... and there are below average professionals and there are above average professionals.

The ones who become worldclass performers, the best of the best, are typically those who are more dedicated to practicing.
 
gypsy_soul said:
sounds good to me bud , your our first stop on this road trip !!!!
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In addition to the trick show and educational demo with magnets and DIY cue construction

A way to increase your pool aptitude is my latest promotion. Why show your true skill in a money match? This ruins your game at the next town.

Instead with my latest player assessment system (call it PAS) you can learn your opponents tendencies and abilities. Then exploit them against him, the result is your opponent thinking you got lucky and begs for more.

A player assessment system sounds simple but I have decades of educational experience to leverage.

Let me put it this way:
There are athletes that rely on specific skills like physicality. Then there are athletes that listen to coaches to exploit physicality. How the system works?

Find out when I go on the road. I plan to be in AC friday night and maybe sat morning of the Matchroom event.

Sadly no sales table are being offered, but say hi if you recognize me.
 
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justnum said:
In addition to the trick show and educational demo with magnets and DIY cue construction

...
Instead with my latest player assessment system (call it PAS) you can learn your opponents tendencies and abilities. Then exploit them against him, the result is your opponent thinking you got lucky and begs for more.

...
Find out when I go on the road. I plan to be in AC friday night and maybe sat morning of the Matchroom event.

Sadly no sales table are being offered, but say hi if you recognize me.
Click to expand...
If there are no sales tables provided, you could stand out front wearing a sandwich board and a colorful hat!
 
justnum said:
.....
A way to increase your pool aptitude is my latest promotion. Why show your true skill in a money match? This ruins your game at the next town.

Instead with my latest player assessment system (call it PAS) you can learn your opponents tendencies and abilities. Then exploit them against him, the result is your opponent thinking you got lucky and begs for more.

....
Click to expand...

Um....this has always been the standard hustling strategy. The only time you show your "true skill", better known as speed, is when you absolutely have to show it. And even then you make it look like you're playing over your head, stepping out of your boots, getting lucky or whatever.

Most of the time you're stalling, making just enough "mistakes" to keep your opponent on the hook, making it appear that you're winning because you're getting the better end of the rolls, not because you're a better player.

I'm sure there are plenty of great players probably still doing that in some parts of the world. They only gamble with weaker players, and they do quite well, consistently picking up a little chump change every night.

But it doesn't seem as common now as it was 30 years ago. I mean, it used to be that every little bar in town had a few players willing to play $2 to $5 a game. It was easy to scrape up $50 to $100 a night back then. Nowadays, around here anyway, many of those same places have empty pool tables about every night.
 
livemusic said:
Your saying that hits home; I think Tommy Emmanuel, whom I mentioned in an earlier post, is that way. He seems to be genuinely PASSIONATE about what he does. I think he absolutely loves to practice. To me, he is one of the top (handful) of guitarists in the world. Now, he plays acoustic, not electric. For me, it's even more impressive, because he plays mostly solo.

I looked for one of the shorter videos of him with 'practice' as the subject, and here is one. He mentions practicing for strength and that is worth mentioning...


O/T mention -- If anyone plays guitar, here's a somewhat off topic treat... he has such a likeable demeanor...

Click to expand...

Love Tommy Emmanuel!
Also love watching and listening to Lucas Imbiriba.

Of course none of this is pool related, but it sure as hell shows what dedicated practice can achieve. Check this guy out...

 
BC21 said:
Love Tommy Emmanuel!
Also love watching and listening to Lucas Imbiriba.

Of course none of this is pool related, but it sure as hell shows what dedicated practice can achieve. Check this guy out...

Click to expand...
that was unbelievably amazing
 
DaveK said:
The 10,000 hour number has an interesting history. Ericsson has an explanation and IIRC in general that number was picked as much as it was calculated (it was age-limited at 18 I believe ... if you used 21 year old "masters" then the number might have been 14,200 or some not-round/remember-able number).

Here is a page that has practice efforts of some rather famous and talented musicians ... they practice a fair bit :

How many hours a day do the world’s greatest classical musicians practise?

Here’s how many hours it takes to be one of the world’s greatest classical virtuosos…
www.classicfm.com

Dave
Click to expand...
segovia once said
if i dont practice for one day
i notice it
if i dont practice for 2 days
my wife notices it
if i dont practice for 3 days
the audience notices it
 
DaveK said:
The 10,000 hour number has an interesting history. Ericsson has an explanation and IIRC in general that number was picked as much as it was calculated (it was age-limited at 18 I believe ... if you used 21 year old "masters" then the number might have been 14,200 or some not-round/remember-able number).

<edit>

Dave
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I know .. replying to myself, but with something to add. The "10,000 hour rule" has never sat well with me, it seems contrived and simplified. Above I tried to recall what Ericsson said about the rule, and was not quite accurate. Below are pictures of a couple of pages from Peak ... consider them sample pages :) Hope this helps folks understand the relevance or irrelevance of the "10,000 hour rule":

Dave
 

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