Crazy Tournament Idea

[macguy]

Nothing good comes out of looking at the bad in everything because there is bad in everything. You minimize it but you will never completely control it.

If someone besmirches their name and reputation. You 1 let them know up front if they do it they wont be doing it again and you 2 handle it like you promised and you 3 dont cave in to negativity cause someone is afraid someone will spoil it. You spoil it for the spoilers and send them packing.

The idea that someone would line up 6 or 7 matches and get everyone to let them win ridiculously so they could win a $100 or so to me is just kind of laughable. Sure its a possibility so what do we do?

Do we get babysitters for grown men in the form of referees for a tournament that is supposed to be designed for goodwill and make a place some money? I dont think so what we end up doing is ........Nothing.....and Nothing gets done cause someone is afraid of their shadow.

Sorry but that's no way to live. Deal with the Dumbass that is brave enough to cheat, don't befriend people who cheat, but for certain don't fear people who cheat because they cheat themselves out of the joy of living, but they are not taking mine!

My main source of income is rental property. My early years was living in a hotel we owned. If I learned anything is was, never depend on people doing the right thing, "EVER". People like to say, "Most people are decent and honest". That is not true, it is the opposite. Most people are liars and dishonest if they can get away with it with few exceptions. If there are not rules anything will descend into chaos.

I mentioned that we had run a straight pool tournament as you described. What I neglected to mention was it was a failure. Our major mistake was not having people pay for the whole tournament.

We had people paying so much each match (Sort of like a league I guess)) and as it went on and as people got behind on the board looking like they were not going to be in the money they just quit.

The expected money we would have for the winners was not there and we had to just dissolve the tournament having the 4 remaining players of the original 30 players just play off in one day for what money there was.

 

[hang-the-9]

Hows this for a Tournament Idea:

You pick a date as a Start Date and a date as a close date.

During this time you allow people to come in an register and play as they want. They come in at popular times when people/players will be there and play matches. They have a scoresheet and you record wins and losses.

They pay their entry and they play as many matches with different people as they want.

You keep the wins/losses and score on a scoresheet set up for each player. At the end of the time period you assemble all of the scoresheets and you tally up the win/loss average.

You look at the win loss average vs how many matches were completed.

You have a minimum amount of matches you have to play in order to place lets say

8th thru 12th and those people have a shot at those spots

Say you play 4 matches....after...7 matches you have a shot at 7th thru 5th and after 10 matches you have a shot at 4th thru 1st.

This would keep the action going all weekend and all you would have to do is post up the scoresheets and call the people who placed for the winnings.

You could even have a sore losers bracket that would occur if a loser of lets say 12 thru 8 wanted to risk all of their winnings to challenge someone in a higher placement in the tournament. Which could go on the following Friday Night!

The tournament drags on and brings in more business!

Hows that sound for action!

Would you play?

There is actually a tournament in my area that is very similar.

The matches are scheduled between the players over several days when they can play, it's not the regular "walk into the building get your bracket and sit and play till someone wins".

The tournament is played in a private club with 3 GCIII tables so they stagger the matches and also make it convenient for the players since they can schedule and reserve a time slot to play.

 

[bdorman]

This is true if your only sole purpose is to cheat. :thumbup:

It's my job to look for weaknesses in a business plan. Weaknesses are never insurmountable; fix them and you've got a good plan.

Cheating has nothing to do with it. The "sole purpose" is to win. If someone games the system within the rules, did they cheat? Of course, gaming the system violates the "spirit" of the tournament, but it's the tournament's responsibility to develop rules that prohibit that.

Why get everyone to participate in a tournament when you run a good chance of someone gaming the system? They'll never play in another tournament, and you've failed in your primary objective (getting more people involved).

Regarding operating tournaments over a longer timeframe:

We run our community center tournaments in regular double elimination with brackets....but you and your opponent schedule your match for whenever it's convenient for you (but you have a 5-day time limit from your last match). With 16 players it usually takes us about 5-6 weeks to complete a tournament.

We've only got one table so you can't expect to run a 2- or 3-day tournament without everyone being there 24 hours a day for those days.

 

[336Robin]

Structure

It's my job to look for weaknesses in a business plan. Weaknesses are never insurmountable; fix them and you've got a good plan.

Cheating has nothing to do with it. The "sole purpose" is to win. If someone games the system within the rules, did they cheat? Of course, gaming the system violates the "spirit" of the tournament, but it's the tournament's responsibility to develop rules that prohibit that.

Why get everyone to participate in a tournament when you run a good chance of someone gaming the system? They'll never play in another tournament, and you've failed in your primary objective (getting more people involved).

Regarding operating tournaments over a longer timeframe:

We run our community center tournaments in regular double elimination with brackets....but you and your opponent schedule your match for whenever it's convenient for you (but you have a 5-day time limit from your last match). With 16 players it usually takes us about 5-6 weeks to complete a tournament.

We've only got one table so you can't expect to run a 2- or 3-day tournament without everyone being there 24 hours a day for those days.

Sounds like you use the Double Elimination format to structure around which is probably good because of the fact that people are familiar with it.

I have helped with a Modified Round Robin format tournament and really liked that format over Double Elimination the main problem with it is that they either take a lot of tables if its a large crowd...or its going to take awhile to finish.

A principle problem in those types of events is tie breakers. You are going to have to have a way to break ties and thats done by Matches, games and the it goes back to the contested match with the pools of players.

Neither one of the formats mentioned except mine required that a ref be present so why mine? I will answer that. Its because you dont have throng of people around. Likely that wouldnt matter either. There is a lot of dumping and splitting that goes on if a junior player beats a senior player. There isnt a referee in any case to stop that and it happens. So just because a new different format is suggested will neither prevent the dumping in Double Elimination nor any other malfeasance with any other format.

What this all proves to me is that unless there is absolutely no money involved that running a tournament period is a bad idea because of all the hater/cheater type mentality associated with anything that involves money. I don't mean that in a bad negative way. I think its a genuine problem surrounding tournaments period. There are no refs the people are cheating, no one is catching and that's just a fact, it happens so thats a problem to be dealt with.

There is a loss of goodwill and camaraderie which is what one would want for a Pool Culture and perhaps Ronnie O Sullivan is right, We are an eccentric bunch of kooks and maybe there shouldn't be money in the game because we only become deluded into thinking it can be a sport when we play it with a stick amongst people who cannot self regulate that might have been drinking and my goodness what might happen!

There will be no fun in Who-ville, what the Who's don't spoil it.

I'm not being facetious or acting as if my feelings are in the way. I'm thinking these are genuine findings. It might just be time to wake up and smell the Coffee on this.

We as pool players are a lot like spoiled children and to try and treat each other as adults is way too much to ask.

It would make a lot of sense actually if the House Ran the Tournament boards and the Tournaments we done for fun and business development. When you mix in money things get off the chain.

 

[railbird99]

There can be cheating in any format, but in double elimination the brackets are either random or seeded, so no one person is going to accomplish anything by "dumping" one match. The problem with your system is that since the players get to choose who they play, they can both dodge tough players, or a group of friends could all lose on purpose to one particular player in the group, and then he will win based off of win percentage. You can't win an entire double elimination tournament by "dumping".

Sounds like you use the Double Elimination format to structure around which is probably good because of the fact that people are familiar with it.

I have helped with a Modified Round Robin format tournament and really liked that format over Double Elimination the main problem with it is that they either take a lot of tables if its a large crowd...or its going to take awhile to finish.

A principle problem in those types of events is tie breakers. You are going to have to have a way to break ties and thats done by Matches, games and the it goes back to the contested match with the pools of players.

Neither one of the formats mentioned except mine required that a ref be present so why mine? I will answer that. Its because you dont have throng of people around. Likely that wouldnt matter either. There is a lot of dumping and splitting that goes on if a junior player beats a senior player. There isnt a referee in any case to stop that and it happens. So just because a new different format is suggested will neither prevent the dumping in Double Elimination nor any other malfeasance with any other format.

What this all proves to me is that unless there is absolutely no money involved that running a tournament period is a bad idea because of all the hater/cheater type mentality associated with anything that involves money. I don't mean that in a bad negative way. I think its a genuine problem surrounding tournaments period. There are no refs the people are cheating, no one is catching and that's just a fact, it happens so thats a problem to be dealt with.

There is a loss of goodwill and camaraderie which is what one would want for a Pool Culture and perhaps Ronnie O Sullivan is right, We are an eccentric bunch of kooks and maybe there shouldn't be money in the game because we only become deluded into thinking it can be a sport when we play it with a stick amongst people who cannot self regulate that might have been drinking and my goodness what might happen!

There will be no fun in Who-ville, what the Who's don't spoil it.

I'm not being facetious or acting as if my feelings are in the way. I'm thinking these are genuine findings. It might just be time to wake up and smell the Coffee on this.

We as pool players are a lot like spoiled children and to try and treat each other as adults is way too much to ask.

It would make a lot of sense actually if the House Ran the Tournament boards and the Tournaments we done for fun and business development. When you mix in money things get off the chain.

 

[Jaden]

Charge per match...

If the play takes place on tables in view of the bar and the match sheet are obtained from the house, people are in the know of who is playing who and what the spot is for a handicap. This wouldnt be a high dollar affair likely a $ 25 or $30 tournament for mostly fun which wouldnt promote a lot of cheating.

If you start getting some unrealistic results from some of the matches those will likely average out in the long term. I cant imagine that you wont find out if someone starts asking people to skew the games or matches won. If someone does that, you will find out and you dont let them back in ever and you state that much in the paperwork before it begins.

Its a small amount in the pot, its about having fun if people cross the line with it cut them off.

Charge like $5 per match played with $2 going to the house for green fees. The more matches you play the higher in the bracket you are guaranteed to get paid out, have a tiered bracket for the percentages of all proceeds to pool for the winners of those brackets, kind of like it was described. Shouldn't be too terribly difficult to calculate a feasible thing for everyone.

Set aside a certain number of tables available at certain times on certain days for the tourney.

Works out better for everyone cause the room owner gets people there on tables when there wouldn't necessarily be people using tables.

Jaden

 

[336Robin]

Format?

There is actually a tournament in my area that is very similar.

The matches are scheduled between the players over several days when they can play, it's not the regular "walk into the building get your bracket and sit and play till someone wins".

The tournament is played in a private club with 3 GCIII tables so they stagger the matches and also make it convenient for the players since they can schedule and reserve a time slot to play.

Is the format Double Elimination?

I admit I like a format that offers more than 2 matches which is why I liked multiple matches and version of the Modified Round Robin just let people play who they can find but I dont think that is going to work out as people are suggesting it wouldnt but if people had each others number they could be grouped into pools and you run those pools so that everyone plays everyone within the pool and pools would be done luck of the draw ...in the end the final two of a pool would advance to a finals that could be double or single elimination.

 

[bdorman]

Sounds like you use the Double Elimination format to structure around which is probably good because of the fact that people are familiar with it.

The reason we use a double elimination format is so all players feel like they have a chance to play multiple matches. No one wants to enter a tournament and then go One-and-Out.

The other advantage is that it is simple; even people who have never played in a tournament can understand it after one explanation and looking at the brackets. If I tried to explain the Round Robin format to our group, they'd run me out of town; they just want to play a friendly, competitive game of pool. They don't want to plan the Normandy Invasion and deal with dozens of If-Then scenarios.

 

[336Robin]

Double Elim...Nah

The reason we use a double elimination format is so all players feel like they have a chance to play multiple matches. No one wants to enter a tournament and then go One-and-Out.

The other advantage is that it is simple; even people who have never played in a tournament can understand it after one explanation and looking at the brackets. If I tried to explain the Round Robin format to our group, they'd run me out of town; they just want to play a friendly, competitive game of pool. They don't want to plan the Normandy Invasion and deal with dozens of If-Then scenarios.

I understand I wouldnt be interested at all if I couldnt figure out a way to get more than 2 matches out of it.

The best tournament Ive ever played was a Chip Tournament where you redraw after every round and you play who you get even if you play the same guy twice you just accept the draw you get. I liked that very much. Maybe that is a way to go do it a round at a time and dont go to the next round until the matches have been completed. You do a draw assign the matches you could even call the guys, email them, then they play and when all the score sheets are in you redraw and do it again and decide that everyone gets at least 4 matches or whatever number you want and make it simple.

If you lose three you are out of the finals. Only the finals could be held one day or you just put the names on double elim board and assign matches like you did before email or phone.

 

[buzzsaw]

I understand I wouldnt be interested at all if I couldnt figure out a way to get more than 2 matches out of it.

The best tournament Ive ever played was a Chip Tournament where you redraw after every round and you play who you get even if you play the same guy twice you just accept the draw you get. I liked that very much. Maybe that is a way to go do it a round at a time and dont go to the next round until the matches have been completed. You do a draw assign the matches you could even call the guys, email them, then they play and when all the score sheets are in you redraw and do it again and decide that everyone gets at least 4 matches or whatever number you want and make it simple.

If you lose three you are out of the finals. Only the finals could be held one day or you just put the names on double elim board and assign matches like you did before email or phone.

That's a format I could live with. If I knew who I had to play and we were given a short time frame to play the match that would be acceptable. Rescheduling would be minimized if allowed at all. You couldn't advance until you played your match.

 

[336Robin]

Thats the way Im leaning.

That's a format I could live with. If I knew who I had to play and we were given a short time frame to play the match that would be acceptable. Rescheduling would be minimized if allowed at all. You couldn't advance until you played your match.

I agree of all the tournaments Ive ever played, that is the best one yet. It gets you multiple matches..no 2 and out, likely you get to win a match or two.

I think something like that would be the ticket and you might could even make sure that the same people dont play the same ones more than once. I dont care so much about the time, just dont redraw until people finish a round. You can alway call the laggers and say hey guys....get with it this week so the rest of us can play.

like you said no endless rescheduling it shouldnt go over a week between receiving your match via email and playing it.

 

[APAPoolGirl]

I believe that is what we are playing already here in California and we all seem to like it! As a matter of fact there isn't even a score sheet to sign! You score your match using your pc or cell phone. Pick a roster join it pay your entry fee online or at the location you choose then you challenge the people you want to play when you want to play! We have been averaging 25 to 30 people per roster with excellent payouts and prizes. Bar owners are giving free table time when you check in for a match! www.propool.com is awesome!

 

[336Robin]

Thats interesting

I believe that is what we are playing already here in California and we all seem to like it! As a matter of fact there isn't even a score sheet to sign! You score your match using your pc or cell phone. Pick a roster join it pay your entry fee online or at the location you choose then you challenge the people you want to play when you want to play! We have been averaging 25 to 30 people per roster with excellent payouts and prizes. Bar owners are giving free table time when you check in for a match! www.propool.com is awesome!

Thats interesting I will have to check that out and see how that works.